Westward Sherry finish: do exclusive club bottles make sense?

Welcome And What We’re Pouring

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Star of the East Flake. Okay, so A Flake Tobacco. I don't think we've had this one on the podcast. No, and I don't think I've ever even heard of it. You probably haven't. Okay, so this is a secret. Okay. So uh as far as English blends go, this has always been considered Cornell and Deal's best English blend. This is their version of Penzance, basically, from what I've heard. Um and I've tried this, I've I've had it. It's really good English. It's been years since I've had it, but it is a really good English. I don't know how it stacks up against Penzance. I never smoked them back to back. I have smoked Penzance and I've smoked this. This is a really good English. Um, I've given this to people before and they've been like blown away. If as far as it's yeah, if you're an English drinker, yeah. So it is a flake. They do come with a ready rubbed version. This one is a flake. One half Cyprian latichea, so 50%. Yeah. With a generous portion of Izmir, which is an Oriental, and sweetened with stoved red Virginia. Okay. Pretty damn interesting. That sounds real good. Uh, this one, this particular one is from May of 2017. So we're we're about nine years-ish. Nine and a half years. Nine little over nine, yeah. Um, and uh

Star Of The East Flake Breakdown

SPEAKER_00 1:45

yeah, it's been a while since I've smoked this one, but I I want to try it with you guys. So hardcore English, and we're gonna be drinking.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Yeah, we're drinking Westward American single malt. It is uh finished in PX sherry casks, and this is an exclusive release for Westward Club members of 2026. It is a hundred-proof, and it's bottle 1838. 1838. Okay. So they do pump this stuff out. So, yeah, this is not like a super super limited thing or anything like that. But to get this bottle, you have to sign up to be a member of the club, which is free, it's free, free to do, but you have to put in your credit card info because they do they do charge it, and they're gonna send you a bottle, and they do this, I think, four times a year. Uh, they do announce it, but you kind of have to keep an eye out on it for it. And on my inbox, I get like a thousand emails from different whiskey brands, like look over every day, and so I just you know don't really pay attention to it. So they sent me this bottle, and it was just for that. So just for people that sign up for that. What the heck? So, yeah, that is what we are drinking today.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

And you said the sherry on this really comes out.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Yeah, this I this is a pretty uh the the finish is pretty strong.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Well, this would be interesting. I I so folks, I just got to smell this guy, and I

Westward PX Club Bottle Introduction

SPEAKER_02 3:06

uh hint of sweetness with a lot of backbone.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Wait until you smell this, Steve. This uh he's talking about the tobacco, everybody. Wait till you smell this. This is uh this is interesting, and I don't know if I've it's been a while since I've had it, but I'm thinking it's from the aging. This is quite uh it smells now. I'm there's ways you can do this, Nick. This is a very broken flake in here, and you could rub this out, and that might be the way to go. I'm kind of stuffing it.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

So broken flake, is this gonna be like Mississippi River is that a flake?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, broken flake like that, and I think that the moisture content's good on it, but the reason why I'm kind of stuffing it is because I think that when I hit certain chunks of this tobacco, it's gonna be like amazing. Like as the flame hits certain chunks, yeah, it's gonna be different. Okay, because it's you can see the different yeah, the different types of leaf in here. Well, you said this is 50% latichea.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

So if you're getting so if you happen to to light up a portion of that, like it might zapp you a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

It's gonna be zappy, yeah, exactly. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, and then all of a sudden you're gonna hit some red Virginia and it's gonna be, you know, so different for a second, and then all of a sudden you'll hit more latichea, and it's so we'll see. Um, I'm gonna pass this along. Boy, that smells, it smells so great out of out of the 10. I got this thing filled up. We haven't poured yet, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Uh I'm holding it mine right there, is yours for that. Single mall. So I might hate this. You might hate this.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Uh you you did say you're you're kind of getting it. I'm trying, I'm trying.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

But that so you have had a Westward before. So you've had something to shut out Westward before. Yeah. So not this one, but you've had Westward before.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Um, and you weren't a massive fan of it. Which bottle for you is this from them as far as this club thing goes? Is this isn't your first one? Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

This is the first thing we're doing. This is the first one. Oh, you quit after that. Yes, I will tell you, uh I'll explain the story as we go along. Um, but yeah, I opted out of the club after this bottle, uh, mainly because of cost. Okay. I could see that this this bottle, it is exclusive, which is really cool. Uh, but it was 110 bucks. Yeah. Uh and then after shipping to, I think it was like 120 by the time fish just shipping and everything happened. Um, so it's it's pretty pricey. And I for something you don't know about for something you don't know much about. I like Westward in general, so like I I knew I was gonna like the bottle. Uh, or like, you know, I would probably like at least the whiskey in it. But the finish on this, I I didn't like as much, at least not at the time. I haven't had this for a while, so we'll see if that changes. Very Scotch-esque with the PX Jerry. But how this works is you sign up on their on their website and it's free to sign up. Uh, you put in your credit card, and then they send you send you the bottle. But you have to uh, like I said, if you keep an eye on it to make sure you actually want it, and that's hard to do in an inbox like mine.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, so um one is it is I don't know, is it as hard to uh not have it as like something you ever signed up for something and it's like impossible to cancel?

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

They they like don't make it easy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Luckily, they did make it easy. It was easy, it's it was very easy to just go in and say, Yeah, never mind, um, kind of thing. And so that was good. I think uh what I had to do is I had to go in and change my credit card and I just deleted the credit card.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Oh, there you go. That's what I'm saying. That's that's the quickest way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

So I'm still technically a member, I think. But since I don't have a credit card on file, I'm not on the list anymore.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Like I used to do that with my intern all the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Because also they'd raise the prices. So I'd go in there, I'm I'm quitting, I'm getting another, and then they'd talk it down. No, no, I'm still I'm still going. Well, hold on, I can do this. It's like, well, you could have done that from the beginning, you know. So every year I'd have to call in and act like I was quitting to get like $20 off or something. And then when I actually did decide to quit, uh, because we were getting fiber, it was like they were like, no, no, no, no, we can do this price. And I'm like, I don't care about the price. I was like, I had to tell the person, I was like, it could be zero dollars, and I'm still changing because it's not fiber. Okay. Like, I'm getting fiber, that's the end of it. They finally relented, but it took a while. Like, it was not like they kept passing me out. Well, hold talk to my manager. It's like, well, hold on. I I don't want this damn service anymore. Period. The end.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Like, yeah, usually it anymore. If if if somebody calls me or if I want to do that, I just tell them I'm moving. I I always just tell them, or if if I'm in a store and somebody from ATT comes up to me and says, I already have ATT. I don't, but I'm gonna tell them that. I'm gonna tell them that.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Or I'm actually going to jail in three weeks for uh for fraud. Yeah, uh, so I'm enjoying my last few moments of freedom.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Whatever it was.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah, that's smart.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

I already have ATT. And here in Ohio, a big one was the uh the electric people, the people that come around for electric or something like that. I always tell them that I don't have AEP, I have NEP, which is a it's a thing that uh like a certain apartment complexes have it, and like they're not allowed to do anything with that because it's

Subscription Traps And Easy Cancellations

SPEAKER_03 8:20

like kind of the same thing. So like it was an immediate, you're no, you're it's impossible. Yeah, so then they'll they'll leave you alone.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

That's what I do if there's something I really don't care about donating about. Sometimes I'll say I already donated. It's a lie, that's totally a lie, but like they don't let it go sometimes. Yeah, you gotta get them, you gotta get them to move on. And some of that stuff, it's like I did donate through my taxes. Like I've already paid for that, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

I know this is already gonna be interesting for me to this is a harder pack than the other one was.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

You might want to rub it out. These are bigger pieces.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Oh, I just started shoving it in there. Yep. So uh I'm going off of your your your your kind of thumb spongy.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Honestly, it's uh it's the moisture on it's well enough. So far, it's behaving for me. It's just gonna take a little bit longer for your initial light. Once you get a good uh charcoal on the top, you'll be fine. Once you get that puck. You know what I mean? It's just a pack.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

For to for those of you that may have missed last episode, uh Nick is joining us for a for a pipe today. And so this is pipe number five for him.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Uh so he is uh Chris hasn't told me if it's a good pack or not. He just took it over. I was like, just tell me if it's good or not.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

He's packing, he's packing it a little bit tighter and he's throwing some more on top.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

I'm helping Nick out.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

He's trying to help me out. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

It's a trick for a newbie.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

I'm also trying to learn. So this is uh this is like a love-hate relationship with Chris. He showed me the very first one I had. He did show me how to do it. I make it look easy, don't I?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, this will be it. So I kind of rubbed out the top portion for you, so that should be like your kindling. It should be a little easier for you. Give that one a try there, Nick. Okay, okay, and then here, whatever you want to put the lid on it. There it is. I love the smell of that. Of the tobacco, yeah. Yeah, like unlit, you know, and again, it goes back to I haven't been smoking a lot of English blends. I've been kind of turned off by them, to be honest with you. But every now and and this is what I love about it, every now and then I do come across one that I'm like, oh damn, that's good. So it's not just English blends in general. I think I just had I just overdid it, but there's still some out there that are just the cream of the crop, like they're just still good. You know what I mean? And that's a good thing because I there for a minute I thought, man, I don't think I can smoke this stuff anymore.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

You know, for me, Englishes are always a favorite, but there's a lot of duds out there too.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

There is so it's well, they they run together, yeah. They run together, they're very similar. I was telling Nick before we started recording that a lot of English blends are it's kind of like space-ide scotch, yeah. It's not bad, but they do they really vary that much? They I mean they do, but that much, you know, they're all space hides, you know. I mean, like they're pretty much the same flavors, and that you get that a lot with English blends, but every now and then this one's elevated so far. I haven't gotten it going going, but I it's uh it's a it's a pretty potent English, yeah. I think Ryan would love

Packing A Pipe And First Impressions

SPEAKER_00 11:20

this.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Oh, I think so too. Uh so for our bottle, Westworld, they started in 2004, expanded pretty heavily in 2015, so got a lot bigger there, and then in 2018, uh Distill Ventures invested in Westward, which is owned by Diageo. Oh, so they are not owned by Diageo, but they're invested heavily by Diageo. By Diaggio. I feel like we talked about this and how weird that they have a stake in the exactly. So so I would not be surprised if in the future Diaggio were to purchase Westward because of that. They got skin in the game already. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Now, Westbird is primarily an American single mall. It's all American, right? It's all American single malls. Yes. They don't make anything other than anything else, but they make all their stuff at their own place.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Oh yep, and they're in Oregon, they're in Portland, Oregon. Uh so and there's definitely a regionality to American single malt, like Virginia American single malt and Pacific Northwest American single malt do taste different. There is like a difference in regionality with it. Well, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

I'm not hating it.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

You know what's interesting? I didn't think you would. Because you know what it reminds me of? Iron Vault. It's got that Iron Vault esque. And I don't know if it's the style of American single malt iron vault went with, because there is, it's very regional. Uh, but this is um, and it could be in my head. I feel like Oregon out west, American single malts tend to be more wet than floral. I feel like Virginia, like East Coast is more floral than kind of wet.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

I think I would agree with that. I think East Coast stuff is more floral. When you get into the middle, like like talking about um uh Cedar Ridge there in Iowa, it's more uh you get a lot more citrus notes. And then when you go out west, it is almost like it's just the barley. It's just it's just heavy on like just kind of uh I I like the idea of wet, like that does remind like wet leaves and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, I'm really not hating this. Good.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

It tastes very wine, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Less sherry, more wine. I mean, sherry is white wine, but uh it's it's not as sherry as I thought. It's more wine, dry wine. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

It is a drier wine.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Did you try it before you lit?

SPEAKER_04 13:55

I'm wondering. I might have screwed myself there.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

No, I I don't know that you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Because it's going really well. I like it, but uh, how much is the pipe helping it along?

SPEAKER_03 14:04

I don't know. I'm thinking back to when I originally got this bottle. I was not a fan of it. I thought the sherry was way too strong. But now, this time, the sherry, and I think it might be the pipe, and your smoke, the smokiness, the smoking on the pipe is very it's helping it a lot. I think that this is a very good pairing. Pairing the pairing is good. I think that's helping it a lot. I don't, I I also did not take a drink before I lit. So, and that was a mistake.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

So, we have to just buckle in for an experience because I can't say how much of this whole that what we're gonna say from here on out is gonna be the mixture of the two of these things together.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Yeah, so here's the weird thing, yeah, Nick.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

But it is really the smokiness.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

I know you don't like eating sweet barbecue. Yeah, this is the the the pairing of the two together, the the single mole and the tobacco, is sweet barbecue. You got a little bit of that sweetness, but you've got you've got a lot of that smoke.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

I like to drink stuff that's like that. I don't like to eat stuff that's like that. You know what I mean? And this together is very much that sweet, like I like LaFro LaFroig way better than Lagervolin. And Lager Volin's less sweet and more savory. Right. And that's the way I like to eat it. And this but I like to drink the sweet, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Pulled pork with sweet barbecue sauce to it.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

It is kind of sugar to the pulled pork and smoky, and I'm loving it. I would hate that if that was food. I well, I wouldn't hate it. It's just not my favorite, right? It's not my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

On its own, this American single malt does remind me of that Iron Vault-esque flavor.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah, no, I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Yeah, but together it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I will say this drink, this whiskey, this pour without the smoke would be less for me. Yeah, way less. But this like and I actually what's funny is like if you hadn't told me that was this, I mean, I would be able to figure it out. But if it wasn't, if I didn't know it was the pipe, I would think it was the drink because that smoke is coming off though, it's almost like coming off like it's in the whiskey, but I bet it's not at all.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Yeah, I didn't get a lot of smoke off of it the first time I had it. Um now I'll counter a little bit with the iron volt stuff in that the iron vault, it might have a similar like mouthfeel sort of thing to it, but iron vaults is very citrusy, it has a pretty strong citrus that's not in this, and it wasn't sweet like this, um, but not not that sweet. Yeah, yeah. But this, that sherry, really adds a ton of sweetness. But you're right, it gives it a lot of barbecue kind of notes to it.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

It's that kind of sweetness, and it's uh it's more of uh dry wine, it's less sherry than I would have thought. If you had told me this was more of a of a red wine or like a Merlot, even or something like that, I would have been like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Sherry? I'm I was expecting, you know, not not this dry. And I love it. I love the way it's playing. The dry kind of sweet wine with this campfire barbecue-y kind of smoke is really good. And what's interesting is either it's not in there or I'm missing it. But that thing I don't like about American single malts, I'm not picking it up. I don't think it's in there. It's not hitting me at all.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

I don't I don't think it's in there to begin with.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I I think that might be the finish. So that might be so you might like more American single malts with a finish.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Because it kind of masks finish might kind of mask that aftertaste. But the right finish, I don't think you like the stout cask finish. That's true. You did not like the stout cask finish. So I think the right finish might do American single malt justice in your mind, depending on what the finish is.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Okay. I don't remember what our ratings were because that was one of them that we did when I brought in like the four or five different American single malts. Um, I know both of you liked the Jim Beam one the best. That was your number one. But that one is more bready, more bourbon y. Right. Exactly. Uh, I don't remember where this one was on your guys' list on it, to how much you liked it. I want to say it was towards the bottom, though.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Uh, not for me. I I like I did like the Westworld. The the kicker for me, and probably maybe why it was at the bottom was the price tag because Westward isn't it's even outside of this like club aspect, it's expensive. I mean, we're talking 80, 90 bucks minimum.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yeah, all of the most of the companies that are American single malt exclusive, so like Virginia, DeSilco, Westward, those guys, both all of them tend to be a little bit on the pricier side, just in general.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

But if you're into that, I don't think that they they're too bad because we've talked about scotches being if you're in a scotch, they're more expensive. You know what I mean? You're getting a little bit more whiskey uh as far as quality goes. I mean, American single malts are just that. Like they're you already know you're gonna get more quality than you know, yeah, a regular straight bourbon or whatever. Some not always, but for the most part, you know there's just no junk American single malts out there. Yeah, whether you like them or not, it's a different story. But they're not junk, like there's whoever put those together put time and effort and energy into that.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Yeah, it was pretty short-lived, but there for a little bit, every craft distillery had in American single malts. And it was because I think it was easy to get the easiest thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

And it was becoming a big thing where, like, what is American single malt?

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Exactly. It was before it was set in stone if I remember right.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

It didn't you know turn out like what we thought.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Everybody thought it was gonna be the thing, and it didn't become it really didn't. So American Singamalt is one of those, it was a bubble, like it was flash in the pan. It was a flash, and it never really took off. Like there are people that are doing it, but it's not becoming like a now it's for dedicated fans of it. Exactly. You have to be a fan of American Singamole to pick it up, and even like here in Ohio, there's there's hardly any of them that are left that are available in Ohio. Very expensive, and even like the ones like the uh bear fight was one of them that I had that was was that out of Canada for some reason. I think it's out of no, it was it was in it was Kentucky, I think, but I'm not positive on that. Uh, but it was very lemony, like it was very hard, heavy, heavy citrus. Um, but now it's no longer available in Ohio, but they we do have their bourbon, so their bourbon is available now, but the American single malt is gone.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

I feel like Bear Fight was the one I tried year like

American Single Malt Regional Flavor Talk

SPEAKER_02 20:10

oh gosh, three, four years ago now that did a mushroom whiskey. They might have. They're weird. They're a weird company. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking Canadian. I was like, why did I think Canadian for American single malt? That doesn't make any sense. But I think they did like a mushroom something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

It's a hunter proof. It's not failing in the proof department. It's not, it's actually like appropriate.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

It is, yeah. It is, I think it's proofed appropriately. I think if it was any lower, it'd be too watery, it wouldn't have the punch it needs. And if it went over, it would it would hit you too hard.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I think you'd lose some flavor a little bit. Like it would be, yeah. And I will say this for the tobacco, uh, as far as um, you know, putting this up against Penzance, I'm not gonna go back and forth on the flavors of the two and compare those because I think they are different. They're similar, but they're different. But I tell you what is similar between this and Penzance, and I think this is probably the correlation that people make. They're both very satiating tobaccos. And I've had a lot of English blends that weren't satiating, um, as far as like satisfying goes. This is a very satisfying smoke. And especially for an English, it's just check it checks all the boxes and it's uh it's a full meal. It's heavy enough that like by the time you're done with the bowl, you're not gonna be, you know, wanting more. Right. You might want another bowl, but you but what I'm saying is it's not gonna leave you. There are Englishes out there that are kind of hollow. Yeah, this isn't that, this is a full English, yeah, and that is very similar to how Penzance's it's a very satiating smoke.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

I will say, for me, I had a bit of a hell scare like a month and a half ago or so. So because of that, I haven't been drinking or smoking at all. So, like this is the first night that I'm drinking and smoking in a long time. So, because of this English hitting me real hard. Yeah, like it's I'm feeling the nicotine. And the flavor, probably, too, is probably the flavor is pretty strong. Now, I love that flavor. I love Englishes and I love Latikia. So, like this, it's a good feeling, but it's hitting me really hard. And it's just because it's been such a long time since I've smoked.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Sometimes it's nice to take a break because it is kind of nice to be reminded that hey, this stuff is we're we're big boys, you know. Like this, we are doing stuff we didn't get to do as kids, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Right, yeah, because Englishes do they can hit kind of hard, especially, especially with the highlight with the high lanachia. Uh, because there's just high nicotine in that. So it just kind of quality of that. Yeah, which is so interesting because I don't get that. You don't, it might come later, uh, but depending on how much you smoke too.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, and how much you're actually smoking of it. But I told Nick this because you know how he he was very worried about like, hey, is this stuff gonna make me sick? Said, dude, if you can sit in there while me and Ron, especially when Ryan's here, me, Ryan, and Steve are smoking for hours and you're in the room, you're smoking the same amount we are. 100%. Like you are getting all the nicotine that has wrong. Yeah, there's no, I was like, there's no way you probably have a whole tolerance buildup.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

I think it's even been to a point where like Chris has smoked pipes or cigars in my car with the windows up. Like it doesn't bother me.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Like, I was like, it's a middle thing for you at this point. Like, you're not gonna get sick. I don't know the higher tolerance in most people.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

It's never bothered me for the nicotine side effect. Yeah. I I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

That's all. Well, you said you said when you smoked previously, it got your stomach pretty good. Yeah, it made you green the nicotine. Yeah, that's it. That was the nicotine fails.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

So yeah, it's it's uh people get s if you get sick from nicotine, it can last for days. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

If you get sick so maybe I'm I I just built up a tolerance for you totally built up, slowly built up a tolerance.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

I don't think you're I don't think slowly secondhand smoke. I don't think I don't think you'd have any problem now.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

I think if anything else, you're proving that second-hand smoke is real.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Yeah. I think that that is but I'm also hot boxing things.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Well, I told him that. I said, Look, if we were smoking weed the way we're smoking pipes and you were in the room, you tell me you wouldn't be high,

Why This English Blend Satisfies

SPEAKER_00 24:10

and he goes, Well, I'd be high. I was like, Exactly. So you're getting the same amount of nicotine we all are, dude. Like it's I was like, You'd you're you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

This is gonna sound really strange, possibly, but this this maybe the combination or maybe just the tobacco brought me back to uh like a childhood memory. We used to go on like cruises as a family, like like summertime cruises. I don't know if we ever went winter time, but it was always summertime. But if you've ever been on a cruise, there's this like smell or flavor that you get on the cruise just walking around. It it's kind of stale air air, kind of like an airplane.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

But like I've never been on a cruise, so I have no idea what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

I don't I haven't either, but I'm excited to.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

And then you get into this like the dining area, and if you can imagine is it stale air like an airplane, stale air? Because that there's stale air on an airplane.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah, so imagine this tobacco smoke, yeah, and that's what it reminds it's almost like I don't want to say potpourri, but like imagine going to dinner, like a fancy dinner, every every old lady's wearing perfume, and everyone's wearing cologne, and we're all dressed up. I get what you're saying. You're sitting strong smells, you're sitting in this enclosed dining area that might be like three floors tall, but there's there's like a cutout in between in the middle, and you've got hundreds of people in there at the same time. That that all that aroma, all that like popo concentrated, yeah, yeah, that cologne, that potpourri kind of feel that smell, and you're like, I don't know that I hate this, but I don't know that this will be my go-to. See what I but it builds up this like memory of like you know, like that was a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

What I get, especially with English blends, and again, it's a memory that if you've never been through this, you wouldn't know. But if you've ever been in an old church, yes, that's what I mean. There was incense, like an old Catholic church, a mass or something, and there was incense being used, especially. Um, it's and it's the mixture of the old faint, like it was been here for years, so it's like already here lingering, mixed with the new, because we're doing it again today, kind of a deal. You're smelling the old incense and the new incense today, along with all the other smells in the chapel. That's what I always get with you. You know what's interesting? Very, very incensey.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

What you just described was a as a cruise ship for dinner. Yeah, because you got the old potpourri people and the new age. I can see that. I can't I can't smell like potpourri, and then you got new food, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

You got it all just combined in one the ghosts of past and present.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah, it's all together. Uh, I I don't know that I love cruise ships. Um because thinking back at it, the memories remind me of Titanic.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

I always think of the movie Ghost Ship.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Remember that I never saw a ghost ship.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Never saw ghost Nick. Did you see Ghost Ship? I don't even know what you're talking about. Oh my gosh, you guys are missing out. Okay. Ghost ship. I don't want to ruin it. But it's kind of a horror suspense psychological thriller kind of thing. But imagine without ruining it, imagine there's a ship.

unknown 27:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Oh, there goes a ship.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

A cruise ship. Some bad stuff happened and everybody died. Okay. Then these treasure hunters come along and find this random ship. They get on board. Some weird shit starts happening. And at the end, there's another twist. Imagine that. And it shows flashbacks of when it happened, and it was like the 50s. So 50s cruise ship, people getting slaughtered, kind of like in interesting ways. That sounds weird, but like you get what I'm saying. Like horror style, and the music and the signs and the scene and the sound, the sounds, and the sights and everything. It's really cool. 50. Then it's like monitored. Like, and when I say monitored, it's like early 2000s. And they're like going through, and there's like weird stuff happening in ghosts, ghost ship. Dude, it's really good. You guys have to watch this. It's really good. Once you watch it, you're gonna be like, oh, that's a damn good horror myth. Like horror flick. Yeah. And the ending is kind of it's one of those endings that you're like, no way, no, you know, right at the end. It's really good. Yeah. And it's uh, it's one you watch more than once, like you watch it a couple times, and there's some parts in there that people will reference because it's just it was one of those movies. It came out, I want to say early 2000s, 2004, maybe something like that. I don't know. Some somewhere around there. Good movie, good soundtrack, okay, some rock music in it, but also some like it's just good. You guys gotta watch it. Don't forget, like zombie kind of ghost ship? No, no, no. Ghost ship like ghosts on a ship and murderers, and people that were murdered, and people trying to some of the ghosts are trying to help out these people, and some of the ghosts might be bad, they might be, they might have ulterior motives. Don't want to ruin it, not gonna ruin it.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Is it like the shining kind of ghost?

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Kind of like the shining on a ship. It's very much like the shining on a ship. You will get shining vibes.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

That's what they should have called it. Shining on a ship on on age 2002 when it came out.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

I was close. Dude, I remember when it came out. It was a good, it's a good movie.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

You guys are gonna enjoy this.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

I will say it with any kind of an English, I usually imagine suits. This is a it's a city tobacco. Yeah, fancy, yeah, it's fancy, sophisticated city tobacco. It's not a front porch in the country kind of tobacco for me, usually. Uh, but just I don't know if that's a lot of key in it that makes it more pungent or what, but just English buns in general are more of a city feel to me.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

What about cigars? And that, and that hurts uh my heart a little bit because my uh favorite blend, and I did never bought a ton of it, and I should have, and I didn't, but from McClelland, okay. Frog Morton, everybody knows. Yep, they had one version called Frog Morton on the Town. Yeah, okay. And it had some different stuff in it, which is what made it

Scent Memories From Smoke And Spaces

SPEAKER_00 30:00

different. But the picture, you know how it was very picturesque, but it's got the frog, and he's in a fancy suit with a top hat and a cane, and he's standing out there, and it reminds you of like a Louisiana summer night, but in a fancy part of New Orleans, and he's like maybe at a at an opera or something, right? And it's very fancy, and that's what it was. It's an English blend, but it was a kind of a fancy English blend, and it was from the Clinton, so you can imagine it was amazing. This stuff was so different, and it was so different from their other lineup, but it was an English blend, it was quality quality. It was out of all the Frog Mortons, it was the sophisticated, like what you're talking about top hat and gloves, kind of a night on the town, on the town, right? Frogmorton on the town, and it hurts my heart because they don't have that anymore. And then also nobody's tried to recreate that blend. Frog Morton, they've tried to recreate somewhat, but the on the town specifically, no, they haven't recreated it. And it's sucks because I love that stuff, dude. But it that that always reminds me of the same what you were saying. English blends are sophisticated. I I've never thought about sitting on a back porch with a Latikia blend like that and being kind of like, you know, it's not a country blend, that's a burly, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 31:14

That's uh that's uh so how do you what do you guys categorize or think of for like cigars? Because I think like this with a cigar, but I don't imagine wearing suits with a cigar.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

So I think it depends on the type. I know very little about cigars, but what I do know is like if I'm smoking in Connecticut, like a light, uh a light colored cigar, that one that one is usually more country-esque to me. Uh and I feel like the darker it gets, the more city it gets. I don't know if that's true or not.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

I don't know. I I think it could go either way because there's actually some really um crazy expensive, you know, Connecticut's out there. And I and I think you do get actually Connecticut's are one of those things that in my opinion you can be a country general. It's kind of like a light coffee. Those can be, you know, kind of high-end. Um, or hell, Buffalo Trace type type stuff. You know what I mean? We're talking a lighter bourbon, a sweeter bourbon, a uh, you know, uh weeded bourbon can be I mean, hell, Pappy Van Winkle, right? Is supposedly like, you know, that's not a front porch whiskey either. You know what I mean? That's a very light bourbon. So that could be like a Connecticut. You get what I'm saying? So I I think when it comes to cigars, cigars and are real cigars are inherently uh high class. You know, I think if you were talking about somebody using tobacco on a, you know, in a rustic setting, you're talking about somebody either roll roll your roll your own or chewing tobacco, or maybe like a you know, like a Clint Eastwood style, like a backwood cigar, right? But like when you're talking like an actual cigar with the cigar cutter and the cigar lighter, you're already talking about somebody who's a little bit more sophisticated.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yeah. If if cigars get rustic, for me, it's usually military. Military, okay. I think so. Like I think of MASH, Colonel Potter, yeah, had his cigars. Or Top Gun. Or yeah, Top Gun. Yeah. So like in MASH, there's a scene where uh Colonel Potter has a cigar and he lets radar take a take a little puff of it. And radar is your your innocent little little kid kind of character. And so you know he gets sick from it or whatever. I don't want this. And so Colonel Potter's, are you sick? No, okay. And then he tooks it back and puts it in his pocket to to finish off later on, kind of thing. So it can be a working cigar. But that's more like a busher suite kind of like a machine cigar. It was a thick cigar, it was a big cigar, but it wasn't uh, but it didn't have any like it was definitely one that he probably bit off the end.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Wasn't a Churchill.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, like when you think Winston Winston Churchill, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Yeah, he would bite off the end. He doesn't have a cut, he doesn't have a cutter. Yeah, it's like Clint Eastwood would he's gonna rip it off. Yeah, you bite off the end, yeah. It could go either way. You're right. It can go either way. But usually, if I'm thinking of it in like a working class sort of thing, it's usually a military military, that other blue caller kind of a butt.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Usually uh, you know, when you get other other than military, you're right. It is a little bit more roll your own or chewing tobacco, kind of a deal. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, but even cigarettes can be sophisticated. When here's the big difference between a sophisticated cigarette and a non-sophisticated cigarette. And it's as simple as this the fancy cigarette case. The case. Yep. You pull out of a case and you do the whole pop pop, and then you somebody uses a fancy lighter to light it for you. All of a sudden, that cigarette looks like it's worth $30,000. You know what I mean? Versus like if you take something out of, you know, an American spirit out of a front pocket and you use a crappy bic lighter. Same thing, but two different situations make it look, you know, a cigarette holder's another one. Like, like you see people like a fancy freaking breakfast at Timphidy's, you know, and they're smoking cigarettes, versus like, you know, pulling it out of a front uh, you know, but then also like you have somewhere in the middle, like mad men, he's in a nice suit, pulls out a cigarette. That's kind of a working man cigarette. So it just depends. It's more about the situation and less about the actual item.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

It's the situation and also the accessories, yeah. Accessories and presentation, it's how you do it, exactly. So, like the the cigar itself could be in three or four different places, but if you bite off the end, you're in the military. If you have a fancy cutter and a nice, a nice lighter, then you're you're in a ballroom. And so it just depends. It's all about the accessories, the accessories, and so I think those and those match the environment in whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

It's like manners maketh man.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Where's that from?

SPEAKER_00 35:43

That's from uh Kingsman. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Okay, I was like, that is that from somewhere else. Did they steal that from somewhere else? Mary and I are big fans of of uh Kingsman. Yeah, it's a great series. The whole series, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

It's a great series, yeah. But I will say, what's interesting now that you bring that up, Steve, is I would say pipes are inherently already fancy. Unless you're talking about a corn cob and a bic, even matches can be fancy. Absolutely the way that it looks, and most pipes are a little bit more ordinant. Even a corn cob. They they're a little bit more like ornamental looking. Um yeah, you're right. Even a corncob could look could, but that's more MacArthur. All of a sudden, I'm thinking like more military or backwoods, like you know what I mean. But any real pipe and a pipe lighter, all of a sudden, like that it really depends on what you're dressed in. All of a sudden, I mean you can go all the way up or you can go all the way back down. You could be in a um, you could have the same pipe, maybe not the same lighter, but you could either be in um overalls or a freaking fancy three-piece suit, and you could still be smoking a pipe and it fits both situations. That's interesting. So pipes might kind of transcend a little bit uh as far as accessories go. Because you could smoke a pipe with

Cigars Pipes And The Power Of Accessories

SPEAKER_00 37:00

matches and be in a three-piece suit, and people would find that completely normal. And you could all go all the way down to freaking overalls and do the same thing. But I don't think you could sit in a three-piece suit and smoke a corn cup. It's gotta be a pipe. It's gotta be a pipe.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Going along with pipes and maybe the bottle at the same time. As as uh someone that's fifth time smoking a pipe. Where would you line up this tobacco with newbie to experienced?

SPEAKER_03 37:33

I I would put this with more experienced, uh, only because of the the amount of lady key in it. It's it tends to be a more robust kind of smoke that could scare off a newbie. Uh when you say robust, I mean like the nicotine content, full flavored, like I can feel it in my mouth uh a lot more, even after I'm done smoking. It has a little bit almost like a finish in in smoke. So it sticks around a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Um, yeah, I would say uh English blends in general are not for novices. Yeah, because the first time you smoke an English, the I've given English blends to new pipe smokers before, and they'll tell me the next day, like, gosh, man, my I woke up this morning and I could taste that. Like it lingers with you. If you smoke an English blend for breakfast, it will you'll have it the rest of the day. Even if you brush your teeth. I mean, maybe if you brush your teeth and change your clothes and take a shower, it's gone. But for the most part, it lingers with you. I appreciate that. But as a new person, getting into smoking pipes for the first time, that's not something you might appreciate. And and like you said, and and that just goes to show you how much of a knockout flavor it is. It might be too much. I think it's too much for most new smokers. Now, a lot of people will start new smokers with an aromatic. That's also a mistake. I agree. Yeah, that's also a mistake. I just think that an English is too much too soon. Um something, something like a Virginia would be, I think, a right. But not a straight Virginia because then that's too temperamental. So I really think like a blend is the way to go. Um, and you can have a blend with a little bit of Cavendish in it. Just it shouldn't be dominated because then you're gonna have a hot because new new guys are gonna smoke hotter than they should. And you don't want you the last thing you want a new guy to have is tongue bite, because then they're gonna get turned off real quick. And most of the time, a Cavendish is gonna be harder to keep lit, so it's more temperamental. I really think an old classic blend. My go-to is Carter Hall. I talk about this for like a lot of different things, but for a new smoker, that's the best thing. It's a little bit of a harder blend, like you're gonna feel it. You are gonna feel it. The nicotine's there. If you really don't want it, you can maybe go Prince Albert or something like that. But they're kind of similar. But it's a burly-based blend, it's got some good flavor to it, you're actually gonna taste the flavor. It smells decent for a room note, it stays lit, it's cheap, it checks all the boxes. And I think if people that are looking to get into pipe smoking for the first time can smoke Carter Hall and appreciate it, and you get your feet wet with that, you're actually gonna be in a really good solid foundation to go from there.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

And if you can't, then you're not a pipe smoker. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

I will say, like, Nick, I would not be surprised if your stomach is a little queasy tomorrow because of this. Yeah. Or at least taste it in your mouth. And I will say it it'll be because of this one, not the last one.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Well, okay, so where does Mississippi River lie with this?

SPEAKER_03 40:28

I don't remember the it's in English. It's it's close, okay. It's not this full flavored. I was gonna say it still has a decent amount of latiquia, though, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean I don't know how much of that is.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

I had to add maybe a bowl of that.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

I mean he's also taking it easy. He's not burning his tongue on me.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Sure, exactly. But when you mentioned you're gonna feel like taste it the next day, I can understand that from Mississippi River, but Mississippi River is more of a uh to the novice, it is an unpleasant next day taste. It is sour, it it it it's it's like really bad sour bread, sourdough bread.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

And you might have that tomorrow with this.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

But I don't get that same feeling that I got with that that I do with this, like with smoking it. It's not the same like sour kind of feel. And I I don't want to say that Mississippi River is sour, but but it does, it's it's very different.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

I think it's an English in general, and I think that tomorrow you'll have the same experience. I I think if you never camp out and you sit around a campfire the next day when you wake up and you're you kind of smells like smoke. Everything smells like smoke, it's in your mouth, it's in your hair, it's in your nose. You're kind of like ugly, it's a little bit gross.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Yeah, it's kind of a pleasant smoke.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

If you get no, but if you get used to it, yeah, it's not only pleasant, you look forward to it.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Yeah. So, like, that's where I am. Like, because I haven't smoked for a while, I know that I'm gonna have that tomorrow. And I know, and I'm gonna notice it a lot more than I have in the past because it's been so long since I've had it. Right. And it might be something that might turn me off for a minute, but I'll know it'll remind me of the pleasant pipe that I had today. And as time goes on, that's what happens immediately. Yeah, tomorrow. I will probably be like, dang, there is like somebody smoking by me. And I won't like notice it, especially if I noticed this last time I smoked after a break. It gets on my computer, and I will smell it. I'll open my computer and I'll be like, My it smells like somebody's smoking a cigarette in here, but yeah, and I'll and nobody else will really pick up on it. So it's it's something that I smell because I'm tuned into it. Other people around me are don't notice it because I checked on that because I was at work with my computer, and I was like, Do you smell this?

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Pipe smoke is different, and so even this kind of pipe smoke. Nick used to get in my car, my old car. I used to smoke a lot in that car, and you love the way that smelled. But that wasn't the problem. Pipe smell was not a cigarette-y smell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a different smell, but it is a tobacco smell.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

But it's tobacco smell. It's a smoked tobacco. And so, yeah, so like I notice it a lot for like the next day or two. It'll it'll be in my water bottle too. Here, so it'll be as soon as I pop open the lid on my water bottle, I'll I'll get a whiff of it. And it'll be there for like a day or two, and then it'll go away. But I'm the only one that notices it, so it's not like it's eventually you get to where you don't.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

So, like to tomorrow, I'm not gonna even know I smoked two cigars and a in a couple pipes today. I'm just not, yeah. I'm just so used to it at this point. I it's not like, but I do remember when I first got into smoking uh pipes and stuff, especially cigars, but uh pipes too, like English ones. The next day, I was like, man, you know, like my mouth, my whole mouth. I could feel it. Also, I was getting tongue bite. And that's another thing. If you can start smoking where you don't get tongue bite and your mouth doesn't dry out, you won't have that the next day. Anybody that wakes up the next day and they're like, Oh, my mouth, you know, it's gross. It tastes like a, you know, what this with that or there. It's because you have tongue bite.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

You get rid of that tongue bite, you'll wake up the next day and your mouth will be completely normal. It's not going to feel weird. It's not going to feel dry. It's not going to be, you know, and I've had so many people tell me, like, the next day, like, oh, my mouth is so dry. It's like, we had tongue bite. No wonder. It's repairing itself. You didn't do it right. You know, like, like, yeah, you shouldn't be, your mouth should never burn. It just takes a long time. And I went through that for years. And I just don't have it anymore. I've learned to not I'd rather not smoke than get tongue bite. If it's one of those things, as soon as I start getting burned, I'm done. I'm done. I'll either change, adjust, or be done. Because I already know it's not something I want to deal with. It's it's it's like, you know, it's like not stretching before working out, knowing you're gonna go for an injury. Yeah. Why would you do that? You wouldn't. So you start learning things. And I and I never get tongue bite anymore because it's it's unpleasant the next day. It is. And it can happen to me if I'm not careful. It could happen to anybody, even if you know what you're doing. But if you know what you're doing, you can mitigate it. That's the trick.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

And there is like a usage thing. Like, I'm gonna have it tomorrow. And I know I will. Tongue bite. Yeah, I'll have a little at least not a very severe version, but like I'll have the dry mouth. Like, I'll have that. I won't have the when I started smoking, like the first couple of times, I had like the series.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

It might take three or four days before it healed.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

It sticks around forever and it's awful. It's like burning your mouth on hot food, it's there for a while. Exactly. So I'll have it tomorrow morning. It'll go away after that. Like it won't last very long. But it'll be like, I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna use mouthwash first thing, and like tomorrow morning I'll make sure, you know, brush my teeth, all that kind of stuff, but also extra mouthwash because it just kind of helps relieve some of that, and it's just like a because you don't do it very often, and stuff it'll it'll happen. And then when you

New Smoker Advice And Avoiding Tongue Bite

SPEAKER_03 45:45

if you do it more regularly, it doesn't happen as often, and then you also improve your technique, your technique changes. And that helps a lot. And this whiskey going along with this is just it's just such a great pairing. And that I find myself wanting more whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Well, I I just looked at my glass and was surprised it was empty, and I and I like American single walls, and I was like, Oh, it's empty. I wanted another sip, yeah. So, really, if you're looking looking for a way to get me in, maybe it was the tobacco, I don't know. But I enjoyed this. I enjoyed this. I get why you would be up like opting out. 110 bucks, sight unseen. I don't know if I'm gonna like it. I don't, I don't know about all that, but I do think that this bottle for 110 was worth it. At least the experience I had with the tobacco, the experience that I had tonight was worth $110 for the price of admission. I would, if I had bought this and we cracked it open and sat here and smoked this and drank that and had a good time, totally worth it. Yeah. So as far as tonight goes, this was a win. This was a totally great thing.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

For me, this is going to be a smoking bottle. I think, like I said, I wasn't a massive fan of it by itself, but tonight it is very, very good.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

And it that and I don't think I think the American single mall, the qualities of that really, I really enjoy that

Club Releases Vs Lotteries For Limited Bottles

SPEAKER_00 47:05

tonight.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

I really did now on that like method of selling bottles. So we're coming into uh the end of the bourbon boom. So like we're we're we're slowly that's starting to fade. Companies are going out of business, they sales are going way down, like there's lots of stuff happening in the whiskey world right now. Um, as an avenue of selling quote unquote limited releases, is this an avenue that makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Dude, I th I think so. And I think at that anybody offering this type of service is super smart because I mean they have companies now that even uh people pay because they don't know what subscriptions they have. So as far as far as a my the business side of me, my business degree is coming out, okay? Um from a purely from a business standpoint, that is so smart because there are people that will forget about it. You'll forget about it. And then when you remember it, you're like, ah, and then there's gonna be two things that are gonna happen. One is gonna be the hassle of canceling it, two is gonna be like the you know what? It is cool when you tell your friends that you are a member and you get bottles sent to you, all of a sudden it relights. So there might be periods you're like, I'm gonna, I need to cancel, I need to cancel it. You're not going to, at least you're not going to right away. And they're gonna make more sales that way than bottles on shelves. I'm telling you, yeah, even if they get half the amount of people sign up than than you know, than than they expected, they're gonna make more money than bottles on shelves. They just will. And I I think that from the simple fact of like peep people getting stuff sent to them in the mail is a fun thing. You might even regret it when it shows up there, but then you're part of you is still kind of excited. I I think it's smart.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Here's here's what I would say is if you are a fan of whatever brand or whiskey style, this is worth it. With a caveat. So we have a bottle coming up that we will do. Um to have a guest on, but uh it it's it's similar in this idea with the caveat that they do a lottery. So this is not a sign up and you're on the mailing list, therefore you automatically get it kind of thing. But you have to sign up for every lottery. But you have to become a member on their newsletter to get access to the lottery. Yes. But if you sign up for the lottery and you win, you buy. There's no question. But you have to sign up for the lottery for that specific bottle. So they'll tell you ahead of time, hey, this is coming out, this is the release, what we're doing, yada yada. It's $200. Cool. I put my name in, I know if I win, I buy it. What you got snookered into is what it feels like of like, hey, you signed up for a mailing list because you're a mailing list member. But you knew what you were getting into.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

So that's so that's the thing. So I did. So I put in my credit card info, knowing that I'm gonna get offered these things. What I didn't agree was that I'm gonna get the bottle. You're gonna automatically get yeah, and so like they sent me an email a couple weeks beforehand being like, hey, this is the next exclusive release. Would you like it or not? But it was an odd, it was an automatic opt-in, not a knocked out, uh, not an opt-out. Yeah, so because of that, I was like, Oh, I'm uh you didn't have a choice. I had a choice, but because I didn't look at the email, it's like, oh, I'm I'm just gonna get it automatically. So if this was a $50 bottle, that's fine. Yeah, I don't mind that for $110 though. That was like, oh man, like I wasn't expecting that to hit. It's on a credit card, like all that kind of stuff. So, but that part of it, I wasn't a huge fan. So it's just like I need to if I were to do this again or for a different brand, I would just I would I would use a different email or like something to be like, oh, I have to actually read emails from these guys, which that's another part of it, is that it means I'm gonna read their emails. That's the hard part, which is like that's a good thing for them that I do read their emails, but this is proof that I didn't read their email.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

You have to be aware of that, and it it very much feels like um I don't want to say taken advantage of.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

It doesn't it's it's taken advantage of the subscription service idea.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

There's a way to do it to where you don't feel taken advantage of, and like lots of people do this.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

Like this just happened to me with a TV service. I was used, I had Brit Box, which is like a British TV show uh streaming service thing. There was something on there I wanted to watch a year ago, and they had a discount special thing for like you know, 20 bucks for the year, you know, something like that. Because they they do that a lot with those kind of off-the-wall subscription services that they're crazy cheap to get them for a year. Um, but like a few days ago, I looked and I got charged 120 bucks for another year of it, and it was like, oh, well, I didn't I'm I've already watched that show. I don't want this again. I don't want this service. I don't want that bottle, Chris. So let's get rid of it. So so like I so then I immediately went in and canceled it. But like I'm already out the 120 bucks, like there's no right, you're done, you're done. I have it for another year, great, but you know, you you it's like I just forgot about it, right? And that's the struggle with something like this is that you're gonna forget about it. And at a hundred bucks, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

And then every now and then you're gonna talk about it and you're gonna be kind of like, maybe I should keep it. Yeah, and it's it's four times a year, so that's 400 bucks a year, which which actually is not cheap when you think about it. That because you know you're gonna buy other things, yeah, liquor-wise, like whiskey-wise. Like you're not gonna limit yourself to four bottles of American single malt a year, period. The end. So you really you're now of a sudden you're getting up. Your your whiskey budget's kind of getting up there, you know. Your wife, your wife's gonna start bitching a little bit. Yeah, well, you just bought this. It's like, well, I did, but I didn't like it. I didn't realize it. Yeah, I like it. Just they sent it to me, kind of like I didn't like go to the store and buy it. So then when you come home with a bottle, she's gonna be like, No, no, you just got one last month. It's like, well, hold on a minute, you know, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:25

So I was a surprise.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Yeah, I think it's good. I think they're gonna sell bottles based on it. Yeah, are they gonna have long-term members? There we go. No, but they don't need it, they'll still make money without long-term members, but more than they would on the shelf.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

But in today's age, do you need long-term members or do you just need numbers?

SPEAKER_03 53:47

Yeah, so that's that's what I'm curious about is how many people do you think signed up for this because it's an exclusive bottling and they can sell it on their own later on?

SPEAKER_00 53:58

I uh what you tell me, um, is American single malt even in that? I don't, I I really don't know. I don't think American single malt. I get I get that with, and that was the thing with bourbon. I don't think it really is. The secondary market's really kind of deflated, yeah. Which thank God. That's the thing. Right now it really is. Was American single malt ever really a thing on the secondary market? I don't think so. I don't think there's gonna be collectors right that are gonna want this stuff. Uh there's gonna be people that are gonna be like, I'm glad I'm a you know a member of this. But I I do think there's gonna be a lot of people that sign up for it. And this if this company gets a year out of them, 400 bucks, yeah, if you do the math, it's actually a ton. Like, if if even if they only do a couple good years, I mean that's these companies, like that's all they need. You know what I mean? Um, and then worst comes to worst, they start selling on the shelf again. They had a good couple years, they're gonna have now a couple steady years. You know what I mean? It's not like they're going out, you know. It's but it's better than being on the shelf alone, period. It's better than that.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

And I will say, like, on the front of this, it's there's this nice little brass plate that says exclusive release Westward Club 2026. Makes you feel special, so it makes you feel special. It's bottle 1838. I'm not, I don't know if they sold them in order or not, but that's that tells me that there's 1800 bottles of this that were sold via club. Yeah, and so like, and I don't think they're at the distillery or anything. I think this is the only way.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

For them to do it with American single malt is even smarter because it's even more niche. So the people that are already into that, they're kind of geeks about it, you know what I mean? Like, even more so than like bourbon, you know. So I I feel like if and and and there's less American single malt out there. So if you're already into that, this is kind of a club for you, you know what I mean? So I I could see this membership being a big thing for people that are into that.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

If if this one, like this was my first one, and like I said, the the Sherry I thought was too strong for me at the time. If if today was my first time opening this, I wouldn't have canceled it. Yeah, uh at that time it was, and it wasn't a great one. So because of that, I canceled it. If my first one was a good one, yeah, I wouldn't have canceled it, I would have kept going. So, because of that, it really is like a everyone has to be a winner, yeah. And if it's not a winner, then you'll cancel kind of thing. Unless you're like if you've had it for a long time, you've had a lot of their stuff, and you're like, Oh, this will be start getting kind of tired of it. Next one will be good, then I'll keep it, kind of thing. And so it's an interesting idea.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

I also think there's plenty of single people out there that don't care as much about what they're spending on liquor. There's there's some people that this is great for them. Yes, you don't have kids, you're not maybe you're not married, what you know, whatever it is. You don't mind a bottle showing up four times a year.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

And the thing is, like the people that we hang out with are not collectors, they're drinkers. And so, because of that, like your the appreciation is different. I'm looking for a bottle to drink, yeah, and so I'm willing to spend money on a bottle that's drink. I I I don't spend money on a collection like that unless I think I can maybe resell it or or do something like that with it. Or you host a lot and you're gonna host a lot of give it away, stuff out, yeah. Yeah, um, and so like for me, I like I said, I think if the bottle would have been uh different for the first one, I would have kept it up. It was just like I said, that that cherry cast was too strong for me when I first got it. Um now that I know that it's a killer bottle with an English blend, I'm gonna change things a little bit. That changes things now. I'm like, well, shoot, now I need to get me some more stronger finishes to try with English blends. Yeah, because I'm like good stout English blends.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

Just in general. Well, and think about this. Well, let's flip, let's let's flip it, flip it the other side. If you're the company, what are you losing by having this?

SPEAKER_03 57:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Nothing. You're only gonna make more sales. I mean, especially if if you're not making a ton, then you back off on how many bottles you you know, air quote bottles that you put out. The other thing is you can sell the left, the leftovers, you either rebottle it and sell it, or you can sell it at the distillery or what you're gonna sell it. So, really, if you're the company, what are they out by doing this club thing? They're not. So, even if they get two or three people and that's it, they're still coming out ahead. Like, it doesn't hurt, you know what I mean. Now, you want like 2,000, 3,000, but if even if you got two people, it's still two more customers. Like, so if you're thinking about it, like it's still better than just being on the shelf alone. I think it's a great, I think it's great all the way around. I think it's smart. I think if we had a company, why wouldn't we do that? Like, I would want to try to be in every opera, like I wouldn't want I would want people to buy my stuff any way they can.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Online, in the store, through a club member, through a membership, through a freaking raffle. I don't give a shit. Get my stuff out there, right?

SPEAKER_03 59:02

And I will say, like, a worry that I had for this was the the kind of uh the feeling that I had when I got it of like crap, I just paid a hundred bucks for a bottle and now I'm mad about it, kind of thing. But I got on to some like American single mold type of Facebook pages or Westward pages and stuff like that. Nobody was complaining about it. So you got a little excited about it. So because of that, it was like, okay, so nobody nobody's mad about how they're doing this because I was a little bit worried that they might be shooting themselves in the foot and like like like tricking people into buying bottles. Oh, like because you didn't sign off on it, you didn't see it coming, or you you know that kind of thing, which is kind of how I felt when I first got it. I knew I did sign up for it. I knew that I didn't see the email, I didn't sign off on it. I didn't swipe your card. Exactly. That's the thing. Like, if it was an opt-in, not an opt-out, I would feel a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

There really should have been an email. Yeah, and like, hey, if you don't get back with us in three days, we're gonna automatically do, and then another one the next day, then another one the next day. Then if three days go by and you didn't check your emails and they send you one, that's on you. But maybe an option to say yes or no this time, skip this order kind of a deal. Yeah, so they they did do that. They did I just didn't see it. Well, I mean, that's really yeah. You can't see that's bad. Yeah, that you because you had the opportunity to say no to this one and still be a member. Exactly. I like that. That's that's great, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

The problem is, like I said, in my email, I get a hundred emails from different whiskey brands every day, so I don't check them as much. Like I look for a headline or whatever in the emails, but that's it. And so it was kind of buried in there, and I just I missed it, and that was that. So that's on me. Yeah, that's my fault. So, like, I'm not mad at Westworld for doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

That's good that they do that. That's that's legit. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, that makes me want to sign up. I can always say no, you know. If you are you gonna pay attention, but you get you get how they get people because then if you do do one, you're like, Well, that's on me. All of a sudden you eat it. They still made the sale. They did. Smart for them, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

Not bad for you. I canceled after that, but I'm not mad at them for it. I could see people getting mad at them for it. Yeah, and so that's what I that's what I thought might be happened to them is that people would get mad about it. That wasn't the case. People didn't, at least not publicly. Most people kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Like I could have skipped this one and I didn't kind of a deal. Yeah. I mean, I like that opportunity. I I like it's almost like if you again, if you think devil's advocate, if you're really in American single, which is a niche market, there's not many out there, yeah. And you're and you're buying that stuff on the reg and you like this brand, and you have the option to say no, you can always skip it. Why wouldn't you be a member? And that's where they get their sales because every now and then you might one might slip by and if you're really into it, you're like, I'll just eat it. You know what I mean? Like the next time I gotta keep an eye on this kind of a thing. I don't want to skip the next one, you know. So they're gonna retain members that way, and they're gonna get bottles, bottles are gonna slip past people that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

And then and then there's gonna be people that are gonna want the bottles too. So really, I think it's a great business model. And I think really if you're big in American single malt, which there's not many out there, I think it's a great thing. I think it's cool, especially when you have the option to say no, skip, or or you especially if they give you tasting note, like this one's gonna be like this, and you know, that's not my jam. I'm not doing this one. Yeah, and then and what's great is you know, if you follow up, oh god, I wonder if that was good. And you read the reviews, you're like, fuck, I should have gotten that bottle. That looks great. Yeah, now the next time you're really gonna want that bottle. And that one might be a dud. I don't know. But I think it's a great, I think it's great. I love the idea that anybody would be willing to put out four air quote limited bottles a year, too, for selected people. That's great, you know, and it's not a lottery, it's a hey, do you want this or not? Kind of a deal. I like that. I think it's an overall great business plan.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

I like it. What are your thoughts? You don't seem quite as fast.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Uh I I I don't I don't like as a consumer, I don't like how they go about it. Being a member of another company. They send out an email that says, hey, this is the bottle that's up and coming. Enter the lottery if you want. If you wouldn't, it's yours. You pay for it right away. So you have to enter a card.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

But you might not win it. It's a lottery. I don't like lotteries.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

But but I'd prefer that than being surprised because I didn't catch an email that now I have a bottle. Because one way I have to explain to the wife, I had no idea because I messed up. The other one is, uh, you know what? I entered for this limited thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

And I my problem is that I've if I come to the wife and I'm like, hey, I won this, she's gonna be like, no. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I'm saying? So like it could go either way, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Like it could go either way. In your in your version of this, you said in the lottery, you put in your credit card to begin with, so there isn't an option. If you win, you win the option is you don't enter.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

The option is you don't enter. Oh, so if you win, you get it, period. Yes. Oh, I didn't get that. I thought you were saying you still got the choose.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

No, I have to enter. If I enter, then I get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Well, that's different. Although I will say, if you have problems with the wife buying stuff, that's only gonna work one time for you. She's gonna be like, Don't enter it again. Because she'll be like, okay, fine. Fair. You won, don't enter again. You know what I mean? All of a sudden now you're limited. You can't, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

One is more consumer friendly, the other one's more business friendly.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

But it's easier for me, it would be easier for me to sanction with the wife. Hey, these four bottles are gonna come every year, and I'm gonna buy these versus like, hey, I'm gonna enter these lotteries, and if I win, I win. But you're doing three in a row, she's gonna be like, that's it. You're gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

See, you get the option to not enter. You get to see what the bottle is, you get to see what the mash pill is, what the blend is, you get to see all the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

It's an opt-in versus an opt-out. Yes, I get it. That's where I struggle. I think it's easier to sell, like, hey, I'm part of a club with this bottle. For me, I think that's easier to sell than like, hey, I'm gonna randomly put my name out there, and if I get it, I get it, kind of a thing. You always get it, you know what I mean? Like, kind of a deal, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Which a lot, some of those lotteries are that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

You just get a lot of they are that way, yeah. Which is smart again. It goes back to they're selling bottles, you know what I mean? They're making it feel like I mean they're gonna get a customer now. Like maybe you weren't gonna buy it, but now you get it's a lottery. I'll put my name in. If I win, I win, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

But I think people joining in the

Secondary Market Deflates And Prices Shift

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

lottery to get the bottle, whether member or lottery, and then reselling, that day has gone to the wayside.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

People just like to win when you went get the lottery, you're like you won something.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Yeah, that has gone to the wayside.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Oh, because the secondary market, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

Because I I just had a guy that tried to he had uh I think it was mid winter night's dram.

unknown 1:05:57

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

That used to go for a lot, but now Sale secondary anywhere from 100 to 175. I think he was asking close to 175. I emailed him and said or messaged him like, hey, 100 for this. No go. All right, have fun. Has yet to sell it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

No one wants it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

No, that's too much. Yeah. It used to it used to go for that, but not anymore. And honestly, honestly, this might be a people listening. This might be a bit of a controversial thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

It ain't worth it. It ain't.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

It ain't worth it. It's good. It's good at $100. It is not worth anything more than that. I've had plenty of that stuff. I'm telling you, it's good. It's not it's not Yippie Kaye. No, no, it's been $175 for Yippi Kaye. That's different.

unknown 1:06:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

I think in general, the secondary market is disappearing. That's a good thing. Because most of the time it wasn't worth it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

Most like, I mean, if you look at like Buffalo Trace, that stuff was going for a hundred bucks part of the time. Like Buffalo Trace was freaking $25 bottles. Yeah. It's a $25 bottle.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:00

And it's like, it's a fantastic $25 bottle. It was so good for $25. It's terrible for $100.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

Yeah, it's it's it's pretty good. People never got that. Yeah. Did you guys all see what uh Blaytons just went up to MSRP? No, what's Blyth's up to it? They raised it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

$85.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

What are they what are they doing raising the prices? What's funny? What's the age?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Is it's gonna it's gonna have to lower back down. Oh, yeah. They're gonna lower it back down because the cost of it's not that. And in and and people are not gonna pay that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:28

And you guys have mentioned before on secondary that people were were using Weller as almost like currency. It was currency, like doing that. Fives and tens, man. A friend of mine is uh is a liquor store worker uh for like Kroger and stuff, and he showed a picture of like pallets full of Weller that was at there, and he's like, This is proof of of the downfall.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

You know what's funny. It was funny is actually, and well, they don't care, but really Buffalo Trace destroyed the secondary market. No, because they expanded because they grew because they all of a sudden their supply is meeting demand, and they're and the secondary is gonna be like, Well, then it should be 50 bucks, you know what I mean? Like it's there's that's everywhere, you like you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

What's funny is they flooded the market for Weller, yeah. It hasn't even flooded.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

It's gonna be flooding here soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Yeah, they did not, and I don't know that they ever will flood the market for Blaine's. I don't think they did it to offset the secondary. I think it's so they can increase and make something a premium.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

You already Blaine's is already way more available than it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

It is.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

Uh, and I think it's gonna get more too. No, it's it's gonna get more. It's gonna get more. Are you sure? What I don't think you're gonna see a whole lot of uh much more of is uh the EH Taylors. Yeah. And somewhat Eagle Rare. Eagle Rare used to be, yeah, Eagle Rare used to be on the shelf all the time, along with blantons and everything else. Uh I I just still don't I don't know how it's a 10-year. I don't know how much more of that you're gonna see for a while.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

I think in two years I will be able to complete a Blanton's top set.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I guarantee you'll be able to get I guarantee in a couple years, you're gonna walk in the store and there's gonna be blantons on the shelf. Because when once everybody can completes the freaking Blantons thing, like you just said, it's done. Who's buying that much blantons? Anyway, anybody that's actually into whiskey. And if you're not into whiskey, you're not gonna buy that many either, either. You know, once you've had enough, everybody's gonna have enough. It's once it's available, it's not gonna be sought after. It's just not. It's gonna go back to like this is really great for the price. Is it not gonna be really great for $85? It's not because it isn't right. Freaking Booker's is great for $85, and it's not even $85 anymore. It's that's gone up. That's gone up, and it's still great at $100, but it was really good at $89 when it was $89. You know what I mean? Or $70. I got some for like $72. You know what I mean? Like back in the day. That was good, but like Bland's was great for the price. Yes, and it was one of the it was like one of the original single barrels out there. Now there's single barrels out the ass. So it's just not it's fancy. You take Bland's and put it in a really shitty bottle, and people are not gonna care about it. It's just okay. Yeah, it's really just okay. I mean, it's it's really not even like other than an easy drinking bourbon. It's nobody sitting there and contemplating life over blands. You know what I mean? I they're just not, like, it's just not that much of a thinker. You know, it's just not. It's good. It's not, I'm not saying it's not good, but like, you know, I I never like questioned life decisions over an Eclair. You know what I mean? I never sat and ate an Eclair and was like, you know, life, life is really just transcendent. You know what I mean? Like, it's good. It's a donut, damn it. Like, you know, it's okay. It's just all right. Like, uh, you know, it's not life. This is not changing my life, you know. Right. That's blantons for you. It's good, it's not gonna change your life.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

Tipsy had uh bookers, 56 bucks. Gosh, I don't know how you told me that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

When, where, why, how. Like, yeah, you that's not even it's that's under retail, like way under retail.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:16

Because like I would buy bookers. I mean, I would buy bookers. I would buy the whole case for that.

unknown 1:11:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

Like, what the hell? I I have a hard time with buying bookers for a hundred bucks after I've like I don't personally see he, I don't taste a massive difference from one booker's to the next very often. There might be weird ones out there, but overall, but if you don't have them, and so like, yeah, I want a booker's on my shelf, but I want one booker's on my shelf.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:46

But if I can get it for 56 bucks, I will buy a whole case.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

Yeah, I do agree with you, Steve. I don't think they vary as much as people think. Yeah, but is it worth $100 all day long? Yes, it doesn't matter what iteration, it's worth that. But if you already have plenty out here, you don't need it, you don't collect your I don't buy it unless I need it. I got plenty, but at $50, I'll spend a thousand dollars on bookers because it's like that's half price, yeah. Like half price bookers, like it's worth a hundred. I think bookers is worth a hundred dollars all day, every day. You get it for 50 bucks, 60 bucks, you're getting half price bookers. I mean, yeah, I'll buy two for one. Sure, that's buying two for one, and I'll spend more money because I'm getting two for one. I'm not gonna need it for years, you know what I mean. Kind of a thing. I do like book. I've always said this bookers for me could be a daily driver. Oh, yeah, it's just a little expensive, but and not everybody can say that it's a stout beverage. You know, I do like it. Like for me, it could be a daily driver, but the price and the availability make it not that way for $50, $60, hell off, dude. That's a that's gonna be it on the regular for $60. I would all you'd see is bookers on my shelf. I mean, damn, dude. Like, that's you know what I mean. How could you buy anything else? Like, how could you? Like, this is so good for 60 bucks, you know. How can I buy, how can I justify buying anything else?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:11

I think we're getting to a point and possibly coming to days where prices start to come down.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

They're coming down, they're coming down to to reasonable. I think the fact that the secondary market is is destroyed is what's helping that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

I told I told Mary this the other day. You think about Sazraq. Blains was the premier top shelf back in the day. That was the thing to go after. Now we're getting into Weller 12, weather foolproof. We're getting into the the the BTAC. We're getting into all these different happies. All this is like, oh, these are premium, these are premium, and they're going for thousands of dollars. Now we've ruined that. Now they're coming down. Now Buffalo Trace is like, let's flood the market with the basic, keep it at basic, let's increase the premium. Because who this I'm I'm I'm very very curious in your thoughts. Who do you guys think when you think of brands, who has the top-tier premium price tag for their like top shelf bottles?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

Price tag? It's right off. Maybe Evan Hill.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Or beam. Potentially. Maybe I would say the beam probably potentially. I I will say for Buffalo Trace. Or for any distance.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

Who's had the history of the highest price tag for premium?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:41

Highest price tag?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

Probably Buffalo uh Beam. Probably. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

Because Booker's was what, 75? And that was the high everyone balked, they were like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:57

I I think that they've been one of the few ones that have put out things that range all the way from cheap to expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:04

And I think people are other distilleries are catching on. They're like, ooh, we have to we have to raise our pre we have to raise the premium.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

But I will say any distiller, any um distillery that's in the running, okay. Uh I I think that we as consumers are looking at it from a different view vantage point than the distilleries. Okay. So I I think that we're looking at like secondary and and what people want, what people are buying, and and I don't, I think literally distilleries are looking at numbers, sales numbers only.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

So they're not looking like, hey, we're gonna flood the market and do this and do that and do all. They're looking at okay, Buffalo Trace sold X amount in 2024. Buffalo Trace, I'm talking about their regular, uh, and Blanton's and and and what whatever pick a line, okay? Say it's blantons. And Blanton uh sold an X amount more in 2025. And Blanton sold an X amount so much more this year. Okay, we're trending up. We need to get more product out there, more product equals more sales because the trends are going up. Yeah, that's all they're looking at. They're not looking at like, you know, hey, you know, people are buying this and people are doing that, and the market's doing this and the market. I really don't think they're looking at that. They're looking at like we need to, and they're thinking four or eight years ahead, right? Because this stuff's got to age, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:26

So, but my counter to that is that that's not trending up. It's trending down. It is trending down.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

I'm just I'm just saying so. When Buffalo Trace put the expansion in, it was trending up.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:36

Oh, yes, correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

So, and and it's a gamble, right? There's a four-year minimum gamble. Yeah, so when when they put that expansion in for however many billions of dollars that they did, which was insane, they added how many rick houses, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:49

Um more than doubled, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:50

The boom was booming hard. Yeah, booming hard. So, I mean, at that time it was like, hey, we'd be foolish. Like, we're projected that this is gonna keep going. We don't think it's gonna ebb, it's gonna flow. So let's go ahead and throw this money in. And at the end of the day, what we have extra product, right? So I really don't think you know they could have predicted one way or the other. I think given the numbers, smart play was more product, more sales, more revenue, better off, which is what they did. But now, now product is reaching demand and and and popularity is coming down. So they're they're gonna be like, well, fuck.

unknown 1:17:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

We have product and now demand's not as what it was. So hopefully we can sell this shit. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:31

But I think I do think to Nick's point that Buffalo Dreams is a $25 bottle and it's a cheap bottle. Yeah, it's become this high-end thing during the boom. The boom is dying off, it's gonna go back down to a normal $25 bottle. It's got in blank. It's a very good $25 bottle. It's gotta go back down, right? But I do think they're doing a good job of maybe keeping something as a premium instead of keeping Buffalo Trace as their because it Buffalo Trace was a premium, but only on the secondary market. They were still only making $25.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:05

I mean, well, well, there's always gonna be a from now on, well there's gonna be a premium. It wasn't before, it will be now. Um, uh, the the Eagle Rare, EH Taylor, the the Elmer T. Lee, like these things are always gonna be a pre. They have plenty, they actually have more premium products than they have.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:22

But what is what here's the thing I'm talking about price though, not quality. Yeah, so like Weller is still a what a $40 bottle? 30, 30, 40. Yeah, Weller Green. Yeah, well, Weller Green.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

Used to get a hand, you used to get a handle, a handle of Weller Green was 30 bucks. Yeah, so that's I know because I bought it. So that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:41

So, like, that's not gonna be premium because like the price is not premium. Weller was never premium, they need to make something to actually be premium. So I think that's why they're raising their prices of blantons so that they have an actual a price tag premium option.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

But that but they do have premium product, they have more premium product. They just what they need to do is have more of those premium. I get what you're saying, but that you you should see more of the the specialty wellers. Yeah, you should see more of the Elmer T leaves and the EH Taylors.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:12

But it's the thing, like those bottles. How what how much is an EH Taylor MSRP?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:16

MSRP, well, it's it should 70, 60, 70 bucks, which I think, I think as time goes on, that will go up. But yeah, but but raising blantons up is foolish. Yeah, it was never supposed to be that. Think about it. You can get, and this is a really controversial thing to say, but I and I've said this for years, but you can get a really good single barrel from uh wild turkey for way cheaper if you know the bottle I'm talking about. Yeah, uh and and they never raised their price, and it was available, like it. That's some good shit right there. But it's what makes Blanton special, other than the recipe. It's a single barrel. Well, guess what? It's been done. Well, at the time it hadn't, you know, but now it has it's ornamental, yeah, but should not worth eight, what'd you say, $85? That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. And I get inflation, I do get inflation, but that's a lot of inflation.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:07

So here's the problem: the problem is inflation's real, it's a thing, but in the whiskey world, it need it's it's actually deflation right now, right now, like we need to be lowering prices to bring things back to where where they need to be. Because keep people get more selective because people got yeah, exactly. That's like like like sixty dollars is gonna become a premium price again, right? Like, because that at one point that was a premium price, it's not anymore, that's an everyday price today.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:32

So, like, that's gonna as the next year or I'd like to see 60 bucks being like a 60 bucks is gonna be a solid bottle, yeah. And again, like because there's a lot of sixty dollar crap out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

I think your your twenty to thirty dollars is gonna be your everyday drinkers again, again, yeah. And whereas for collectors or like people like us, we were buying $50 bottles as everyday drinkers because that's what it was, that's just what it was. You know, the thing is. But overall, they're mixers. Um, and so yeah, I think that that's what's gonna happen is that $60 is gonna become your premium price. So them raising their price to $85 is them milking these next couple of months as as things are still a little bit unsure, and then they're gonna have to drop it back.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:24

Well, and who can sell

Cheap Beer Returns And Bourbon Basics

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

blintons higher on secondary? Well, I mean, you're not making that much. 65 to 110, you're making a lot. 85 to 110.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:33

Well, let's talk about this, and you guys tell me if I'm wrong. You're wrong. I I do think beer's getting more popular than it used to. We're getting starting to get it. I think beer's coming back a little bit. And I don't mean craft. I don't mean craft. I mean just beer. I'm seeing it's more popular than it used to be. People are drinking it more, they're talking about it more, which is good for us because that means, again, like you said, bourbon's gonna come back down, it's gonna be less popular. There for a while, it was like bourbon only. Nobody drank beer. It was bourbon, bourbon, bourbon, bourbon. And it was never even whiskey, it was bourbon, bourbon, bourbon, bourbon. Like people that didn't know anything about anything was buy drink bourbon. It's because that's popular, you know. Why drink bourbon? Crumb oil, yeah. Yeah, bourbon, yeah. Uh, but I I think, oh, dude, I think the the the cheap, like cheap beer is coming back. There we go. And and I I think it's becoming like a thing that it's a rite of passage, it's a thing people are bragging about. Cheap, low calorie light that I drank forever is becoming a thing again.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:30

Like we have a we have a few new brands in that realm. So like the garage beer. Yeah, the garage beer. It's huge, garage beer. It's huge right now. It's good. It's great.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:39

I mean, it's like in terms of like a light. I still drink bushlight.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

I I don't know, but I don't, but I but yeah, I people are drinking, people are buying it by the twin. Yeah, because the Kelsey's are sponsored. Why don't you push it out? I didn't even know that that was a thing, but yeah, other than it was garage beer.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:55

I'm like, well, that's bushlight, which is a great smell of highlight. What are we talking?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:59

It's killer marketing. I love the garage beer like marketing. The fact that this is your this is your beer for the garage.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:05

Yeah, garages are garages are coming back, freaking mowing your yard is coming back, freaking flannel shirts and beer. I'm telling you, it's coming back. Bourbon's kind of taking a back seat. What you're gonna see, and I predict this, is you're gonna see basic bourbon coming back eventually. Like you said, Steve, I think that these everyday drinker no thinkers, the the Jim Beam White label where it's sorry price tag, yeah. I think it's coming back around where people are gonna be like, white collar drinks are out, blue collar bourbon is back, baby. It's gonna you're gonna see people drinking seven and seven and shit like that. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:41

I got a chance to talk to, I think it's a CEO and C F O maybe of our company. Um first time met him, one of them was like, Oh, dude, I love makers. The makers heart series just came out.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:55

Nobody talks about makers anymore, but it makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:58

I gave him one of the store picks from tipsy's that I was part of. The other one was like, I'm not not too big into bourbon, but I went to Fort Roses with the son-in-laws, yeah, and we did a tour that means a lot. So I sent him uh a four roses single barrel pick. A single barrel pick from tipsy, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I asked both of them, like, hey, have you had a chance to open them? Both of them looked at me and they go, not to drink. We opened it for others for friends. So, like the sun, he's like, the sun-in-laws drank all most of the four roses, they seem to like it. The other guy's like, I'm not drinking as much, you know. Others may have drank more. The one that was the four roses looks at me and goes, you know, I gotta be honest, um, back in the day in college, Jim Bean White label was my thing, but it would it, you know, it was it was kind of like the trash, like, you know, the mixer. We got hammered on it, but like I'm kind of going back to that thing. And I looked at him and go, right on. That is what we need. Like, we we need more of that, the basics, the everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:04

Makers is a basic and actually, I noticed I was just at the store, makers 46 lowered their price. Yeah, so now it's like a five-dollar difference between makers and makers 46.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:13

Makers 46 is an amplified makers, it's an amazing maker. Look, and I'm a makers fan, and I can tell you that improvement. It's an improvement. I love regular makers, but makers 46 is especially for a $5 difference, it's better, you're better off getting us.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:29

You do know the story about Makers 46, right? Uh we talked about it. Tell people, go through. They they took away that stave for the private barrel pack because so many people liked it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:41

They said and then they had to put it out there because they were only selling it at the distillery. They they said kind of it was kind of like you couldn't get it unless you asked, kind of.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:50

You're not gonna do this, and then we're gonna put out a cast strength for the makers 46, which is the equivalent of what people were putting into the private barrel.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:58

Which cast drink maker 46,

The Cajun Cake Test Changes The Pour

SPEAKER_00 1:26:00

yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:01

Cast strength and anything makers is great. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Uh, do you still have any of your pipe from the last the last one? Yes. Or do you finish? Light that up real quick and take a drink with this, with this, with the Westward. With the Westwood? Okay. Wait, which which one? The the one from the last time. So the uh uh Cajun oh crap Cajun cake. If you still have it, I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:22

I just lit up on the but I have to drink some Westwood, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

Well, I'm gonna need that bottle because I you went back to the old one too, which honestly I will tell you wasn't good with this with the last you don't think so? No. So the the uh I'm drinking less of the primary. It was okay, like it just wasn't anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:42

It was okay. It changed my own. I uh I finished I finished my pipe with uh with today's the Eastern Star. And uh so I went back to my old pipe and and tried that. I want you to do the same thing before I say what why why it matters.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:57

I have a love hate of wanting to finish this and not what's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:03

I will say for the Eastern Star, how available is that?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:07

I've never seen it. Pretty available, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:09

So if you get on their website or whatever, you probably get it. Okay, the the Star of the East flake. Star of the East Flake. Now, there are they do sell Star of the East in bulk. Yeah, and they also sell it in a can that's uh rubbed out. Okay, okay. I wouldn't recommend it. It's okay, it's fine, it's not bad. Get the flake because it just it's better, especially for long-term aging. Now, if you were to and I'd love to do it, maybe we should do that for one of these podcasts at some point, where we pop a new 10 and an old 10 and do them side by side. Yeah. But I want to say it's really, really great. It's really something special when it's aged this long. So so I would recommend if you were to get some, like I always say, at least two. One to try, one to sell her, at least two. You can get a few more and sell her those. Even better. Sure. Yeah. This thing aged well. And honestly, Latokia blends don't always age the best. They age okay. It's not, but there's not a huge noticeable. This one I think is noticeable.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

This is good. Yeah. Star of the East Flake. They also sell it in eight ounce tens. So if you want to get a little bit more bang for your buck, yeah. And like I said, they sell it in bulk too. If you wanted to go that route, yeah, underrated, underrated. Nobody talks about that. This one in Pegasus or two that they nobody talks about.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:27

But we're going back to what was it? A caging cake? Cajun cake. Cajun cake. I'm gonna go. So cajun cake is what he's about to relate. And that's what we had on our last episode. Uh at least the last one that we recorded with uh Jay Reger. Uh so um, but I tried that and and I just had it with this Westword. And I'm curious on if you thought the same thing I did when I when I did that. So I went back to it. It's a vapor, it's a vapor, so it's a pretty heavy Puriq uh in it. So we talked about that uh with the Cajun cake. So the Cajun cake has a lot of vapor or a lot of perique in it, so it's a lot of uh uh peppery notes. And I said I noticed that when I stopped drinking RJ Reeker on it. And then see how well that pipe took off. Yeah, that stuff is literally just right away. Burn burning good burning tobacco.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:23

Okay, yeah, god, that stuff is good.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:25

Um, let's see.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:28

Yeah, so different.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:29

It's incredibly different between the two of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:32

I don't know if that's what you're getting at, but I can tell you what I'm getting, what I'm experiencing.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:36

Yeah. The pipe itself, not a big difference. It's in the whiskey that I'm tasting a difference. It is kind of funny. I do. You're gonna say the parik. Yours is a little rough over there.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:45

Are you gonna say the perik?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:47

Yeah, that like that peppery.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:48

Way more peppery. Way more peppery.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:50

So I didn't notice. What I'm actually getting, and this is gonna sound weird, yeah, but it's reminding me kind of a s of a stir fry, like an Asian, like an Asian dish, like a chin, like Chinese food, like very peppery, sweet sour, um, and uh a little spicy. I'm getting a lot more spice in general. Yeah, but you get the zin, the zingy kind of because it's sweet still.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:16

It's sweet, but it's losing its it's uh I don't know if the proof is coming out more or if it's the pepper that's going, but it's it's it's changing the whiskey uh quite a bit for me. Totally, totally. It's a different experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:28

It's the white pepper. You talk about Chinese white pepper is huge in Asian culture. I'm thinking like water chestnuts for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

Oh, okay. You get what I'm saying? Like, like that kind of food in this, and I feel like it would be really good with that. Like, like like that, but I didn't get that at all the first time around. What if the smoke's gone?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:48

Yeah, that smoke's gone, yeah. And that smoke really was doing something to this, and now it's completely different. It's gone, it's not quite as sweet, it's a little bit the the proof is coming out stronger for me. But it is watery, it's not as good to me. It's more watery, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:03

And I yeah, I don't like it as much. I don't mind it. It's good. I'm having a good experience. Yeah, it would be better with food. I it's you know what it is, it's lacking, it's missing now. Whereas before it was full, I was happy, I was satiated, I was content. What I am missing right now is food. Like I I want um like a Chinese dish or something with it. It's not enough, is what I'm getting at. Yeah, and it's good, but it needs more, yeah, and that's not a good experience, right? But yeah, that is so interesting that it changes, and so this neat, and I get what you're saying. When you first got this, you were kind of like, okay, yeah, when you s when you had it with the latiquia with the English blend, it changed things. Yeah, this whiskey needs smoke, needs smoke. Holy cow! Yeah, and with it, it's perfect. Without it, it's lacking it's underwhelming. Yeah, it's good. This is super peppery, and I I really appreciate how peppery it is. Yeah, um, but I'm missing the umami. I'm missing some of the I need food or something. It's not enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:06

We have wondered how much smoking matters. This is it's huge.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:10

This is huge. Yeah, like this is a massive difference in this bottle. This isn't eight egg rolls, would be great with this. Like it what it needs is uh pot stickers. Yeah, I wasn't hungry until this. Now I'm like, man, I I think it needs something. Yeah, whereas before, completely content. That's so interesting. Egg rolls don't know how about that? That's something to really take into account when we're doing fried weed. Smoking does we always knew it played a part, but yeah, but it's certainly different. That's a huge difference. Yeah, I would a hundred percent agree, and it's so much more peppery, yeah, so much more peppery. I don't know if the pre smoke is then it's gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:48

It's like here's the thing peppery. What kind of peppery are you guys getting? This is my favorite kind of peppery. Well, no, it's I'm not saying it's a bad peppery, I mean it's super peppery.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:58

This is like white pepper, dude. It's like uh freaking Alice in Wonderland when they're talking about the pepper. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:04

Like it's I love white pepper. Yeah, brisket has white pepper. And Prince, I've I've overdone it. Princess said, buddy, white pepper goes a long way. Well, any chef's gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:15

If you overdo something, any chef will tell you, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:17

Even Mary said, Yep, just a little goes a long way.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:19

Well, and and here's and I love pepper too. I love white pepper, especially in chili and stuff like that. Uh different things, but even black pepper. Uh I've so here's where I've come to the point where I won't put salt on my eggs anymore, but I do put pepper. Yeah, that's interesting. Because I want more pepper than salt, and honestly, I think it kind of takes it away. Yeah, I've not tried white pepper, but I do I use white pepper a lot. I do use it a lot. I actually use white and black. I'll I'll go both. I'll go both, yeah. But um, I will say that I do appreciate a good pepper. It's a little bit uh acidic, yeah, and you need that sometimes. I think that that bitterness, that acidity kind of will will help other flavors come forth. It really kind of like pushes out the other flavors. That's what I appreciate about it, and I love the feeling it gives it, like in but in between in my palate, in between my nose and my mouth, there's a spot in there that it kind of hits and it kind of just like taps you, you know, a little bit. I I've always enjoyed that. Yeah, so yeah, the the the tobacco change to this. I'm glad you I'm glad you did that because I don't think I now I'm leaving with a completely different perspective on this Westwood.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:30

It's it's wet. It's so different. It's so wet, it's it's so watery, it's wet.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:35

It's actually, yeah, you're right. It's more it's missing lubricant in the mouth. It's it's much more lubricating. It's like uh like if you ever had salt water, it's kind of like that. It's very lubricating, it's very uh hydrating. Yeah, before it wasn't like that, and actually I appreciated it more that way. I really liked it with the campfire with the smoke. Yeah, it's so different. It's so different, it really is.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:57

So when we talk about this, we're like, oh, you know, this pair as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:00

It turns out pairing really does matter, like it does, it you know, it is a difference as someone that has yet to smoke until that is a good point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:08

If this has made a big difference if I had chose, chosen to smoke this with this from the beginning, yeah, we would have had a completely different conversation and experience, yeah. And we never would have thought about it the other way around.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:22

It's just because I had the other one sitting here next to me, it's only because we went to an English, so I had to switch bites. We would have hated this bottle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:29

I really think that we we we wouldn't have liked it the way that we did, but we picked the right one and it worked.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:35

This this bottle in particular uh plays with other things quite a bit. Totally, maybe it's more susceptible to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:43

I don't know. I think it's I think it's everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:45

I don't know if it's in general, maybe it's in general.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:48

I don't know what it is, but but that was a very different experience with the two different tobacco. That's funny because you originally were like, eh, but then you were like, Whoa, yeah, I want you know, and then you were like it with our Eastern Star, and then I had this one, and I was like, wow, that isn't as good.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:04

Because you were like ready to you were ready to like go back up and sign back up and be like, I want more bottles. I was like, this is amazing, and then and then now you're like, Oh, no wonder I no wonder I you know got rid of it. Yeah, holy cow. No wonder I was like, don't send me more stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:19

That's interesting. Well, it's interesting even more. I sent you a text Sunday, yeah, Steamworks, yeah, yeah, Steamworks with old granddad seven year. Amazing. Yeah, that's a good that's a good deal. This is Steamworks, yeah, yeah. This with American single malt. That's good. No, that's good. At least not this one, but this with a bolder, more depth, like more uh nutty, maybe nutty, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:50

I would say, yeah, that this this type of tobacco. So the the vapor I've always said that I think it it lends itself more towards a basic bourbon. Oh, yeah, not in a bad way, not in a bad way. Well, old grandad is just about as good as a Kentucky chew can get, you know what I mean? Like that's you're chewing on it. That's a good that's a good bourbon. It's an American chew. It is, it is it's that. And I think a vapor is is lends itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:14

Two uh two an American single malt to a scotch, you'd not like steamworks to a scotch.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:21

When it goes to show maybe, maybe I'm crazy. Yeah, maybe I do get it wrong. I think more often I get it right. And when I as soon as I hear what a bottle is, I choose a tobacco, and a lot of times it works out. And the what I chose worked out, it worked out great. It was a killer combo. Enough to make me want to go out and buy that bottle of Westwood. Now, if I'm trying it this way, I'm like, no, thanks. $110? What the hell? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:48

All of a sudden, my whole opinion changed. So now it's like this this bottle, I will only drink this bottle now with an English. You have to with an English tobacco. I will never drink this bottle by itself.

Pairing As A Skill And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_03 1:38:00

I will only drink it with an English tobacco. Yeah. Wow. I'm so glad that you did that.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:06

It just opened up my whole mind for everything. We are right. We know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:10

Any American single malt to a English?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:13

I don't know what to say. Any I I think this, I think it's the finish more than anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:17

Okay, I hate I hate giving blank in statements. Like, we're not giving blanket.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:22

This goes with this.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:23

I don't think American single malt goes with English. I think I wouldn't maybe maybe more finishes. That's a leap. That's a leap, yeah. I think finishes in general, maybe maybe might go better with an English because because a finish tends to be sweeter, and so you need something more robust to go with it. So it might just it might pan out that way. But this particular bottle needs a stout English.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:44

Well, and I will say, when he said that this was finished and sherry, it was I knew it was gonna be sweeter. Yeah, I thought I really thought that this like stout English would be good because uh again, that sweetness is gonna kind of play around. So, like there are some things that go into a formula in your mind when you're thinking about pairing, you know what I mean? And uh uh Prince could probably explain it better than I can, but like there's gotta be certain components that he just knows work well with each other. Yeah, so those are things you need to look at, and you're not always gonna get it right. I I definitely don't get it right all the time, but I think that's something to think about when you're talking about pairing. I think pairing is a science into itself. You could do a whole podcast on pairing, you could do classes on pairing, like it's just if it's a very good bottle on its own, then you would want to match it.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:32

If it's if it's something that maybe needs something, then you want to counter it. Counter it, depending on what you counter it.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:38

But you don't know what that is until you do it. And the more you have in your palate, the more flavors you have in your brain, the better you can make those assessments. You gotta try things. You can't say this would be good with anise if you've never had anise. You know what I mean? You can't say this is good with this or that. Clove, how many people have had clove? Like actual just clove can identify this is clove by itself. Not a lot of people. So, how can you say clove would improve or work or make this thing worse without knowing what that flavor is? So, the more you have in your brain, in your palate, the better you are to pair the counter or to or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:17

So, do we need to do a whole series on we've had this, but what would go well with it?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:24

I don't know maybe we could it might be it.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:26

I think it would be interesting to maybe do something with find find a bottle that maybe is a little bit undescript, yeah. So sort of sort of a nondescript bottle, and then have two or three different tobaccos with it and see in the same episode, like see how they play okay, okay. Maybe have a few pores of that, but try different things and see how different tobacco plays to see how the tobacco pairs with the whiskey. That would be interesting, and then more like a blind, yeah, more like a blind, and then reverse it and have a tobacco and have two or three different drinks with it and see which one of these see if we can pick pick which one works the best. See which one of those kind of pans out best. That would be fit. That'd be interesting to see how that how that kind of works in that. Because like we're kind of we go blind when it comes to most of these pairings, um, and so we go we have a general idea this is a rye heavy, so I want to go with this or whatever. But uh but like having two or three different ones to try with it just to see see how those work because like this one, like this is a completely different bottle with those different tobaccos.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:34

So that's interesting how that kind of worked out. And we've also talked about doing some getting some bulk blends and getting components of tobaccos, yeah, smoking them straight and talking about the way that it tastes and and and how it would, and then eventually incorporate like making our own blend. Making a blend, yeah. We've thought about we've talked about getting the pipe smokers of the whiskey chasers together and making our own blend. We all agree on like how much of this, how much of that, and to we make our own blend, which would be an interesting thing. It absolutely the only way to do that is to get these leaves on their own and smoke them straight.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:09

Absolutely. So,

Pipe Community Outreach And Closing Notes

SPEAKER_03 1:42:10

what I need to know is from our listeners how many of you guys are pipe smokers? Like, like, how do we need to like we are the whiskey chasers? Yeah, but this has become sort of a whiskey and pipe podcast. We have we have we have really joined the two.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:26

We have officially become and we've we've dat we haven't gone full board.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:31

We could talk way more about certain blends and what makes certain leaves.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:34

Uh we know that stuff, we just don't should we go talk about into the tobacco, or should we keep it kind of where it is, or just do the you know, have a few just a few episodes on pipe focused episodes? Do we take all of next year and trying to figure out the the blending? Do we need do we need do we need to add a pipe to our logo someplace and make it make it a combo of the two? That's interesting. Because uh, is this really a whiskey podcast, or is this a whiskey and pipe podcast? That is the question, and so that is I I I reck I need to know from you guys what that answer is. So uh at the top of our show notes is always a button that says uh text us. You can shoot us a text that tells us that you can shoot us an email, however you want to do it. But I'm curious how much pipe is really a factor here. Uh, and I'm gonna share this episode out in particular with a whole bunch of pipe Facebook groups.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:30

I'm also very curious. See how that how that works out. Yeah, I'm very curious about those that say I love this pipe or this tobacco. Can you pair it with a bourbon? Yeah, can you pair it with a whiskey? I would love to get requests. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:43

Smoke this and drink this and tell me what you think. I wouldn't even have a best opinion. Yeah, that'd be cool. I'd even go out and buy that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:52

Oh, yeah, right. Because as a pipe smoker, there is a little bit of a hole in the pipe smoking podcast world. Yes. Uh, there's there's Pipes Magazine that does an awesome show, and it's really good. And I hope you listen to it if you are a pipe smoker, but it is not the same thing as like what we're doing. Country Squire was an amazing podcast, and they did a really good job. And I buy a ton of stuff from them because of their podcast, but they no longer have a podcast. So I'm curious if we can kind of fill that gap for you pipe smokers out there. So, yeah. Uh, all right, cool. That's my ask to you. Send us something.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:27

Send us we're done.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:30

Till next time. All right, till next time. Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspumba.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.