Interview with Smokeye Hill Bourbon! A Colorado Bourbon with an Arizona Feel!

Welcome To Whiskey Chasers

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Hello while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

Meeting Smokeye Hill And The Lineup

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Good to meet you, Blake. And this uh Blake is the owner of Smoke Eye Hill. And it is Smoke Eye, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yeah, yeah, you got it. Smoke Eye Hill.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

And so, and you guys are not currently available in Ohio, correct?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

No, unfortunately, we're not. We're not. We're uh we're only in nine nine markets right now. We're continuing to grow and expand where we can, but we gotta make more whiskey. That's our problem. We don't have to. That's all right.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

And I know because Ohio is the way it is, it'll be one of the last ones. So, because it's kind of a pain to get into. But luckily, we have some connections into Indiana and some other places that hopefully we'll be able to get your uh get some stuff from you. But Smoke Eye Hill bourbon, we're drinking a combination of your bourbon and your cast strength bourbon, but you also have a rye, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

We do, we do cast strength rye.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Cast strength rye, excellent.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And it is cast strength rye. Go big or go home. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We don't mess around.

Colorado Climate And Proofy Aging

SPEAKER_01 1:28

You know, one of the things too is is with Colorado. I mean, the elevation, I think a lot of there's there's the environmental factors a lot of people don't talk about enough. There was actually a recent Forbes article that just came out, which was really cool because it shed light about or on some of these different aging environments. And in the highlighted Colorado, one of the things was it was saying is because as a drier climate, you know, the the water's gonna evaporate faster and get these really high-proof whiskeys. And so we fall into that category of having very high-proof whiskeys. And uh yeah, our rye is just right up there with the with the with the barrel-proof bourbon.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Nice, yeah, because that barrel proof there, what what is the proof on it? It's 140 something, I think, isn't it? Or is it 1230 something? Oh god. 132. 32, okay, yeah, yeah. So 132. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

It's up there, it's up there, but you know, which is good.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

We like that punch. And so I'm I'm currently drinking the just the regular five-year, and it still has a little bit of a punch to it at 92 proof, 93 proof. Um, but not an offensive punch. It's a nice, nice, smooth kind of, but you know it's there.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. No, I think it for us too, and like, you know, as a craft brand, obviously, you know, anyone who knows Smoke Out Hill is probably familiar with our barrel-proof products. Like again, the the the bourbon, you know, that kind of put us on the map. But, you know, as far as uh is a is an everyday drinker goes and kind of introducing the brand to some people that aren't after the 130 plus proof bourbons, we thought it was nice to have something that we could, you know, throw into cocktails, kind of an easy sipper. Um, you know, my my wife enjoys it. I enjoy it. Everyone, there's people that are like, I love that. It's my favorite whiskey you guys have. And uh, you know, it it is good. And and and 93, you know, I think is uh is a nice, a nice, you know, kind of it's about as low as we're ever gonna go as 93. Um, but you still get a lot of good flavor. It's the same whiskey as our barrel proof, it's just proof down.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Do a lot of your uh the barrel strength that you guys put out, do they stick around that 130 range or do they kind of go between like 120 to 130?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Oh, oh, let me tell you. They they can they can get up there. So I was just it's interesting because a lot of a lot of what we do too is our uh is is you know, we use these smaller 30-gallon barrels primarily. Um we do have 53s, we have we have a a way you know smaller amount of inventory of those, but those are designed to really go like really long term, like above like 10 like years or so. So with these 30-gallon barrels, you know, our entry proof is in the mid-120s, uh low, or I say low, low 120s. And so after a few years, like five years, we'll pull them out. You get a lot around 129 to 134-ish. And then like we have uh we've let our the oldest our barrels are in the 30 gallons right now, are coming up on eight years. And so we will be doing something uh to commemorate that that milestone. But some of those barrels I was just tasting through the other day, we had one that was as high as 147 um and one that was as low as like 132. So it there's kind of a wife, right? And that's all like currently it's about like seven and a half years. So you have you have a we have a lot hovering around 138, 139 around there. But yeah, at eight years, man, it's all it's it's high 130s getting into hazmat, um, which I hope makes some people happy. But the thing is too, is like it doesn't drink super, super hot, which is which is really nice, which you know, so take that for what it is. But yeah, they they they can get up there.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

That's one of the things we noticed with the barrel proof was it's like appropriate. Like that that proof is ripe for that. It doesn't drink like it's trying to be a heavy hitter. It's just like that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, no, thank you for saying that. Yeah, I think again, I think it's you know, I think when you um when you actually taste it, you know, it's yeah, and of course, a lot of people say, oh, it drinks, you know, a lot lower than the proof. But I do think there's something to be said for for these barrels, the look, you know, the the environment, even the 30-gallon itself, I think it imparts, you know, some some really great qualities too. And and at that age, um, especially that's that you don't normally get. But yeah, I mean, if if you have a hundred and you know, 35-proof whiskey that tastes like 145, like, you know, no one wants to drink that. So I think it's all about finding that nice like balance of like full flavor and approachability. And again, like for me too, and we tell people all the time, it's like, you know, for the I mean, obviously we're all we all know what we're doing when it comes to high-proof whiskeys, but you know, put some ice in there, add water to it. Like it's it's such a journey to for for people to experience this is what it comes out of the barrel out. This is the unadultered, like nothing done to it. And then, you know, that most whiskey that people drink is proof down. And I think there's just like the the people that aren't really big whiskey uh connoisseurs don't really understand how they can, you know, the whiskey does come out of the barrel so much higher than with what the bottle that they're buying usually is.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Yeah.

30 Gallon Barrels And Char Strategy

SPEAKER_03 6:56

The 30-gallon barrels is pretty interesting because you you source your products, so a lot of this stuff is is MGP or some other places, but um, so how did you get into 30-gallon barrels and you also mess around a lot with char because it looks like you're doing multiple layers of char. So, how did that come about? And like, what's kind of your reasoning for doing all that?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah, no, that's a good question. I mean, so our process is a little bit different, and we kind of take this hybrid, like kind of non-distilling producer approach, which is we found the right partner after doing a lot of research of saying a distilling partner, um, on who I thought could make like the best like whiskey we were after. I mean, I think that's the best value proposition, like for customers for myself. I was like, let's just let's have the best that we can, you know, the best, some of the best, obviously the best in the business, make this for us and do it to our specifications. So, what we did, we came to them and essentially we're like, okay, we want to do blue corn, we're gonna do this and we want to do that. Can you do it? They said, we'll get back to you. And then they came back and they said, Yes, we can. And so it's like, okay, great. So the process was just okay, we get the we get the raw distal at the white dog, put it out in big tankers, send it to us in Colorado. And then from there, it was okay, like we can do. I mean, really with the 30-gallon barrels, like we're like, okay, well, let's let's experiment with these and let's also do the 53s, which kind of tried and true. We knew that. And so um just through a little bit of like RD and kind of messing around, we're like, okay, wow, these 30-gallon barrels really do make some really great whiskey. And I think, you know, we don't look at look at or look at it like a shortcut. Like we, you know, we're not trying to release like two-year-old whiskey that tastes like it's 10 or anything like that. We're like, all right, like for a craft brand, five-year-old is a pretty solid like like age to release our first like core lightup. And could we make it better if we do smaller barrels? I mean, it's more expensive. It's a it's a we have to buy almost twice as many barrels. So like it's it's not like a uh shortcut in any way. And then with the chars, too, you know, having tasted through some char threes, some char fours and toastas and this and that, you know, if you're if you're doing that, you really can pick out a lot of different, you know, flavor characteristics and profiles from each one, you know. And so it kind of made sense in a way where, all right, let's get a little, I mean, we're already doing blue corn, we're already thinking outside the box, get a little crazy anyway. So why don't we just see if we can do a few of these other chars and then blend them together? And honestly, like the majority of them are char three and char four, and we have a select group of like char twos and char fives, but like the the the big majority are the threes and fours. But like, you know, if you go through and you taste them individually, they're fantastic, but they're all so unique. And it's it's a pretty wild experience. It's something I hope we can offer at some point of just like uh, you know, I've seen some people do it, which is like broken down. If we could have some sort of like blending kit or something, like I would love that because you can really experience the difference in all three of those or all four of those charts. But it kind of just was like, okay, let's just let's do this, let's see if we can find a great blend, put them all together and and go from there. And like, luckily, I think it kind of I think it worked out. It it really does, is the whole is better than the sum of its parts, in my opinion. So a little unorthodox, but you know, we're we're it works for us.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

See, that's what's great about craft distilleries, and that's what we love about them is you know, you guys are trying to innovate in a market that's been going on forever, you know what I mean? Something that like it's almost like is there anything more we can do? Guys are still finding ways to do more. We like that about craft.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, thank you. I mean, I I feel the same way. I think that's what's exciting, and that's like when I got into this, I was like, I don't want to, you know, there are like a few tried and true ways to do it. I was like, you know, that's not appealing. Like, there's a lot of great whiskies out there. What can we do that's kind of unique, but still like offers value like to the industry, you know, and and to into people buying a bottle. And that's why I was like, all right, like let's let's see what we can do. And and you know, from the blue corn to the barrels and this and that, like, you know, it's it's we like we like being a little outside the box, you know. Um, and it's just yeah, it's it's more fun, it's more interesting. And again, like hopefully, hopefully our customers and people like it when they try it, and you know, keep on, yeah, trying to push some boundaries if we can.

Why Blue Corn Bourbon Works

SPEAKER_02 11:44

But one of the things that we talked about at the beginning of the year was uh one of the predictions or things we wanted to see was distilleries using unique grains, and that heirloom blue corn, while blue corn isn't it's becoming more common, it's still not very common. Walk us through that process. Why why did you guys pick blue corn? Like what there's so many other coins out there. Like, what was what was the mentality behind it?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Right. Well, one, I have to be careful with the name just due to some uh agreements, but yes, I uh that distillery in question, you know, though yeah, came through for us and they've been amazing. Um, so the whole thing was Smokeye Hill, like I'm from Arizona originally. The name of Smokeye Hill, sorry, I'm gonna get I'm gonna give you the full story because there's no other way. It's gonna be bouncing, bouncing around here. So being from Arizona, you know, Smoke Eye Hill is the name. My family acquired a ranch in 1940, and it's like a still a functioning cattle ranch. It's been running for, you know, all these years since, and still in the family. And they found an old prohibition era still, my grandpa telling me the story. Um it was just rusted out. There wasn't much left over just a couple like rings and things like that. I'm part of the ranch called Smoke Eye Hill. So, you know, to me, I thought that was really fascinating. And that's what influenced the creation of the brand and like the identity, and like, you know, it kind of just came to me kind of following my roots a little bit and and uh doing something. I was, you know, if I'm gonna do this, I'm like, it's gotta be something that like has significant meaning to me. And and there's a cool backstory with like moonshiners in that area. And um, it happened before our family owned the ranch. So, you know, I we can't take any credit, unfortunately. But you know, they'd hang these cowbells on the next to mules when they got a tip from this local prohibition agent who would basically say, Yeah, we're coming fishing or whatever. And so they get the tip, they put the cowbells on the mules, they run through the hills like a warning system. So you hear the you hear the bells like run like hell, is what we like to say. So we took that, and that's important because that's kind of the the Arizona piece a little bit. And and growing up, you know, I was exposed to a lot of blue corn, like in the local cuisine. It was tortilla chips, it was pancakes, it was all sorts of things. And so to me, it was just something that I was like, all right, like this is great, it's delicious. I'm used to eating it. And when it came to um trying to ideate what Smoke Eye Hill would be, I was like, okay, like, you know, I always liked eating it when I was a kid. I'm sure, you know, it could be used pretty well, and like we're not the first ones to do it, right? There are other ones that are out there. But that was the initial idea was like, let's let's use it, but also let's use it deliberately and let's not like because there's part of me that's like, look, we I I I I'm all for like kind of existing outside the box and trying to, you know, do something unique and different, but not for the sake of that. It's got to be good. And so part of my part of my fear when we were developing the mash bill was like, I don't want to do 100% blue corn or 95% blue corn if it's gonna skew, it's gonna be too polarizing for any reason. I was like, let's let's let's I want it to be like a departure a little bit left or right of like the traditional bourbon like profile that people love, right? I didn't want to alienate the the the hardcore or bourbon consumers. So that's what was like, all right, let's add in all the other parts of the mash bill, like the yellow corn, the rye, malted barley. And so what we have is like over 51% blue corn, but then we also sprinkle in those other grains. And back to the distillery at hand, it was almost this like it was it was a combination of I think us saying, Hey, look, can you do this? Them just having done a few trials with some other heirloom grains prior for a university, actually. And they went well enough to where they were like, yes, we worked with these, we're comfortable with them. And if you want to do it, we can go ahead and do it for you. And so I think there was a little bit of like cosmic timing to this whole thing, too. You know, I think we had a good proposition. I think, you know, we were at the right place and the right time for that to come to fruition. And a funny story, I was talking to um, I don't think he'd mind me sharing this, but this uh, you know, David Perkins who founded High West years ago when I was, you know, because I I don't come from my background's not whiskey. So what I did was I just threw myself into podcasts and tried to read as much as I could, and Fred Minnick and Bourbon Pursuit guys and all those, and you know, you know, like people like you guys that are putting out amazing content for any for it, it's you can get an education in whiskey, you know, on Spotify or or YouTube or anything like that. Like you really can. And so I was connected to him through a friend, and he asked me, he's like, How did you get that that company to do blue corn? I was like, I kind of told him the same I told you guys, and he was like, That's interesting because that was basically my first initial idea for high west. Oh, that's interesting. Really, yeah, never thought of that, and and and and they said they couldn't do it at the time. So, you know, hey, you know, it worked out, it worked out well for him in the long run. Like they had a very, very successful run and still do. So I don't feel you know that awfully for him. But it was just uh it was an interesting story that kind of makes when I when I think about starting this company, how there was how kind of things just aligned in certain ways to allow an outsider like me to kind of find my way in. And just little things like that that I'm I can't believe I'm even sitting here, you know. So kind of kind

Grandpa’s Den And The Ritual

SPEAKER_01 17:31

of funny.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

In your story on your website and everything, and you're talking about how you got started and and sitting on your with your grandpa in Arizona there and smelling his bourbon and wanting to put out some sort of a quality product and really enjoying that. Do you happen to remember or know your grandpa? Did he have a brand? Was there or was it just kind of whatever he whatever he wanted at the time? Or was he kind of the one?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

It was it was yeah, it was like wild turkey or like Jim Beam usually. There's some Jack Daniels too, you know. But yeah, you know, I he had this cool room, and he would, you know, we're we're you know, come from a like, you know, ranching family and stuff. So there was a this wood panel room, and there's like, you know, some some trophy birds he had, and just like his it was like his cool little den and this hidden bar off to the side. And it was just like always had this glass in his hand, and just you know, it, you know, just one of those, like, and I'm sure, you know, it's just uh just a touching moment you have like with your grandparents when you're young, you're impressionable, and you're like, oh, this is cool, and of course I wanted to sip. And he's like, absolutely not. You know, it was it was uh yeah, it was just kind of one of those just moments, like, oh, you know, like this is I like this. And I think I realized it was just like that, kind of like that slowing down, like when you when you're sharing a uh uh you know a dram with someone, the you know, you kind of just settle in, life slows down a little bit, conversation gets going, and it's just kind of one of those like kind of the ah kind of relaxing moments. And so that was one of the things I kind of picked up on really early, was like that's kind of what this represented in a way. And then um, yeah, and that's when I, you know, I heard the story of like Smoke I Hill and and things like that. And so yeah, it was I I feel fortunate to have kind of had that times with him.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Yeah, we talk a lot about generations and and kind of how the older generation usually had like a brand, or they were just, you know, it was it was kind of whatever, and now people are more into this craft sort of deal where it's we want to try everything and we're we're looking for different flavors and looking for different things, but older generations tended to kind of stick to what they know, and so I was curious if there was a particular thing for him.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Well, we had, yeah, really on that, really quick. I know it's funny. We had we have a good friend who same thing, we're like, hey man, like you know, of course, we're you know, all of our friends are like, Hey, want to try your whiskey? Want to try whiskey? Like, sure, absolutely here, take a bottle home. And he's like, All right, my dad is only drinks Woodford. That's his that's like to that to your point. Only drinks Woodford. I want to see if I can get him to drink Smoke Eye Hill. And so now I'm happy to report that he has incorporated Smoke I'll into his repertoire. So now it's not exclusively Woodford. There is some Smoke Eye Hill in there too. But like it's yeah, the like it, I appreciate the brand loyalty. Like, you know, that's it's pretty awesome. Um, but yeah, there's so many great whiskeys out there. You're doing yourself a disservice if you're not out there trying a bunch of these awesome offerings from from people.

Tasting Rooms And Future Plans

SPEAKER_03 20:32

With everything kind of being based around your home ranch there in Arizona, do you guys have any plans of doing like a visitor center or a tasting room or anything like that in either Arizona or there in Colorado where you are?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, I mean, good question. I think for us too, that's one thing that we know that we are we're lacking, that we really, we really want to have that interaction. And there's so many great things we can do with that. Because right now our facilities are closed off to the public. So so to answer your question, yes, yes, we are. Um, and we get a lot of questions too of why don't you have your facilities in Arizona? Why are they in Colorado? And you know, when it came to making, like the story is part of it, but also the other half of that is like what's in the bottle has to be good. And our ranch, like, you know, it just it's the climate isn't the right thing. It's it's just like I don't think we could make nearly as good a whiskey as we do in Colorado. So that's what we kind of honed in on. It was really like, let's do what we can to make like, and I knew it had to be in the Southwest. I couldn't be Kentucky, although I love Kentucky. But yeah, so for us, like in, you know, one of my partners is from Colorado. So, and obviously that's that's what's on our label. You know, we wanna, we we do, we have kind of ambitious goals to do some fun like tasting rooms. And maybe both of those cities or states would be great one day. But yeah, I would say stay tuned because the next year or two. Like, I think we'll have we'll have something like that for sure.

Sourced Whiskey Stigma And Value

SPEAKER_02 22:05

As guys get into whiskey or people get into whiskey, one of the things they start looking for is do they make it or do they source it? And for a while there's been this there has been this stigma of sourced is bad. If they source it, they don't care. They didn't put any time or effort or really anything into it. You're you're probably the first craft distiller that we've talked to that has flat out sourced, but has had a huge hand and what goes into it and and they then the aging process and the change in that. Walk us through, like as you hear someone say, well, the stigma is sourced as bad, what would you how would you guys view it now that you guys are kind of in it and you've had a question?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

I would say if you want to pick something apart, any brand, you can find a million reasons to do so. I think, you know, really if you pay attention to the landscape of whiskey right now and even craft whiskey, there's some amazing producers out there that are doing some incredible things with blending and finishing. And they're straight up sourcing a lot of the same barrels that other people are, but it's kind of not what you got, it's how you use it, kind of thing. So I think part of it's what you got, obviously. But for us, I think that like you're starting to see this kind of like you know, if you're judging the whiskey just based on the whiskey alone, which is how you should judge a whiskey, I think that it's kind of easy to dispel some of the hate and just say, and again, it's because there's been a lot of people, and you look at like some very big brands out there, like I don't want to name them, but like they've done, they've based their whole business model on just doing finishes or doing just be finding these kind of you know, little barrels here and there that might be a little different or you know, something unique about them that not, you know, you we could all three probably go pick or all four of us or sit down and probably pull different barrels that we like based on our own profile that would all be different from each other uh if we were to to go and taste through a whole bunch. And so I think I think if people pay attention to like, you know, look more into the story of who's behind it, what's happening, not just, oh, it's just off the shelf. I think, you know, you can you should get past a lot of that hang up of of and I will say it goes the other way too. Like, you know, just because you make it yourself, which I have so much um admiration for for true craft distillers that are, you know, you know, growing their own grains or sourcing locally and and making their, you know, distilling their own. Hell yeah, like you deserve a round of applause. Okay, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a better whiskey. There's so many other variables along the way that are important too. And so um that's why I think is that the value proposition is what's in the bottle. Like, make the best whiskey you can. And also, I would I can on a tangent, obviously, you can tell.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

We like it.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

You kind of know the benchmark of what you're gonna get too. If you're like, hey, like this is sourced from here or there, you you can pretty much know that like it's not gonna suck if you're debating buying this or another. Like, I feel like you know, for us, part of the thing that we have to kind of sell people on as a new brand is that you know, we don't suck. So, you know, like that that can be hard to do when you when in a very crowded landscape, you know. So um there's a lot to it. Just the more the more you can educate yourself on like everything behind the brand, uh the better you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

This whole podcast came out of a club, and so there's we get together every month and we open a bottle and it's it's all themed for the year. And we did a whole year of just source bottles, and our our for that exact reason, it was uh figuring out, you know, does that matter all that much? Does it not matter? What all that, and every different people had different opinions on the whole thing and which ones are their favorites and which ones weren't. But we all said that as long as the company is doing something to the whiskey, so you guys are aging it, you had a hand in in the mash bill, all that, that makes it yours. Uh, and so that makes it so that it's not like you're just a white labeler, you're not just throwing somebody else's stuff into your bottle, you're you're doing something to make it yours. And as long as you're doing that, then there is something that makes it special to you. And that's kind of how we've always looked at sourcing.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah, and just also like what makes the brand what it is, too. Kind of like what he's been talking about. That's it's another thing that we like to talk about on this podcast, um, and with the club, is is you know, the history of the brand, why it got started, why are they why are they producing what they're producing, and why are they going like making this approach or that approach? That kind of stuff is what we really get interested in, even more so than you know, the flavor profile and everything, which we do really appreciate, you know what I mean, the taste of it, obviously. Uh, but we but we really geek out over like what makes this company tick.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, yeah. No respect. I think that that's that's the right way to look at it too. And I think you guys shining a light on all these different producers like ourselves is is amazing and like really appreciate you guys doing that in the whiskey clubs. And you know, it's it's pretty remarkable. Again, I pitch myself all the time that I even get to do this and sit here and talk to you guys. But I'm like, someone's someone made this comparison to the like whiskey heads are basically like sneaker heads. It's like we care about every little nuance, every release, every this, everyone's up on it. And I'm like, I can't think of very many other industries or or products that people have that level of dedication, that you're willing to like, you know, sleep in a lawn chair to get a release, like in the you know, in the middle of the winter to get this special thing. And like it, it's awesome. But again, like, yeah, I mean, at like to me, that that's 100% it. Like, you know, shining a light on that, like, you know, the story behind some of these things and why why they are and having platforms like you guys for for people like us or myself to to tell those stories is is is so important. So yeah, thanks.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

And we went through uh Steve talking about the year of sourcing for the club. We went through 12 different bottles that were all sourced. And there were several that I remember going through going, man, this is this really isn't because we also talk about the price tag. Like, is it worth the price tag? Because one of the big big themes for the sourcing was not is it good or is it bad, but is it worth it? Like, is it worth the price tag for what you're drinking, for what you're trying? Is it worth it from beginning to end? And talking about flavor with just the barrel proof alone, this is one that I wish we would have had for that year because this blows this blows a lot of them that we had out of the water. And we had some some highly sought after sourced bottles that guys were talking about on Facebook or on clubs, like, oh, you gotta have this, you gotta have that, and we're you know, 80, 90, 100 plus bottles, and guys are trying to go, why? Like, what's the point? Like, why did people want this? I don't get it. And you look at this and you're like, okay, I've never heard of you guys, but then you try and you're like, Why have I never heard of you guys? Like, why can't I find this? Because that's really disheartening that I can't find this now.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Because it's it's it's so good. Well, thank you. Thank you. Well, that you just hit the nail on the head, in my opinion, too. When you're talking about that and comparing these brands, it's the value, yeah, and and the price. And so, again, back to how I feel like educated, you know, at least the audience is listening to us talk right now, so educated on what's going on. And it's like, yeah, like with it, and we get that too. Like, why should we spend, you know, basically 90 bucks on your bottle and compared to this or that? And and so, you know, that you can't be everything to everyone all at once. And so there's, you know, we know kind of where we exist and and you know but but yeah, like again, it's it's it to me, it's it's trying to, it's that value proposition. What are we offering? If if we had charging 90 bucks and had the same just whiskey, the off the you know, rack house shelf, whatever is is A, B, C, and D brands, then yeah, like it's not gonna get us very far. And I knew that. I was like, we have to do something different and unique. And I got advice along the way when I was trying to start this of asking people, hey, like, give me some, give me some like tips and success. What should I, which, you know, what should I do? What should I not do? Like, I reached out to you know, Mark Brown, the uh Sazerac, and who has that industry letter. He had to email him to get on the on his on his email list. And he responded back. He's like, hey, like personally, he's like, hey, yeah, like welcome to the you know, eat the newsletter and put you on there. And I was like, oh my God, he actually answered in person. This is insane. So I was like, all right, now's my shot. Let me shoot it, see what happens. I was like, hey, could you give me, now that I have you, would you mind sharing like any, you know, tips of success that I could like maybe use? I'm I'm starting this, hope to start this bourbon company or whiskey company, like blah, blah, blah. And he responded back and he gave me some great advice that I still like need today. And it's basically was like, you know, try and do something to differentiate yourself uh on the shelf. Said get honest feedback from like people around you, like listen to that. And then, you know, was it was don't try and grow too big too fast and try and like kind of own the markets that you're in when you're starting off. And so, you know, some of that, like I it's it was good advice at the time. I think it's still a lot of that still still rings true. And um, you know, and I emailed them not too long ago. I was like, hey, you know, I haven't talked to you since, but like, you know, you told me this advice almost eight years ago and longer actually when I started this, and I was like, I just wanted to say thank you again because like you know, we actually have whiskey now, we've won some awards and this and that. There was this cool one. He's like, Oh, congratulations, that's awesome. So, you know, I went off on a tangent. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

We

Cigars Pipes And Not Being Pretentious

SPEAKER_03 32:50

do that a lot. We do. Yes, it's all right.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Sorry, you're all good. We like the tangents. Let me have another sip here. Well, why are you while are you sipping? So we we got uh by the way, thank you for the hats. We got hats from you guys. They're probably some of the great the classiest hats that we've gotten from.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

We get compliments all the time on those things, and SH is my initials, so it's like fantastic. We we also got uh just for you, for you, Steve.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

We got some matches from you guys too. A matchbook. Uh, do you guys like cigars? Are you guys pipe guys? What's what's the reason behind that?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Okay, good question. So, yes, I'm a big cigar guy, and funny enough, is um, Chris, I see, you know, you smoking your pipe, and like, you know, if you look at my, if I go to my like algorithm on like social media, which I'm not active on at all, it's whiskey, it's cigars, and it's like pipes. And I don't even smoke a pipe, but I found myself very recently wanting to start smoking pipes. And I've done all sorts of research and like gone down the rabbit hole of talking about different aromatic blends and different pipes and different shapes and how to treat a pipe and this and that. Like, I don't even smoke one, but like I want to. So um, the last one I smoked, I think when I was like 18 years old, and I was just trying to, you know, figure out what's going on and have fun. And it's like a corn cob pipe or something dumb. But yeah, but um I I want to, and then cigars, yes, like they're big fan of cigars. End of the day, cigar and whiskeys, you can't name a better combo in life. I I dare you. Um, peanut butter and jelly, maybe, but like, you know, those, yeah, big cigar guy. And with those matches, like one thing that we're we're doing with the brands, like we we take making whiskey extremely seriously, but we also try not to take ourselves too seriously in the process. And so we're a really small team. Um, but that's like let's let's like make some like cheeky matches. And like, you know, we just do those at events, we hand them out, we throw them out, and it's like, you know, I don't know, it's just like a fun thing to do. Save water, drink bourbon, kind of kind of saying. And I like that. Um yeah, unfortunately, though, I feel like when you're smoking a cigar or a pipe, like you need something a little heftier than those little matches. You're gonna need like a nice, nice torch or flame or something.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

But I still use matches now and then, especially for a pipe, matches are still king, I think. But I'd I'd recommend definitely getting into a pipe. So I smoke cigars pretty often, you know, probably three or four times a week, I'd say. Um, and I love cigars, but I mean, really, um, when you're talking about flavors and like really trying to pick up on nuances and the and the variation and variables and stuff, that's pipe tobacco. I mean, because you don't get a whole lot, in my opinion, of of variation. I got a ton of cigars and I love them, but it's very minute little changes. Pipe tobacco, it's a lot more, it's vast.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

I love it. I love it. Well, Chris, you're leaving the charge back to make to make pipes relevant again. So make pipes great again.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

We normally this we've we've thought about adding a pipe to the logo because both Chris and I are usually smoking on every episode, and so and we usually add that in and kind of kind of talk about the what we're smoking and and how it how it matches and how it goes goes together. So it's become a big part of the podcast now.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

I I love that. You should definitely put it in the logo. And yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna offline and get you all's recommendations for a good like starter kit and tobacco and all that stuff. But yeah, we'll get you going. I mean, again, it's like light, yeah. Thank you. No, it's it's like it's it's yeah, like life kind of slows down. You can take a breather, like it's you know, it's a 30-minute 45-minute break from everything, and it's hard to explain just for the people that that don't do it, like what that brings. And that's that's what I love about it. Uh the ritual, the everything about it. Same thing with making a you know, pouring a whiskey or you know, going through the process. Um, yeah, big, big fan.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

It's the reason we don't talk a ton about the flavors of the whiskeys and stuff, because we're smoking, we're we're drinking out of rock's glass, not Glenn Karen's. We're not like pulling out these delicate flavors. We don't we don't want to be pretentious, but we love that ritual. It's it's it's all about slowing down and enjoying the drink, enjoying the smoke, enjoying whatever it is. That's what it's meant for.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Conversations that come out of it.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Everything. I agree. I agree. I know I've had some of the my my favorite conversations, and again, like this kind of reminds me, Liz, you know, your room, like, you know, make it like 1950s style with some some wood on the walls. This is basically like my grandpa's like little study that like when I would yeah, guns on the wall, and it was it was that's that was my first introduction to this. So it's cool to kind of, yeah, like that. It it's it's that it's that feeling. It's the everything you just said. It's what what it what's great about

From Indie Rock To Whiskey Founder

SPEAKER_01 37:56

it.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

You said so you're you're fairly new to the whiskey business. I mean, other than you've been doing this now for what, eight years or something like that. But what was your your life pre-wiske? What were you what was your career?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah, yeah. So good question. So I was, I took a very non-traditional route to get here. I think in hindsight, I would have, I mean, it's hard to say if I did anything differently, I probably wouldn't have ended up right where I am. But um, no, I mean, I was I professionally out of school, I had the genius idea to pursue music. And uh, and so I was a I was a guitarist and a singer in like a like indie rock band. And uh, you know, I moved to LA at the time, and it was like, okay, let's, you know, I have my previously from from Arizona. My parents split up. I have a dad that's my dad's in Los Angeles. So it was like, all right, let's go chase those dreams. And so I did that and very quickly realized, I was like, you know, we had like like a little bit of like local success and toured around, and it was it was fun. It was very much along like the like kind of indie rock, kind of like the killers kind of stuff like in the mid-2000s. Yeah, so it was kind of like that, and I played guitar and I sang, and you know, I I don't talk about this that often, but you know, it kind of was like I'm like when it came with creating the whiskey, I was like, I just I kind of have this like kind of creative bug just to get in and tinker around and try and do shit. And sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But that was what I first did. And after that, you know, I had a good run and I was like, this is not really a life that I want to lead, you know, like I'd want to have a family one day and get married and like not live on the road. And that, you know, I liked the drinking part of the job. I tasted a lot of whiskey, which is probably what, you know, helped shape my my my taste later. And then from there, you know, I I I kind of just I went from that to like working, you know, honestly, with with uh with my dad, who has a you know, uh kind of health and wellness company and and trying to figure out, okay, like I do I want it to eventually like have my own business and like I wanted to try and kind of learn all these different avenues. And and so I was I was thrown in the marketing department and trying to learn how to kind of sell some potions and lotions and stuff to middle-aged women. And I, you know, I I learned I learned a lot, you know, of of you know, like I would do like um, you know, like market research studies, which I've always found was like really fascinating and like they're gonna launch something or this or that. Like, okay, like why do people I was like, why do people like certain things, like certain behaviors of like why people might be, you know, might want to buy something over something else. And I think that also helped me too, kind of like when I was creating Smoke Eye. And then from there I was like, okay, this is fun, but like, you know, I need to do something else. And it was like, you know, I have, you know, I I followed some other family steps and started doing some real estate stuff, work with my brothers, had a great time. Like, that's when I kind of learned what to like really kind of running your own business and like what that kind of looks like, and and being responsible for all these different aspects and and different, you know, uh everything it takes to to do that. And got to a point where I had kind of done enough in in that to have a little bit of pocket change and you know, was like, all right, like I could do this my entire life and and be okay, but like I wasn't as I would this was like my passion. I was like, one day I have to do this. And I very I started to figure out like that it was it was in it was in whiskey and it was in, you know, doing what we're what I'm doing now, and so then it became like I didn't have a family at the time, I didn't have anything, so I was I was able to kind of again just make kind of a crazy pivot and put everything I had and scrounced from family and friends and was able to kind of get this everything going. And you know, and in the process too, was like we get the barrels down in 2018, and I just like rapidly devoured any sort of like information that I could and talked to people and founders and listened to every podcast that I could and read everything, and so again, there's a great wealth of like information available if anyone has the itch to do this, and so many different ways to go about it. And so when I kind of figured out like what Smoke Isle Hill could be, as it started to take shape, I was like, Oh, I'm I'm gonna put everything on this and I'm gonna give it my shot. And and then, you know, I had to wait patiently. I was still doing some other odds and ends in between there. And you know, then COVID happens and everything, and I was like, okay, like finally we're able to to launch in 24. A roundabout, very roundabout, uh yeah, back backstory.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Like COVID wasn't um wasn't easy on anybody, yeah, especially distilleries getting started around that time.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

No, it's not, it was not, but but speaking of when you guys got started till now, you've got we have two products in front of us,

Building A Rye With Blue Corn

SPEAKER_02 43:19

right? We got your barrel strength and we got the the 93 proof. You all and you also said that you have a rye, a barrel proof rye, barrel proof rye. Is it barrel proof rye? That's exciting, it's very exciting. I'm very excited for that. Um, do you know the mash bill? Is this a 95.5? Is it something similar to what you guys do for the bourbon?

SPEAKER_01 43:38

So so what we what what we do, it's similar to the bourbon, but with this, again, we will get the raw distillate. We buy the raw distillate with the white dog, and we'll take it out. And I really like the way these 30 gallon barrels develop. So we'll buy the we'll buy the white dog and we'll put in our 30 gallon barrels. And in this case, it would be, yeah, like. a traditional 95.5 but again white dog right so we put it in we barrel it ourselves we do the 30 gallon barrels and when i first was deciding because it's a blended it's a blended um right i didn't know how much blue corn to put in i knew that like with smoke eye hill like our identity is is you know is kind of built around the blue corn and my backstory of Arizona and everything so I didn't know at exactly at what point or how much like blue corn would make this thing like hum and sing. And so that's what we did we laid down the the 30 gallon barrels of the 955 again raw distillate and then when it got a certain age like okay let's get in the lab let's start playing with different blends like kind of see like what's going on and at that point too we're like okay we'll we'll put in we'll put in our bourbon and essentially played around a few different chars on what that you know would look like for the rye and came up with something that where it's it's a it's a bourbon drinker's rye am I it's not it's it's first of all it tastes nothing like any other 955 that you'll have we get these extreme like honeyed um kind of notes to it there's there's there's it it's unidentifiable from anything else of 955 that you're probably used to and with yeah and and with and with the blue corn too like all that in there it is it is you know gone pretty pretty bananas and it is of I mean um I it's it's a product I'm really proud of because I I wasn't sure how it was going to come together. And when we got it right it was just like oh I I just knew I was like this is this is a great product. We don't have that much of it like it was very limited this year and it will be for the next few years but it really stands out and you know I was happy to see it get some love like we did um like in the Ascot Fred Minnesota ascot awards this year like it's in a taste off with Thomas H. Handy for for best American rye um so that's pretty cool. Yeah I mean I'm like I don't know if we're gonna win it or not like it'd be great if we did but even to be in that conversation I'm like I feel like for a small craft brand that's that's cool to be in a you know in in that company um so you know little things of just like okay we're like we're on the right path like that's you know and we're you know a quarter of the price at least of what that product goes for you know so um yeah but yeah I want you guys to try it I will send you a bottle yeah and then um I hope you guys enjoy it. We're big guy guys so okay okay yeah well then you definitely have to have it.

Finishes To Try And New Releases

SPEAKER_01 47:05

So anything any plans for the future with do you are you guys doing looking to do anything else besides you know those three or yeah yeah no I'm glad you asked that too so what was what I wanted to do with with smoke eye hill too was just make sure that like we didn't hide behind any blending or finit well finishing I should say like to so I want I wanted to give our our core products a shot to say hey our whiskey is good with just like the mash bill and our process like let's start with that people like that that I know are bl our finishes and some of these specialty stuff will be will be great. And so yeah so that's the plan. So we do have quite a few things in the works I'm really excited about. And again like with the blue corn and with what we're doing there's not a lot that's been done uh in the open market that like I've seen that kind of has some of that or so I'm excited that we can kind of again kind of innovate a little bit with us and and you know I mentioned the eight year we will be having a very small release of what we're calling our heritage reserve which will be um uh we're we it you know be eight years old the majority of our of our barrels um and kind of figure out it'll be it'll be a blend because I think I've just I'm having too much fun like putting you know doing all this and like my favorite option I've had is is you know has a lot more of our rye in it. And so I don't know we're waiting to see what that's going to turn out to but it's gonna be phenomenal and then um and it'll also be pretty high proof as well. And then yeah I mean you know we got maybe have some double oak stuff coming up we might have some you know this some toasted some you know you name it but I mean we're kind of kind of just playing around you know and seeing it and some will be really small release and we'll just see how you know people like it and you know go from there.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

But um I mean can I ask you guys a question because you guys are experts like what are you really into as far as finishes and stuff goes I mean do you guys because there's there's so much there's so much cool innovation coming out like I've I'd love your all's feedback on what you guys I mean you kind of asked the right guys um because we're big into finishing what's it was interesting when you were talking about the different stuff that you you guys are looking towards doing um as I had a sip of the barrel proof I just thought man an armignac finish or like a cognac finish on this would be I mean that's a tried and true I I love anything finished in cognac or brandy barrels but you know what I really want to see on the market and you and you actually talked about high west earlier um but Yippie Kaye was always a big I was always a big fan of which is gone but nobody's doing like for mouth finishes that's what I want I want to see something like that.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

That would be interesting right yeah what's what's interesting when you get into like the whiskey community those that are like hardcore into it and love collecting love sharing you start talking about finishings and you're like oh double octave like oh cool like that that's that's fun uh it wood for it does it cool but then you get into the ones are doing like uh vino denraha finishes and they're like what is this and how how do I how do I get my hands on it how do I try it we we had one that was a cherry brandy finish. They were like I've never had a cherry brandy finish I want to try that you get into this realm of the guys that are like I've had good whiskey now I want to see what good whiskey that can be blended well what it's like with a good finish and just a unique finish something that's gonna change it's gonna change it drastically we had one I had one the uh last week that was a barley wine finish and that one was like what what the heck what what is going on right now and the like the distillery I got it from is very like they're very craft very like uh dusty barn kind of um very soft but uh very earthy at the same time so you add in the barley wine and it brought about the sweetness that wasn't there before and you're like this you did you guys buy this barrel from someone else like this is not yours right like there's no way this could be yours because it changes everything yeah it just changes everything drastically to where like you you now created a product that can be an introduction to someone that says oh their stuff was a bit too earthy or a bit too much for me and you try that and you're like is this from the same one this can't be from the same one now I want to try other stuff they have so you can get some you can get some pretty interesting yeah unique didn't we try a muscadine wine finish no you want the muscadine wine that's just what I want nobody's ever done that I love muscadine wine yeah that sounds really good now let me ask another question too though when you're drinking those I mean because there's a whole thing too is like look we're known for our like barrel proof products primarily what proof we could do anything from barrel proof is like or we could do down to anything in between I mean they're all tasting delicious I've had a whole different realm but I'm just curious again as we're kind of it depends on the finishing yeah all three of us like high proof if it's a nuanced finish then you might have to go lower yeah just because it overpowers we also took a whole you we we mentioned uh for the club we took a year of sourced we also did a year of finishings so we went through a whole year of several different finishings and very unique ones and ones that may have been done before but not like this and um I mean we got we got to try the Vino de Noraha we got to try what was the other one from Middle West that was like the oh that one was uh it was another unique Spanish wine or some kind of unique uh I don't remember what it was it was uh they were supposed to get that one and it was a mistake um but we we've gotten to try I got to try a blueberry uh blueberry wine finish uh that oh wow that one uh Starlight did uh Starlight Distillery in Indiana did a blueberry wine finish yeah yeah Starlight's great that one was unique because you take their like their stuff and put it into blueberry wine and you're like okay you you got something dry compared to something sweet and it it really brought about this unique and they did a higher proof um so it brought about this you like unique sweet but it was almost like a blueberry pie.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

It was it was super interesting I always lean on the on the proofier side but I I think it depends on the finishing.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Absolutely yeah I think it depends too but I was just curious yeah I mean that's the that's there's it's just so great about like craft too I mean you're seeing some of the big guys start to do it now following a lot of the craft producers' leads and this and that but like there's there's so much out there right now and really cool finishes. Now the the question is can you get your hands on it because a lot of these things you can't you can't unless you're like distillery visit and grab it.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

But yeah that's the only that's the only tough thing it was um it's been interesting for finishings um we went we talked to Wiggle Whiskey out in Pennsylvania and they do a um a scotch a used scotch barrel for finishings for their rye they don't put that out at cast strength that's lowered because they tried it at cask and they're like this is this is too much overpowering it was overpowering and then we had uh the the cherry brandy finish that we had was at cat it was at a certain proof I forget what it was but it wasn't cast strength but it was higher proof it was just watered down just a little proof down just a little bit and we all said that had it been proof down more it would have been too cherry. But had it gone too high in proof you may have not had that cherry flavor that was there.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

So it's it's very interesting like looking at that of like okay what am I playing with flavor wise and what am I really looking for hoping for with a finish do I want it to overshadow the the bourbon do I want it to play well do I what am I looking for and it's it's been interesting watching companies try to figure that out too we've had a couple of versions of the peted bourbons and rise and we're we're big fans and we're also scotch guys but uh really really enjoy that nice I think what makes it special though too is you know there's a there's a risk involved that it might not pan out right so any I think anytime a craft distillery especially does like a unique finishing there's this you know risk portion to it that's like man if this hadn't worked out they were out all that you know and and I think when it turns out good that's what makes you appreciate it even more. And now it's limited as well which is like oh man you know special edition you know uh gotta get it while it's there yeah you know but I I think that people appreciate that even more that they took a leap of faith and did this unique thing that it might not have panned out you know yeah well that's good to know we might have a contact for you yeah we we might we might have a contact for a local a distillery out in Pennsylvania that's done finishings and they've played around with it um and they've become good friends of ours on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

So I I okay I bet they'd be willing to talk about like because they've done like triple finishings before and like really unique stuff. They're the ones that do peted whiskey or pet rise and Peter Bourbon. So they've thrown that into like a triple finish. And so you talk about like what's good and what's not good and how do I decide to proof it down barrel they've gone through all of this of trying to figure that out experimenting and it always changes I I think they walk in with not a proof point in mind as much as a flavor that they're they're hoping

Where To Buy And Final Cheers

SPEAKER_02 56:39

for at the end.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

And it's they're trying to achieve yeah and it's a very interesting yeah all right well hey we really appreciate you taking this time to talk with us and do all this and everything else it's been a blast chatting uh but I want to throw the ball into your court though to tell our audience anything you want to about what you got going on.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

How do we get a hold of your bottles uh what's what's in the future how do how can our audience connect with you and we'll put all the socials all that kind of stuff in the in the show notes but I appreciate that well first of all thank you guys for having me again I had a blast as well this could easily uh turn it into a way longer podcast than I think we all wanted again because it's very easy to talk to you guys but yeah I mean again the the we're we're you know I'm Blake with Smoke Eye Hill you can find us um online at www.smoke eye hill I mean we are we are not available in every state but you you can pretty if if your state allows uh shipping and we're not in one of your states then I would encourage you to do that we actually are literally about to launch uh a web store where you can buy directly from us online which is nice and easy and um have some great partners helping us with that and uh yeah you know some of the big retail stores some of the I mean all we're we're you know still trying to to reach uh more markets and so if you if you'd like smoke I hill in your area your liquor store let them know let us know um we want to be where people want us and um yeah I would just say stay tuned follow us I mean we have our our social channels our Instagram you know you can stay up to date with what we have going on we'll we'll continue to do any new releases or any you know fun activations things like that um you kind of just just follow us through that but otherwise guys I mean it's been a true pleasure to join you guys and to talk a little a little bit about what we do and thank you for the opportunity and again for your time.

SPEAKER_03 58:35

Yeah we appreciate it. All right well thank you like I said we will put all the socials and everything else in the show notes so that way everyone can get a hold of you and uh thank you again and so cheers till next time. Cheers my pleasure thanks for having me cheers guys thank you thank you for listening to the podcast if you want more great content and other perks be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website whiskey tasterspumba.com with any ideas for the show. Thanks again