Weller 107!

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Oh, while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Little Penzance actually. In a mirsham. There's a I'm trying to, I'm Googling it right now because penzance means something. It's I can't remember now what it is, but uh it almost means something like um serendipity. You know what I mean? It means something. But it also is like there's like the root of that word is an area, and it's called holy headland. But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. But you can use you can use penzance in a sentence. And I just can't think of what it means right now. Penzance.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

And penance is uh burley blend, right? Or is it straight burly?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

It's balkan.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I'm sorry, Balkan.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah, Balkan. Yeah, so uh a lot of a lot of Orientals, uh Heavy English, a lot of Orientals. Uh, what makes Penzance the like unicorn, the hard to get thing, is because it's made in very small quantities uh over in the UK somewhere. I can't remember where it was. Very, very, very old machinery with a very secret old recipe that they have never uh released. Um and it was supposedly uh it was supposed to be a remake of the original Balkan Sabrini, which is a storied legendary blend uh that came out a long time ago that people smoked and went nuts over and became legend and famous. Uh uh I think it became more of a concept that you know, people were like, it's never gonna be as good as this Balkan Sabrini. Nothing in the world would be. It became this like thing, you know what I mean? The symbol. Um, so whoever came up with the recipe for Penzance made it after this Balkan Sabrini, kept it secret, uh, made on very old machinery with the very best ingredients, very limited quantities, all handmade stuff. So it's it's it's always been limited, it's always been hard to get. Came over, um, and it's just amazing. Yeah, you know, when you when you pop a tin of penzance, it comes out super dark in in these flakes that are broken and wet and amazing and malted. What we're smoking is out of my decanter. So it's actually been quite changed because it's it's it has been broken up that I broke it up, I rubbed it out, and it's been uh dried. So it's easier to smoke. But if you were ever to smoke, I have a few tins of it, but if you're ever to pop and smoke a tin, it's kind of hard because it is so wet and malted, but it's an experience like you've never had. There's a reason why it's like the absolute. Like this is the Pappy Van Winkle of uh pipe tobacco. There is no better than Penzance, and it's not just me saying that, it's like the the world over knows this. So it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Well, what we're smoking is very good, it's just different because I've I've I've altered it, but it is very good.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

And uh to go with it, we're drinking um Weller Antique. Yes, Weller 107. Yeah, is that what people usually do people say well or antique, or do people say well, Weller 107 or both?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Weller 107 or Weller Red is what I've Weller Red, Weller Antique.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

I think antique. I think what's funny is people don't say Weller Antique, they'll say antique Weller. You've heard that, I don't know, but uh that's what's what I say, it's what other people say. Weller red, weller red is the big thing because people people get confused between antique and special reserve, but they all say uh uh red or weather green, you know what I mean? Or old Weller. I've seen a lot of people be like old Weller Antique, but even old weather is what which one is that? Special reserve, antique 107?

SPEAKER_02 3:56

It's one of them, it's old, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Very seldom do people call that special reserve, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

It's always well or green, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

And then uh antique weller. I think most people say antique.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

I hear a lot of Weller 107.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So our last one for the special reserve. Uh, I said that I had never had it before. You guys corrected me and said I had because we we did for the first year of the club. Uh, so I had had it, and it was uh just just it was very good for what it was, but it's a basic drink. This is the next level up, right? And so this is the next one up. This is the one that people really go after.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

This is the one that people trade like crazy and go after, yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

They'll trade for it. What is like the secondary price on this one? And and what's the secondary price on the green one? It was like around a hundred, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

So the Weller 107 will be close to 100. Weller green will probably be close to 80, I would say 75. But Weller 107 is big, and the people aren't gonna pay secondary, people are not incredibly stupid when it comes to secondary prices for this. They know what they have, but they'll trade it. That's what doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So in like the trading world, and I I could be wrong, but Brendan tried telling me this at one point because he's big into like the trading, right? So, like the Weller, um, the Weller Reserve or Weller Red trades, like in trading world is like close to 80 bucks, if I remember right, which makes no sense to me. I think it's close to 80 or 90. And then Weller Green is like 40 or 50. Okay, and Eagle Rare might be like 50, okay, 50 or 60. So it's like it's almost like it jumps up a little bit if you're trading, but if you want cash for it, it loses cash value. Okay, but it gains cash value, it gains like value-wise if you're trading.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

And MSRP on this one is closer to 50, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:58

I know it might be close to 75.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

It's gone. Now it's gone up. Inflation has gone up. What you don't see people doing is drinking it. No, you really don't. You really don't. Like they trade it around, you'll see it here and there unopen, but nobody drinks it, which is stupid. I think it's because it's one of those things that like once it's opened, it loses all its value to people. Like, not to me. Uh, it's good. Like, drink it, you know what I mean? But um you don't see that, you don't see it open in bars very often, you don't see it on the you know on people's shelves. Um, but people have cases of it stored away for trading.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Yeah, it's ridiculous. And like people will trade like 30 Weller reds for this one bottle. So like we're we're getting them like so it's like cash. Yes, it really is like cash. It's ridiculous. Like, and I I don't I don't know why, because it's just traded as currency to trade for something else, so it's not like trading to open, it's trading to trade, trade, trade, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Which is stupid because it's good, it really is becoming a currency. It really is, yeah. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

It's good, it's good to drink, but it's it's we it's just weird that that's become the currency that people that whether you like it or not, it's good enough that people think uh this is like money.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Well, I think it's good enough and hard to find that people are like, oh, this is now money. Well, that's what I mean. Like any, like that anybody would want it.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Like if you know, and that's the whole idea of currency, right? Is it means it's universally appreciated, yeah. That's what currency is.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, so like on the nose, just smelling this, it smells very similar to the green, but enhanced. Yeah, it's just a little bit brighter, like there's more uh boulder, I guess, not brighter, bolder.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

It's funny because so I don't know if you knew this, Chris or not, or Steve. Weller 107 up until 2000, roughly 2009, early 2000s, it had an age statement on it.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

It was seven years old. I don't remember ever seeing an age statement, which is funny because we were talking about people thinking that Weller Green was uh seven years old or eight years old.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

So Weller 107 used to have a seven-year-old age statement, it is now gone. They no longer put so I don't know if it's still seven or if it's blend or why they took it off, really. But they took it off, it's no longer there. But you're talking now the only difference since we don't know age is proof point between Weller Reserve and Weller 107. What we don't know is it I've always wondered. Is it is it the same magical? Are we like 100% the same? All the Wellers are the same, just different age and proof point. So Weller Reserve is 90, Weller 107 is 107, yeah, Weller Fool is 114, and then you got Weller 12. So we're not talking like an extreme amount of difference between all of I mean the biggest jump is probably from 90 to 107, but then you jump from 107 to 114 for foolproof, but then you're also talking the price drastically changes between Weller 107 and Weller Full, even though MSRP is not that different from each other. Secondary jacks up.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

We're talking like three to four hundred dollars for Weller foolproof from Weller and it it's the only difference is proof point, it's always been um more expensive, but it makes me wonder if it if age comes into play a little bit more as well, whether it doesn't have the statement on there anymore. People know that uh the antique in antique 107 means it's not only 107, but it's aged uh more so than probably double that of the green, which is what I surmised. I remember saying I was through three to four years on the green, probably seven to eight years on the red.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Which then makes me wonder is weather foolproof higher age or just full if it's just I think it's the same.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I think I think having weather foolproof, I would say it's the same thing at a higher proof point.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Sorry to go back to price a little bit. Green, you're thinking, is around 50 now, probably 45. Red is around 75, well worth the jump.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

This is very good. I think it's worth it. It's worth it, it's always been worth the extra money.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Now, this is over this is over 90 proof to go back to Chris's argument.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

It is over 90 proof, but it's 107. But that being said, it's different though. This is a departure. It's different. When you say it's worth it, you're talking from somebody who has a palate developed. You're looking for that next thing. And when I said that in the context I was saying it in, if you are a weller person or a uh weeded person, weeded through and through, don't challenge me, don't rock the boat. I like this stuff. That might not be worth the jump. But when you're the guy that's looking for more, right? And you're in your into experimentation and you're into trying new things and all this stuff, and you're okay with rocking the boat. 107 is very good. And let's go beyond this, right? This is still very much a weeded, though.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Oh, yeah, it's very much still.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

But you're depending on but you're departing a little bit from what makes weeded weeded. Yeah, you're starting to depart. There's pinaz, there's panzance, there's panache. Yeah, there's something going on here. And if you keep tweaking it, are we leaving the realm of weeded? Yeah, yes, yes, we are.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

See, I don't know that I agree that we're leaving the realm of weeded. If you keep tweaking it, if we keep going, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

No, not this, but if you no, that's what I'm saying. If we keep tweaking it, you're rocking the boat, you're gonna spill out into the waterway, which is great. I'm so excited for this. This is a new adventure. But if you're that guy that's comfortable where you're at, don't rock the boat. All of a sudden you're not weeded anymore, which is why I think when you overproof weeded, you're getting away from what weeded is. That's what I'm that's all I'm saying. I like it. I just think you're getting away from what weeded is.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, this is where I I I jump in again with both feet into saying SASRAC is the uh introductory brand. Because to Steve's point, this is a bit higher proof than the reserve, but it still carries that weeded flavor. And I think that's why people like it so much, is because it still carries, even those that are heavy, heavy weeded bourbon, there's something about it. I don't know what how they age it, what that looks like mash pill, but it still carries through that that weeded bourbon with just a just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It's it's it's it's the same genes. Have you ever met somebody like a family where you're like there's three brothers and you like them all, but like there's people you like more than the other. But when you think about them all, they're all different opinions, like uh like personalities, they're all different. There's people you want to hang out with more, but they're all the same kind of person. You could tell they all came from the same genes, they're all family. That is what it is. I think if if uh if Sazerac came with out with some crazy off-the-wall like nonsense thing, it would be different, but it would have the same similar gene makeup. You'd be like, that's still from the same family. You would see the family resemblance. You get what I'm saying? They're very secretive. But that to be said, you're still not. I think weeded can get to a point where it's not weeded anymore. Yeah, that doesn't mean it's not Weller, that doesn't mean it's not Sazerac, but you're leaving you, you're going, you're departing so far from what you are supposed to be that you're something new entirely. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

I think that uh like I still get all of the elements of wheat in this in this class, it still has all that creaminess. It's just instead of two percent, it's full milk. You know, it's it's it's just it's just bolder, it's a little bit brighter. And in terms of Sazraq being so secretive, that what makes that hard and also kind of makes it interesting is that I don't know why this is different than anything else. You know, a lot of times when we're sitting in here doing this for a series or whatever, we're looking at it and we're saying, ah, this one's different because the mask bill has changed, or the age has changed, or the proof point has changed. We know the proof has changed, we don't know anything else, so you're left to your imagination. Yeah, it's up to you to figure it out, and it could just be it's just a magic wand, it's just whatever it is, is what this I just like it different. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Right, and uh yeah, and I think Sazraq has built themselves around that. Like we you know that when you get at something from Sazerac, you won't know its age, you won't know its mash bill, which can be irritating, but it also adds a level of mystery that is now do I like whatever it is Sazrag does or do I not? And then that's your only line now, and you don't know what else to do. And it's why Sazerag wouldn't come out with something weird and crazy because that's not what they do, and it would be changing too many things, and then it would just piss me off.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

For for whatever reason, weather red has always been less available than weather green. There's there, it's less produced, it there's less out there. I don't think weather green has ever had a cork top. Weather red absolutely has had a cork top.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

These are both scruffs, right? They changed these ones are scruffs, they changed them a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

For whatever reason, uh you're uh why is it 107? Why is that the number, right? I I don't know. These are things we'll never know. But why has it always been that uh you might find weather green, you're hard pressed to find weather red? I don't know, because really, like, is it that much more aged? That it that it's limited that much more? I don't think so. And you can't say was it that much more proof because it's not that much more proof. So, what is it that makes Weller red, other than I think maybe a bit of marketing and a bit of ingenuity and a bit of business, you know, ship of like let's limit this more even more, and like it's harder to get, so people will buy this up. And that's what's happened. Like, because you might pass up Weller Green, you don't pass up Weller Red. Nobody does.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

I was gonna say, if I if I did find Weller Red, I'd buy it at MSRP, and maybe a touch more. What would you I was about to say, what would you if MSRP for this is 75? I don't know that I'd go too much more than that. Uh yeah, I mean maybe 80. Yeah, I'm I'm not hitting 100. Right. You know, I'm I'm standing to that for sure. I think I'd probably now I think I'd go MSRP. If it was back in the day when it was 50, 55, 60, I think I'd go up to maybe 75. I think 75 is probably my cap on it. But I would wait in line for it.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

You would?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah. I think yeah, if I knew a store was gonna have this and stuff, I'd I'd wait in line for a little bit for this one.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

And I've had so many people tell me that because I passed up Weller, I passed up Weller Red, but I've had people tell me, like, and I've never heard them say that about the green. But if you ever see Weller Red, pick it up for me or let me know, or what you know, it's but it's also that hype. It's that hype, dude. It's that this is a hundred dollar bill, and the green is like 20. It's like a $20 bill versus a hundred dollar bill, and people just lose their effing mind over this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And I I should to qualify this a little bit, I'd wait in line once for it. Yeah, you know, I'd I'd put it on the shelf. I wouldn't stockpile it. It's not a daily drinker, it's not something I need to have a bunch of. It's very good. I'm not in the trading world to like want to do that. You would drink it though, right? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

I I don't I what I don't get is you never ever see this open. Like nobody's ever drink, nobody's ever sitting around drinking well, I guess other than me, because it's open on my shelf. But nobody's ever sitting around drinking while they're red. Why not? It's good. I think this is a great bottle. It's probably, in my opinion, like my favorite uh weeded at this point, because my palate has gone to that point that I it's pushing the envelope of what a weeded is, right? It has broken through the glass ceiling of what a weeded is.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

You know, I would agree to an extent. I've got an unopened bottle of both reserve and red. Just sitting under the shelf, just waiting for someone that really wants one, they can't find one, or wants to trade it. I don't really care, right? But I'm also not the type of person that gravitates towards an everyday drinker, no thinker. This is an everyday drinker, no thinker.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

If you can get your hands on it, well, the red's a no-thinker, yes. Oh, I disagree.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

For a weeded person, I think it's an everyday drinker, no thinker.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I think for a weeded person, it's pushing the envelope. I think for uh a non-weeded person, it's good. It might be more of a no-thinker, but for a weeded person, this is uh Calvinism. This is pushing the envelope, right? This is like uh a new It's pretty bold. Yeah, this is this is this is somebody coming in and challenging your faith, right? This is like, hey, you think you know what weeded is. Well, we can take it another step. So let me let me change that from Calvinism is is is uh is the right thing there, or or if it should be um uh at any rate, let's not get stupid.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

But let me change the whole idea of the weeded person as an everyday drinker no thinker. For someone that like me has a massive collection for craft distillery and local distillery. This is an everyday drinker no thinker compared to those.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

I think that that's true for any commercial versus craft. Like, I I think you have to separate those into different categories.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

We are in tune right now, dude. That's exactly what I'm saying. You can't compare the two.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

But that's for me, I'd rather have those than this.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yes. Well, yeah, absolutely. That's what I'm trying to say. Is I'd rather keep this closed on. You aren't pretending to be a weeded guy. No, I'm I'm not a big weeded guy. You have to put yourself in the mindset of somebody who's weeded, and I don't know how to do that. It's tough, it's tough. But I mean, I've I've I've talked to it. Yeah, imagine being Laura or Mary.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Yeah, I don't know that Mary would go.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Oh, I think she would. I I think I think this would, I think if you were to sit Mary and Laura down, we should do this and pour them weather green, they're gonna be like, this is really good. This is really good. And if we poured them weather red, they go, This is good, this is hot, this is uh, this is sharp, this is bitey, this is edgy, this is whatever they're gonna say, but this is extra. That's what it comes down to. This is extra. I prefer the green because they don't have any preconceived notions. That is not to make light of people like this, but that's a weeded person. Okay, this is what I'm getting at. Like they want creamy, they want sweet, they want friendly, unless you're starting to branch out. You can't put yourself in that mindset because you're not that person. I'm not that person. But if you put yourself as that person, we've moved on from that. This, if you are the kind of person where green is weeded, this would absolutely be a thinker, is what I'm getting at. A thousand percent.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

I would agree.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

And then you want to talk about craft distilleries, weeded or otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

That's a whole nother thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

You're like, well, this is challenging everything I know. Like, my whole world is falling apart right now. Like you're telling me there's more there's more than up and down, there's left and right and sideways and diagonal ways, and it's like the Willie Wonka thing. This place, this elevator can go uh backwards and forwards. You know what I mean? Like it's travel forward and backwards in time, like this is changing everything.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

We've had a few of the guys on the club say, I don't get the Dusty Barn thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

I don't understand what although I think more of them, more of them are starting to say, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

But we have a few that say, I don't understand the gravitational pull towards that. I don't understand the like of that. Those people love this. This is that graph, they gravitate towards this one because they're it is the it is the craft distillery equivalent within the big brands.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yeah, it's limited. No, but I think you have to take into account brands, you have to take into account the non popular idea that these people won't want to admit to themselves that there's the hype the hype part of it, too. The people that say this stuff is great is because it's well or read. And I'm telling you, if you put this in a bottle. Uh, any other bottle, and you gave it to them, they would say different things. But they wouldn't be hammering home, this is the stuff, this is the stuff, this is the stuff, because they don't know this is well or red. But they've been told and conditioned that well or red is the well or red is the will or red. I'm telling you, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

It's just killer marketing.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

It's killer marketing. It's it's gotten to that point. This is the niche stuff for the big for the big time distillery.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, but I will say that as we've kind of talked about a little bit, well or red is kind of that challenge.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

It is challenging.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

It's it's a little bit more bold. There's some edges going on. You there are things to think about with this.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

It's definitely not a note. Whereas the for me, but for you, it might be a no thinker. Right. But for for a weeded person, this is a thinker.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, there's some stuff going on here. A little breaking the mold, it's not you're challenging my ideas. There's things going on like, yes, it's creamy. That weeded creaminess is there, but there's a little bit of like ginger or something going on there. A little bit of spice. Yeah, there's there's some things happening that you're sweet, but it's not that sweet. Yeah, if you're new to whiskey, this is a great step up from green as your next as your next intuition. Absolutely. Now, I don't necessarily agree that this is your next this is your step from here to other to outside of wheat. No, you could stop here. I I don't think this is like on the way to that. But if you are looking for a bold thinking wheat that is commercial, right, I think this is this is really good for that.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

This is horizon expanding, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

I don't know if you guys remember. We also did Larceny. We've also had the Larceny barrel proof, which is uh it's a wheat at bourbon. Yep. How would you compare it to this? Because this is the I mean, kind of the next big name higher up proof-wise.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Because who makes larceny? It's uh it's uh heaven hell, yeah. It's uh that was I would still call that a a big brand. Okay, so I think it would be I think you're right in in pairing those together. I think Larceny is more so that path out of weed.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Dude, it is that, yeah. It is a departure.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

So this is kind of this is the step in between the two.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Okay, for a weed person, that would never be an everyday drinker. Yeah, like that is you are like I am, you know, I I stay in my lane, but every now and then I want to go to Disney World. Yeah, that's Disney World. That that is that is sexy, that is sexy lingerie, right? Not another this doesn't happen all that often.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

So yeah, but when it does larceny is we're all happy about it, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

But it's uh it's not all the time, dude. That is a big bold thing. It's not even for me, and I'm not even a weeded guy, but like even if I was, that would not be something I'd be like, this is my everyday. If somebody said that larceny barrelproof is my everyday, I'd be like, you have some freaking issues, like that's awesome, but like also like you're crazy. You're crazy, yeah. You are nuts. Yeah, like I don't know anybody that's like that's my everyday. I'd be like, Melija Craig barrelproof, that's my everyday. It's like, okay, dude. There's some high-proof stuff that I would say it's my everyday, but those things are just so dang bold. And for the realm of weeded, that's gotta be like the absolute max of of what you're you're pushing everything that you would know about weeded at that point. You are the absolute, like it's gimmicky almost for that, for that class.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

To be called, I mean, be considered a weeded class.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, because it's it's so far in a way what a weeded should be. Like, why do you even like weeded anymore? That you're to that point. If you like this more than you like well or green, why do you even like weeded anymore? Move on.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

So you guys haven't had it, but old fits, uh, the decanters are weeded. That gets up there in age, but it stays at 100 proof, and that's great, and there's a lot of flavor. It's still hot.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Old Fitz was with these guys originally. Uh old Fitzgerald. Oh, yes, old Fitzgerald was with them. Yep, yeah, and then they're switched.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

And then Larceny, that's where the name Larseny comes from. That's put enough. You're stealing the choiciest stuff out of the state of welder.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

So you've got the big name brands doing stuff like this. This is the again, this is entry. This is entry level. You go above it, and then, like you said, 107's not my stepping stone, and then outside of weeded. Yeah, Larseny might be the stepping stone into something outside of weeded. Could be you know what I mean? Like that might be the next thing to go.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

What else is out there? Whatever category you're talking about, there is the beginning, uh, intermediate and advanced. But then there's also the things that are like basic, and basic not in a bad way, as in like baseline, okay. And then there are pushing the envelope, uh, pushing horizons, changing, it's challenging thought, thought-provoking. Uh, in every category, there's something like that. That would be uh, you got Balarseny barrel proof. This is close to that. Like this is um still contains all the great things about weeded, but if you were like a weeded through and through guy, and this was like your only like end-all be-all, I'd be like, I don't think you're gonna be weeded that long. I really don't think you're gonna be into weeded that long. I think to be like weeded, weeded like weeded is my absolute favorite, then you would stick around the weather green, the stuff like that, because it's friendly. It stays friendly, it stays good, it stays sweet, it stays creamy, all the things that you like without being every now and then you want something different, something edgy. But your baseline should be your everyday should be something like weather green if you're into weeded stuff. Otherwise, you're just not that into, which is fine. I think, I think almost everybody is gonna eventually move out of weeded. I mean, you'd always go back to it. But to be like weeded's my absolute favorite. Like anybody that's like buffalo trace stuff is like only thing I ever want. I never want to expand my horizons. Okay, I'll believe that when I see it. Or like, how much do you actually drink? And how much of that is like you just want to be a brand guy. You know what I mean? But I think uh this is coming from somebody who was into weeded stuff. I was always exclusively into weeded, so I think that's what I'm talking about myself. There was things that I tried, like weather green, and I was like, well, I why would I want anything more than this ever? Like this is perfect for me. Like I never thought I'd sit down and enjoy a neat bourbon, right? Now look at me. It's like the the more the the more flavor I can get, the better. I don't even care. At this point, like I don't know if there's anything I wouldn't try. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Like, I also think there's when you talk about the beginning stages of of someone drinking, right? I look at our experience. I don't ever remember having Weller 107 in in our mix of of bottles that we got. I I never remember, or even Weller wasn't in the mix of things.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Well, we used to say, I don't know if you remember this, but we used to tell people that, and I and I still do, that given the option between the two, I would pick Weller Green every time. And it's for more than just the flavor, it's for the availability and the price. Right. Um, and for what it is. And that's what I always say. I always say for what it is. Because if you like weeded, that's weather green. You know what I mean? Uh, if you want something a little bit more exciting, then you want the weather red. But I can give you way more stuff in that realm of things. You start challenging the idea of what a weeded is. But for the price and availability, why would you, if you like weeded stuff, why would I always say weather green? What I would always choose weather green because I could I would do two bottles of weather green over one bottle of weather red. And that being said, I love this. This is better in my opinion. We've talked to Blake. Have we talked to Blake about this?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I'd like to know his opinion.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Which one is better? I don't know if I've talked to Blake. Green or red. We'd have to sit him down also and have him try him side by side. I'd also like to do a blind with some of this stuff. I mean, between the two, you'd be able to tell, but I'd like to do a blind with some of the some of the people that are into the weeded stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Well, we talked about the weeded being the entry into bourbon, right? That's not the only path. Guess what I'm trying to say. So people that are listening or people trying to get others into bourbon, you don't have to start with the weeded because Steve didn't start with weeded. You and I didn't start with the weeded. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

It really is more of a corn, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Like, let's like so we got started in just trying and dabbling.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

It's more of a corn bourbon, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

This was after we started dabbling. This kind of came after we started dabbling, and I think because of that, the Weller? The you and I never had Weller dabbling into stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Uh no, but I I had a lot of Buffalo Trace.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Right, but it's not a weeded, it's not it's not a weeded bourbon.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I was into Buffalo Trace, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:24

But I guess what I'm trying to say is weeded is good, it's a good entry.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

And Buffalo Trace is friendly in that in that aspect, they're similar.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

But I also think there's something to be said that our journeys didn't necessarily start with weeded, but we have an appreciation because of that. We have an appreciation for weeded.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

We had we actually had a time, uh uh weeded period as well, possibly, but not of like the big name brands, like the well. But we never, I mean, yeah, it's hard to compare us. We we went into this without caring about brands. We really did. Like, you know, we never we never went after the hype. We and we've stuck stuck to that. If anything, we got the hype stuff like later on.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

We hyped up everything else. Yeah, we did. We've always we weren't the hype.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

We've always been for the lower the the underdog, but it's just when you I mean, there's so much stuff out there that's when you try this. It's it's kind of like we were talking about the other day when we were at the distillery. It's like it's tough when like I could buy one bottle for this. That's good, it's really good, it's probably amazing. Or I can buy like four really amazing bottles for the same price, you know. I mean, what are you gonna do? We've always been like that.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I'll buy all five, different levels. Yeah, I mean, for me, weather green is perfect for the brand new drinker. Weller red is most definitely a step up, but still in the same category. This is still a weeder and it still has those essence of wheat, but it's bolder. You have more flavor, it's it's just enhanced. It's it's all it is weather green enhanced. It's a little bit better, a little bit bolder. The proof point coming up kind of brings brightens the flavors a little bit, and it's often some of the overwhelming wheat wheat stuff that you get, I think.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

I think some of the and that's what I keep saying. I think as you get towards weather red and and you keep moving forward, you're departing what makes weeded weeded. But that being said, I think it's this is the normal progression. If you go from green to red, you're like, this red's amazing, you are going to make the next step. You just are.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

So, how would you compare these to all again? We when we've talked about comparing to the other weeded bourbons we have had in all of this, it's been a thing of they're good, they're very different. Yeah, how would you compare these, the wellers, uh, to all the other stuff that we've had?

SPEAKER_01 32:53

I think that when you're talking about quintessential wheat flavor, this is what I imagine. Okay. So this is that wheat flavor. Now, what is that that that creaminess that uh it's it's uh sweet, creamy, gentle. That that's that's the what I have always said in my head was what wheat was. During this series, we've had some of them that are finished, we've had some craft, we've had some commercial, we've had a whole bunch of them that have challenged that idea that I no longer believe that that is what wheat is. Because like we've had like the William Dalton is a complex drink. Like there's lots going on in that. I would have if you would have just poured me a glass of that, I wouldn't have said it was a high wheat bourbon or or whiskey, whichever one it is. So, you know, uh this series has challenged the idea of wheat.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yeah, like winter wheat, yeah. No, I mean there's all sorts of stuff that that can uh right that can change that and alter that.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

And so I think what what I've learned through all this is that wheat is not the basic drink anymore. And I and I think that's just the industry growing. But when you look at commercial stuff for wheat, this is what it is, and this is what wheat was supposed to be. We have now enhanced that and grown that and changed it and finished it and proofed it and done all kinds of stuff. But if you're just looking at if you have in your head what wheat is, this is what that is.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Yeah, no, I mean I agree with Steve. I think uh I think it's just something to take into perspective. I think when you get too into what's funny is we talk about all this stuff, but if I think if you get too into one thing or the other and you close yourself off to other possibilities, that's where you start having issues because uh people look at Weller and they compare it to Pappy and everything else, and they think that they know what they're talking about. It's actually uh Pappy is more similar to weather green than it is weather red. And you've I've had Pappy, you've had Pappy. Um old rip. I mean, uh again, so uh it's people think that they know, like, well, you know, I'm a weeded guy. And so, well, you may or may not be. I don't don't close yourself off to other possibilities. You gotta try things, you have to know what you like, what you don't like.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

I uh real quick, I did just text Blake. He said between green and red, he he's regular red.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

He's red, which is crazy. I bet if you need to ask.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I bet when I I bet what is better now.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I mean, some of that could be because we we know red is red is so hyped, dude. It could be, but I bet uh the Blake that first started different, different he would have used green. I mean, he totally would have been great. Yeah, and that's that's where the blind stuff comes in. You know what I mean? But he's moved way more, his palate has gotten way more uh well, I want to say it's gotten more uh advanced. He well, not just that, he likes pushing the envelope more than he used to. He's out of his comfort zone, yeah, for sure. And I think well, if if picking uh picking the club bottle tells you anything, do you hear him? I mean, he was all about the he was all about the undulations, you know what I mean? And he was all about the peaks and the rising, the falls, and the the edgy flavors and everything else. And I'm like, well, this is not uh same Blake that was into like just easygoing uh you know stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yeah, so his he what he said here, I I said quick weller red or well or green for you personally, which is better. He said, well or red, there's a big change in quality, it's definitely worth the price difference, at least MSRP. So that was his that's that is Blake's input as our as our token weeder. Token weeder.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

The tastings that we've done, we've done these tastings before, like Weller Green, Weller Red, and Buffalo Trace. I think Eagle Rare might have been thrown in there. But anyhow, between the Weller's, everyone has wanted Weller Red over Weller Reserve. Afterwards, they're like, Can I have another glass of Weller Red? I want Weller Red. Again, I don't know if that's the hype or if that's the flavor complex, if it changes, you know what I mean? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Between these two, I I I feel like between these two in particular, there is a very large difference, and you can say hype notwithstanding, that you can you can pick red is better than green in terms of just flavor.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I think you can because the flavor is definitely turned up, the dial is turned up. It's just it's tough because it has gotten to be this thing, this unicorn thing, that if I were to give somebody weather red in a bottle that look like nothing, would they like it as much as if I gave and I gave them a bottle of weather red? Like, would they still pick the weather red?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Over what?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Over the same weather red in a different bottle. Oh, I see, I got you.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

I think they would just weather.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

You just yeah, you just cannot like get away from the little bit of hype that comes. 100% believe you there. It's in our brains, you know what I mean? I just uh there's just no way I think people would be like, if I said this is like the closest thing to Weller Red I've found, and it's in like a junk bottle, and here's Weller Red, people would try to be like, Well, you know, this one's still just there's something about it, and then they would they would give you a dissertation about why Weller Red is better. It's like, well, guess what? It's the same stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, I I completely agree with you there.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I did, but between green and red, oh you can't you almost can't. I I keep getting back, you almost can't compare the two. And I think if you were to compare the two, you're being naive. Like they're different. Like Weller Green is everything a weeded should be. Weller red is pushing the envelope. It's it's it's it's it's it's yeah, really on the edge of something.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Have you guys had any of the other Weller lineup? Fulproof. But I I've had full and 12.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

I've had full, I've had 12, and I've had the SP, whatever C R C Oh, C Y P B. CY, yeah. Yeah, I've had yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

I don't know why you've had the CYPB.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

It's good, it's really good.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

And there's also single barrel.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

And so I don't think I've had single. There's obviously a big difference between these two, but leave green out of it, red, 12-year-fool proof, all those. Is there as big of a change? Yeah, 12 barriers.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Okay, you can't say 12 isn't.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

So I think we prefer 12 and Weller Fool over Pappy's. Oh well, okay. So I had Pappy's uh 23. I gotta try that versus Weller Fool and Weller 12, and I prefer Weller 12 and Weller Fool over Pappy's 23. Okay, just because there wasn't much there was something lacking, there wasn't much of an oomph between the papies and the Weller line. So for me, of being like, okay, I can't get Pappy's 23, but I could possibly get these two, and I'd rather take these two over that one.

unknown 39:52

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Just because I can't get that one. I don't know if I can ever get that one, but I have a better chance of getting these two.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I think I think what's funny, I I talked in the last last episode uh about Weller foolproof. I think it's not good uh for a weeded bourbon, and that's because it's it's really good, it's just not weeded, uh, in my opinion. It's it's it's departed. It's not weeded, you're right. Um, what's interesting is if you were to ask me the best weather out there, and a lot of people would agree with this, it's weather 12. If you tried Weller 12, well, Weller 12. Do you know what Weller 12 is? It's green.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

12 years. It's 90 proof, it's the same proof point as well green. It is not antique 107, aged 12 years. Okay. And I think if you took antique 107, age 12 years, it'd be good, but it would not be Weller 12 good.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Uh and I think that's because the roof point. I think Weller 12 is 100% a weeded bourbon, aged 12 years with incredible quality. That's why, in my opinion, it's probably the best thing they've put out. I've always said that. I think that that there's it doesn't get any better than Weller 12. And I think Weller 12 for the price, the availability, all this other stuff, like you were saying, I think I think that's better than Pappy.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

So I'm curious about the the just like a dial up of of quality and flavor and everything. Green, well, with that like five mile an hour, red is like 60. I mean, it's a very large difference. What is that if that's 60 in like boldness and flavor and everything else? Are those other ones like 70 or are they like 100? Like, are like are they all are they in in a similar vein?

SPEAKER_02 41:34

So Weller 12 is well or green bold.

unknown 41:37

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

It's just bold. It's it's it's it's it's it's more nuanced, it's more refined, it's more uh enriched, it's more it's I wouldn't say it's faster in speed. Right, right. I wouldn't say it's more slap you in the face. It's more of like if you're relaxed, you're more relaxed. Okay. Like if something is good, this is really good.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

But the quality change, the flavor change is is drastic or small? Drastic. I think it's drastic.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I think trying weather green to weather to what weather 12, you're like, this is the same thing. It's just one is like a child and one is like a grown man. It's just it's just hard to and not saying the flavors any like because you're not getting vast differences. It's the same stuff. It's just more deep, it's more deepened, it's more rich, it's more refined. Like if you were to take an actor or a singer or a painter and you saw their early work, this guy's going places, but then you see him at the end of their career, they figured it out. It's not different, it's better.

unknown 42:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Does that make sense? It's so hard to describe. It's not different, it's better.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Have you have you had Lay's normal Lay's chips? Lay's barbecue, right? Have you had Lay's baked barbecue? Yeah, completely different in flavor. The barbecue is not as potent in the baked as it is the normal. That's baked is reserve. The normal is 12. It's the same thing, it's the same chip, it's the same flavor, but it's a bit more oomph to it.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

If I were to give you nightcap, we opened a 10 and night cap and you tried it, you're like, this is really good. This is nightcap. If I were to give you a 10 and night cap that's been sitting for 15 years, you know, or 12 years, I guess, at this point, uh, and you were to try it, there would be a massive difference. Like, like a like smack you in the face difference. But would I say this is is this different? No, it's not different, it's better. Right. Right? It's hard to describe, it's just enriched. Yes, but it's the same thing. Okay. It's what makes that's why Weller 12 is is weeded. It's what makes weeded weeded. It's everything that's great about what a weeded bourbon is.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

But to the best level that there can be. It's competing at the best level there is.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Weller 107 and Weller Fool, Chris put it in the best way, and I think this is why I like. Weller Fool and some don't because it takes it from Weller 107, we're a step up from reserve. We're still got weeded, but we got a higher proof point, more flavor, a little bit more complexity for the people that love Weller, right? Weller Fool is it's it goes beyond weeded to something else. It's like the journeyman pick where it was this is your recipe of I get your recipe is rye and wheat, but that higher proof point takes away that weeded and just points all to the to the rye.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

The 114, the full proof is 114. So it's not that extreme, but it's just enough to put it over to where it's less weeded and more just bourbon. It's just higher proof bourbon at that point. And I like that, uh, but I'm not a big weed. Like it's I like both. I can appreciate both, but I do like I like the fool for what it is.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

And I and I I like the fool, I like the weather red. Uh, but that's because I, you know, I'm just I have uh I but we like high rise, we like we like ries, we like barrel-proof rice, we like uh I like a lot of bold flavor. Um I I I could get bored with the weather green. But there's but if you like weather green and you're okay with that, like being, you know, that level of I don't want to say being bored, but you know what I mean? Like if you like that and that's your jam, I think Weller 12 is what you should look for. You're like, wow, you want to really get knock your socks off. Um you want to try the best, the best uh weeded experience. Uh Weller 12 might be might be that. I don't know, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Yeah. So uh Julian Van Winkle, uh, there was a conversation about Weller versus Pappies. There was this idea of pap or uh Weller 12 is his go-to, pappies not so much. Because Weller 12 was it it reminded him of the original papies, like that was that was the thing, you know what I mean? Yep, that was his thing. Well, it was Weller 12 had more of the flavor that was consistent with the original papies than what the papies has with the original papies, which is super uh super interesting to me. I don't know how much of that is is just uh perspective or reality. I I don't know how much of that is nostalgia versus you know reality. I don't know, but there's something I think there's something to be said, like Chris said, if you're looking for just more complexity, more oomph to it, more bold from the Weller reserve, the Weller 12, if you can find it, is worth that because it's it's it's it's the bold, it's the extra.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

And I I think anybody that's thinking the um the colors and the names don't play a part, is feeling themselves. You uh you do a blind, yeah, do a blind and you tell me. Yeah, because we've done it and I've been shocked. I've been shocked with what came out, um, and what I thought was what and what I thought was better than the others. Yeah, um, and I'm not saying that that's not to say that sometimes you you're like, okay, I was right, you know what I mean? And it was Pappy Van Winkle was the best thing I tried. Uh, you don't know. Um, but I think everybody knows, unless you're fooling yourselves, that what's on the bottle plays a part. Um, and I think that in this case, when you're talking about weeded bourbons specifically, the fact that people like Weller Red over Weller Green, I think that comes down a little, a good chunk of it comes down to why, for whatever reason, it's less available. It's harder to get.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Now, I mean, I think that the I think the flavors are more bold. So I like it.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

And I can say, like, when it comes to the hype and and all of that, like I think in the whiskey world that we're in now, and if you're listening to this, if you're listening to us sit and talk about a bottle for an hour, you care about the history and the story, the you know, what the the marketing of the bottle, like that is part of the experience for you. So like hype has a place in the whiskey world. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like that is that is that is why we are all right.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Yeah, you here's the reason why limited single barrel, small batch, these things.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Oh, all the time. Check boxes, yes, and so and and it's the reason every time somebody comes into a liquor store when I'm there doing tastings and they say, I'm buying something for somebody that drinks whiskey. I ask them some questions. I'm like, Do you do you have any idea what brands are on his shelf? Like what does he normally drink? What is he like? If they can't tell me any of that, then I just I I I pick something that is limited or or a little bit more rare, you know, and that's gonna be here. They're gonna like this. Or right there, it says limited. That alone is is enough for most people that are in whiskey to at least appreciate the bottle. Maybe not like it, maybe not be a go-to or whatever else, but they'll appreciate the gift because it's limited.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Goes all the way back to the bottle and bond uh tape, right? Yep. All of a sudden these things have tape on them and they're set apart from everything else on the shelf. And ever since then, uh marketing has been a thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

All right. Well, there we are. There are our wellers. These are the only two we can get our hands on.

unknown 49:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

At least for the moment. So if you have a 12 or a foolproof and one is to be or single barrel or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

You think we're we're totally BS. Uh, and we're we're gonna send it first up.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

And uh send it to us blind. We'll try it and see what we'll see if we can figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

We'll see. I'll take that.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Awesome, gents. Well, until next time. Till next time. Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskey tasterspumma.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.