Walleye Run Malted Rye!

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_06 0:29

We're back. We seem to have a theme for pot distilled. Anyhow, we're back on a series of the three U's. Underappreciated, unknown, and underrated distilleries. So the three U University. We have got While I Run is the name of the bottle, bottle line, I should say, coming out of. Don't know if I want to say it just yet. We've had a so full disclosure, we've had a bottle.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

You said Michigan.

SPEAKER_06 0:57

We've had from Michigan. We've had a bottle from them on the podcast. It was a finished bottle that we had. Cody, I think, was on. I don't know if you're on Blake or not on that one. I'm gonna say no. I've gone through two of those specific bottles. Uh in fact, Ryan just sent me a text asking if it was available in Ohio because he wants a bottle. I was like, no, but Tipsy has it. And he goes, Okay, get me some when you go next.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

I can tell you a distillery in Michigan that I love, and this tastes really good. But the bottles are very different. This can't be two James.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

No, this has hints of where it came from.

SPEAKER_06 1:33

Yeah, this is not two James. If you know Michigan, this does have hints on where it came from.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

And we tried one from Michigan that I hated.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

Detroit City. Detroit City. That was a terrible one. But also, if you talk about so you got two James, we've had two James, Detroit City, Journeyman, obviously. And then we've had Traver City.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Traverse City's good.

SPEAKER_06 1:53

But the other one is going to be out of Holland, Michigan. So I'm guessing that's where this is from. Based off the fact that I said it last year.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

The way that you said it, yeah. Holland, Michigan.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

If you taste it and you know anything about Holland, Michigan, that it's got hints of where it comes from.

SPEAKER_06 2:08

So this is out of New Holland Brewing Company and Distillery.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Dragon's milk. Yeah, dragon's milk. Okay. I was gonna say it's got some honey. If you taste it, you go. I was gonna say there's a little bit of like honey. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

So this is the interesting part. They started in 2005. I don't know if the distillery or the brewery is the one that started in 2005, but uh New Holland, the company itself, got their start in 2000.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

I think it was the brewery, if I remember in 2005. Yes, which they've got a dragon's milk beer that is amazing. It's a stout, right? Yes, dragon's milk stout. They've got a white stout and a darker stout, chocolate stout, I believe.

SPEAKER_05 2:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

There's two different, there's two different dragon milks. One is uh one is a white label, one is a black label, and they're both very, very good in the beer side.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

And they have done, I want to say their their first lineup that they did for whiskey, which they're still doing, but they're distilling themselves now, was beer barrel, I believe was the name of it. I had a dragon on the front of it, so you assume that's that's coming out of the dragon's milk kind of thing, which may have been the beer barrel itself idea. But the one that they got their recognition for and they started really taking off was the dragon's milk stout. That bourbon, the dragon's milk origins uh bottle was where they took off. And they have done iteration after iteration after iteration for that bottle that's distillery only, and I hate that because I want some of it, but they've every time they come out with one, Nick and I are texting, going, Who's going up there?

SPEAKER_04 3:41

I I got something going on. Oh, dang it, me too. And we're like, oh no.

SPEAKER_06 3:45

Well, someone's got to get up there. But Dragon's Milk, the origin bottle, has become so popular since we did it on the podcast, so like since that time frame, that tipsy might get in a case or two and can he can hold on to it for maybe a week, and it's gone.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

Pretty early on in the podcast, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_06 4:03

Yeah, so it's it's taken off. That was a big I mean, it's really taken off. I can't believe how creamy this is.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

This is because when I tried the dragon's milk, I thought this is so creamy, but it was like the components of that specifically. Now I'm starting to think it might be the distillery because this is creamy, it's it's fantastic. It's pipe tobacco, it's very creamy, and like because with like bulk and pipe tobacco, you you get that really thick with like wisps of smoke, right? And it's creamy, a lot of vanilla, a lot of those types of of when you say custard, I think that pudding flawn, though these types of things that are.

SPEAKER_06 4:40

It's like a vanilla pudding kind of thing, okay. Real thick, like out of the cup kind of pudding cup.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

That is what I get from this, which is also what I got from the dragon's milk. I remember saying that over and over again. So it might be just holland, whatever they're doing, whatever the ingredients they're using, or something. It must be a wheat that they're using or something. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_06 4:59

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

And this one It's gotta be something because this is really, really good.

SPEAKER_06 5:04

You know, we we've always talked about the story of the bottle, right? We we appreciate a good back history of the bottle or of the distillery. But I think what I appreciate about Michigan Dist maybe it's just Michigan distilleries or like uh northern distilleries, is history matters, but it almost seems like with with these uh distilleries that are around lakes, there's a different culture that's created around lakes, right? It's almost this summer family vacation to go fishing on the lake, and we go up to the cabin, we'll go up to the upper peninsula, it's huge for like people, northern Indiana, Michigan. That's where you travel, that's where you spend winters or summers. Like you get up to UP as much as often, right? It's this idea of creating a family moment that becomes part of your history, right? Part of your memory. Well, the idea behind the bottle, though, the naming of walleye run is this idea of during the summer, walleye is huge up there. So fishing, it's the idea of they go up and they they just take the day, go out into the waters, and they just fish for walleye. They just, even if it's not walleye you're catching, it's the idea of we're just going out there and we want to create a moment. And there's as guys, I feel like we can say this if you ever go fishing with your dads or with other guys, your uncles, there's no talking. We're just throwing the line out in the water, and we're all standing on the boat or beside each other, and we're grunting and nodding at each other, like it's a good day. Mine is usually, oh, I had a good one. I had a great one. There's not like in-depth conversations, but it's you walk away from those moments, and you're like, Man, that was such a good time.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah, just being together.

SPEAKER_06 6:49

Yeah, your wives are like, What'd you guys talk about? Nothing. She's like, No, you guys talked about something.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Not really. Like, we really didn't talk. Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, I don't know. Didn't you ask?

SPEAKER_06 7:04

No, we fished. That's what we did, right? And you look at New Holland Brewing Company and their their whiskies they've put out so far. It's been about tying back to what they started, tying back to a memory of the area, right? Not necessarily history of the area, but a memory of something that has turned into their history, right? It's turned into a significant moment for them. That's this bottle. Like the while I run, they do three different versions of this bottle. Well, actually, four, I should say. So they have a single malt, malted rye, malted rye normal that we got, and then they have a double oaked malted rye, and then they do a malted wheat. Malted wheat. Malted wheat. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

And this is the malted malted rye, not the double oaked malted rye, just the malted rye.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

I gotta think the malted wheat would be even creamier than this.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

And their single malt is not an American single malt. Now, what the hell is a sweet mash?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Well, it's got trouble here. Say sweet because oh my gosh. For some reason, I'm getting like massive candy rides versus a sour mash.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

We've talked about this several times, by the way, Chris. Sour mash, they use some of the spent grain, where sweet mash is just all new. It's new every time.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

It is can't it's kind of can kind of candy.

SPEAKER_06 8:19

Sweet mashes are really hard to, they're a lot harder to do, and uh, when I say harder to do, they're a lot harder to repeat every time.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Also cost more money, too, which I'm surprised if why. I mean, if you've done it once, why not just keep doing sour mashes?

SPEAKER_06 8:35

And there's very few distilleries that do the sweet mash, but the reason they do it is because, and I would agree, uh, their claim is it provides a unique flavor every time. It's not this um same every time. There's there's there's a flavor, like one flavor you hold on to, like, oh, this is the same as last time, but there's also unique difference between each bottle.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

So, what is what is the component that New Holland has that makes because I've had a couple of different dragons milks. I've had this, and all of them have that creamy.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

You know what I think it is? I think they're brewery at heart, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:18

So I think they're using all of their all of their beer is a creamy, at least everything that I've had.

SPEAKER_06 9:25

I think they're using some of the malt or the barley that they would use for the beer and using it for their distillation process.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

It's like a crossover.

SPEAKER_06 9:34

I think because it it reminds me of their beer. I'm not mad about it at all.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Well, because stouts are fru fairly creamy as well, right?

SPEAKER_06 9:42

And all of their beer, if you have any of New Holland's beer, even their light stuff has this tropical, fruity, creamy, light flavor to it that this reminds me of. See, I don't get tropical. Fruity. Maybe that's a better way of putting it. It's it's a sweety fruity.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

I think of like the um the Skittles, the tropical Skittles.

SPEAKER_06 10:00

Yeah, they're not tropical, they're not like tropical, but they're they're lighter, they're sweeter.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Type of flavor with those Skittles, that that candy kind of vibe, along with this creamy, it's a really weird combination, but it works super good together.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

I was always thinking of like a life savor, like gummy.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

Yes, I can get that creaminess out of that for the tropical Skittles, they do are they are different.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

You have never had them. I don't know if you've ever had them, but they are different. I've never had them, and I'm not a Skittle person. They're not tropical flavors, I'm not a huge Skittle guy either, but like the tropical Skittles are so much better than regular ones. Okay, yeah, it's just a different kind of you know I'm talking about Nick. There's just it's a different flavor. Since you said that, I'm like, this is that. That this is that, yeah. This that's what you were equating it to, yeah. But it's it's a weird mix of this sweet candy with this creamy kind of chocolatey, chocolatey kind of uh Rolo kind of a thing with the caramel. Yeah, it's different.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

Do you remember my description of the the leftover ice cream in a bowl that sat like the creaminess of that? Well, it was like you eat all your ice cream in a bowl, right? And you just have the the other portion of it that's just sitting on the bowl. You know, you go take it upstairs an hour later after the movie, right? And you take that spoon and you scrape that out and just kind of like that. It's not cold, it's creamy, it's the your wonderful word, mouthfeel. Like I think that's where I like when he was talking about like the beer creaminess, it it shines through and always go back to with beer or something like this, is like that heavy cream, and I love that. That's it. For me, I love it for sure.

SPEAKER_06 11:48

Anything that I've had out of out of New Holland, uh I I won't lie, when they first started, they were not distilling their own, so I wanted nothing to do with them. I figured your brewery, that heart, you're not looking to distill. But it was around that time period where breweries were like, hey, there's something to be had within the the whiskey world, the whiskey game. So let's start putting out stuff that's not ours, but because we're brewery, people are gonna be like, I want to try that, right? I think of uh three Floyds did that, and they've started doing their own stuff, which is unique and interesting, like this.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

Three Floyds puts out a whiskey.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

Uh they do three different ones. Yep. Interesting. And they use their malt from their beer for it. Yes. But I when I first saw that they were doing this, I was like, ah, that's all right, that's fine. I don't I don't really want it. I don't really want anything to do with it. And then I saw the dragon milk origin, and I was like, okay, this has got to be super unique because I know for that beer, you take the used barrels from your whiskey and let it sit in there and then do that. So you you're taking a twice-used barrel at this point and finishing it again for your whiskey. Like, this is gonna be unique.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

I didn't realize they took whiskey barrels.

SPEAKER_06 12:56

Yeah, and then you look at this and I go, This is gonna be good. I've got lots of questions because it wasn't we haven't been doing the podcast for seven years, and this is a seven-year-old malted rye. It is uh distilled and bottled by them. But they haven't been around that long, I didn't think right. They've been around since 2005. So, what have they been doing that they've just been sneaking away like this and just hiding?

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Shoving it away and waiting. How old is this?

SPEAKER_06 13:23

Seven years old. They've been open for 20 years.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

The brewery, yes. So the brewery's but they didn't start distilling until so that's the interesting part.

SPEAKER_06 13:31

I remember going to visit them when I was still, I was still in I mean college.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

I don't think they were been distilling for that long.

SPEAKER_06 13:38

They have, but they were distilling just clear spirits. So they were doing gin, they have their own gin and they have their own vodka. The Nickenbacher, I think, is their gin. So they've got to still set up and everything for that. So I think they were not saying anything.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Did they do it and put it away and say, hey, let's see how this works?

SPEAKER_06 13:58

Which to me, I look at and I go, okay, as I as a unknown distillery, an underrated distillery, you've just been hiding this for seven plus years now, and yeah, you haven't hung your head on it.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

You haven't been like, but even their beer, yeah, like it's not New Holland is for me anyway, it's not something that jumped out. It's not like Founders. Founders is a big name, big thing. Everybody knows about it. Most people know about New Holland, but it still has that small brewery feel. And I can't help but wonder if they did this thinking, hey, we want to break out, but is it gonna work? Put it away and realize, oh my gosh, this is really, really good. And so they started, you know, they continued to distill, but didn't really say anything.

SPEAKER_06 14:51

I remember Tipsy posting about this on Facebook, and he sent me a picture about it and said, Hey, you gotta try this. And I go, I don't what the what the heck is this? I've never heard of this. I'm thinking, like, is this a Tanner Creek situation?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Like, oh boy, makes you be afraid that they're sourcing it.

SPEAKER_06 15:06

Yeah, he's never talked to me about it. I don't know who makes it at the time. I didn't know New Holland did. I was like, You've never talked to me about it. I don't know who makes it, I've never seen it. It's nowhere, it's on no one's radar. And all of a sudden I get a text from Herm saying, Hey, if you're going up there, I want a bottle. I need a bottle of this. It was the last one there. I got it. I was like, Hey, it's yours, you're good to go. I may have tried it with him, I don't remember because I don't remember this flavor. But the next time I was up there, I was like, Okay, you've got like two cases of this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy one. I want a bottle. And then by this time I knew it was New Holland, so I was like, okay, this is interesting. But to come out as a as a brewery, you didn't make a whole you didn't make a fuss or big noise about your origins milk, your dragon origins milk, right? Which people go nuts for, yeah. But it they fuss for itself. So but no one talked about it and they just released it. And people were like, I want that because of the bottle shape. That bottle is really, really cool. The bottle is cool. And then people were like, Wow, this is legit stuff in here. It's not just a gimmick, it's not just a gimmicky bottle.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

You don't happen to have any of the dragon's milk, do you, Chris? No.

SPEAKER_06 16:08

Then they released this, which the bottle's cool, but the bottle's not the dragon's milk bottle. It is a cool bottle, but it's not like gimmicky.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

So it's very different from New Holland, right?

SPEAKER_06 16:17

It's very different from New Holland to the point where they didn't make a fuss, they didn't say anything about it, they just released it, and all of a sudden I'm like, Well, what is it?

SPEAKER_04 16:25

Where has this been?

SPEAKER_06 16:26

I've never heard of this. What is it? What what do we do? Like, what's going on? And then to find out that it's New Holland, I'm like, when did you start doing other stuff? Right, it's kind of like when did this come? And then I saw seven years, I'm like, okay, that can't be yours. Right. You're feeling sourced, yeah. But and then you look at it and you're like, no, this is distilled in bottles.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

It's gotta be because there's this is not like any sourced whiskey out there. So this is very much the is anybody else getting this green, like a sour caramel apple? Yes, yes. Is that weird? No, I'm getting it, right? It's like a green apple, but it's caramelized. Like a green, green sour apple. It's very interesting. That and it comes towards the back end of it, and it's that's really good. Gosh, it's good. It makes you want to eat one.

SPEAKER_06 17:12

Oh, an apple, a sour apple?

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Oh no, a caramel apple, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:15

It reminds me more and more of the uh tropical Skittles. I cannot get that out of my head. We talk about we mentioned on the last episode uh bourbon is bourbon is bourbon that's coming out of Kentucky. There's no variance, right? No, that's what you said.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

We said they were absolutely wrong.

SPEAKER_06 17:32

They were that was part of the conversation that we talked about. We brought up that idea, that topic, right? But it was brought up in conversation that I had with someone else because of the idea that rye, there's so many variations, so much variation within rye that people don't recognize, that people don't realize. Would you guys say this is like any other rye that you have had? The answer is no. Why?

SPEAKER_02 17:57

It's so freaking candy, and you're not a rye guy, and I'm not a big rye guy. I mean, I also think the name of this is perfect. So for anybody who hasn't, who's not a big fan of fish, if I had to say, is there any super friendly fish, or I don't know if I would say sweet, but like walleye is like cheese.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Non-fish people will eat walleye. Yeah, non-fish people will eat the candy of fish.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Exactly. And this is that, yes, and that is this tool. It is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

I I would a hundred percent agree. I think here's what the rye is doing, which this is very clever. I'm not sure how they're doing it. The rye for sure becomes only the proof. That's what I'm feeling. When I drink this, I feel like any any sort of proof that I'm getting, that's the rye, and vice versa. It doesn't taste like there's extra rye in here, it just becomes proof. I taste proof. It's only what 93 or something. The rye is hiding under the alcohol quote unquote burn. It's the it's the proof, is what you're getting.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Will the malted rye give you some creaminess and some sweetness?

SPEAKER_06 19:00

So that's the fun part is Liberty Pole distillery, their mash bill for their 100% rye, so their rye whiskey is malted and unmalted rye. And the reason for that is the malted rye almost makes rye friendlier. It draws it out, mellows it out just. Where do you get kind of you get that spice, but it's not like it's displaced. It's not you know, pow, punch in the face.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

It's a creamy, it displaces itself because there's all you're always gonna have flavor in there, rye, whatever you do to it. I think in this place it's hiding under proof. I've tried things that are non-ry with higher proof, and that tastes the same. But what you don't get with this rye is the spices, it's not spicy.

SPEAKER_06 19:41

If you didn't know it was a rye, would you say this is a rye?

SPEAKER_04 19:44

No, no, definitely not.

SPEAKER_06 19:45

Now, the first one we did, the OC D number five, y'all thought that was right. This is rye. This is high rye. Because it's nice. But so that's the crazy part. You should you start talking this is rye, but it's it's probably malted and unmalted rye.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Well, I think the OCD also had that deep, like this, this doesn't have anywhere near the deep chest rye like feel to it.

SPEAKER_06 20:09

And that one only had eight percent rye.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

Where the OCD definitely did, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Which is crazy. I think, yeah, I think any of the rye is is trans, it's creamy, and then the rest is going to right to the same place in your brain. That's that uh proof point would go to. And what you're left with is all the other flavors, which is quite amazing that they're and they're interplaying together with this creamy, sweet, artificial candy kind of a thing, which is such a weird combination, but it works, it totally works.

SPEAKER_06 20:37

So three of us, CJ, you're a rye guy. So three of us are rye. We enjoy rice. Blake, you're you're kind of getting more comfortable. Yeah, acclimated is a better word. Yeah, we three like our rye spice. With that in mind, and us really liking rice and Blake, you're getting acclimated, but you're still like, nah, I could do without. Do you think there's something to be said about the craft distilleries that are taking on rise, but they're making it they are more approachable? They're not changing that it's a rye, they're changing how the flavor comes out. It's still a rye, but we're we're making it to where there's a variation that's involved, right? This is not Rittenhouse, but this is rye. We're still talking rye, but not Rittenhouse Rye. We're talking like Rittenhouse's cousin, like a couple of lines down, kind of distant cousin, of like, you're still part of the family, but do I know you?

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah. I think a lot of the smaller distilleries, they kind of use the rye because if they know, hey, I'm gonna release something that's a little bit younger, you know, rye, you know, super spicy, like, hey, you're gonna get some flavor, right? I think that's why they use it. But I've never had a rye that tastes like this. And I'll be honest too. Going into this sort of series about, you know, underrated or, you know, undervalued, unknown distilleries, I was like, come on. It's almost like CrossFit, like everybody. Just into it's into it, right? And then that's all they talk about. Shut up about it. Yeah. Somebody would have found it out by now. And this has completely changed my perspective because it's just so different, so unique. And I mean, you you guys know me. I like my weeded stuff. Like, this is so freaking sweet. But there's a lot going on in here where I'm like, this is really good. I would go try to find this bottle.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

This, this definitely is a is a sweeter rye. But yet not in a bad way. It's the perfect kind of sweet for it.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

It's a good sweet.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

It definitely balances out your rye spice. It balances out everything. And I think that's I think that's the best thing I like about this is it's a very balanced sip.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

I think something to be said about this series is it's it's almost like when you think you've tried it all, right? And then there's things you haven't tried. This is like one of those things. You have we like you have not tried before. It's different.

SPEAKER_06 22:56

No, and it gives me hope. Personally, it gives me hope for rise. Because Chris and I have talked about on your whiskey journey, on your bourbon journey, you start out with weeded bourbons. You start out friendly. And after a while, you're like, this is really good, but is there more? And then you jump on the boat of okay, I want a little bit more flavor. Let's jump in proof, right? So I'm gonna go up a little bit more proofy, I'm gonna go to the barrel proof. And after a while, you're like, it's really good, but what's next? And then you jump into rye, and you're like, I've got the the the kick and the proof point without the proof, but I also have flavor. Before probably some of the more recent distilleries, craft distilleries, there was just one rye, one standard for rye, and it was Rittenhouse rye. It was old uh not, yeah, old hole, old hole. It was that's it was the Pikesville, it was you know, it was the uh peerless, it was rye spice out the wazoo, and that is what we that is rye, rye is that. Uh and then you had like, oh well, Canadian rye is different. You're like, well, that that doesn't work, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:02

We all kind of fell into the same category, and then you had Canadian rye, which is a sweeter version of that, right?

SPEAKER_06 24:06

So it was like we had no, we had no stepping stone, we had no ladder for rye to get to Rittenhouse. We had nothing to get to that spicy, spicy stuff. Now we've got this ladder that goes from this of like super friendly, super sweet. We're at our weeded bourbons for ries, right? The comparison of that, to where now I can slowly increase and find that rye journey to go, I like this. It's missing something. Let's go up to something else and find that. And then I'm missing it, let's go up to something more, you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Glad you said that because I was just thinking like maybe five minutes ago, like this is the bridge of the gap. Yes, right, yeah. And I think that this would be a great ladder from one from like Blake to like where Blake's at to like even more, like more rye's, you know what I mean? Because he's like getting into like that this is good for him, you know, but it's got rye in it, you know what I mean? It's a rye, right? Blake, imagine this.

SPEAKER_06 25:03

You yeah, I say this because you're you're part of the club. CJ, you've had Traver City, yeah, and they're ride.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

They're barrel-proof rye, Travis City. So good.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

But if you're not a rye guy, if you're not a rye guy, you don't want to try that first. Dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore.

SPEAKER_06 25:15

Yeah, I I think year two, I threw that into the club in their face and said, This is a barrel-proof barrel pick, I believe, of the rye. And it was hot. Blake came home with like 20 more chosen.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

He took his shirt off and he's like, What the hell?

SPEAKER_02 25:32

I'm a real man.

SPEAKER_06 25:33

It's like I gotta shave this. Had you had this instead of that, do you think, Blake, you'd find or have more of an appreciation for the flavor of rye?

SPEAKER_02 25:44

I think I would, but I think to play devil's advocate, I could ask everybody here, have you had a rye that tastes like this? And I would almost say, no. No, no. I think that would have got my hopes up, and then you would have given me something like that. And I'd been like, what the heck is this?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Yeah, being a rye dirty, being a rye guy, and Nick would say the same thing. We've tried a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of rye. And I'd be the first one to raise my hand. No, I have not tried anything like this, rye-wise. This is unique, this is different, this is amazing. And you still have to buy, and what you're saying, Nick, is we're actually going down. You and I are going backwards. Yeah, we're all going backwards. For somebody going backwards and appreciating it, wow. Yeah, that's something that's saying something.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

So I think I think for me, I go back to um, and I reference this a lot because whipsaw, if you've never had whipsaw, it's it's a different ride. It's a great ride. It is a great ride. I I go back to the episode where I had tried it at Nick's. There was an episode early on with Whipsaw, and Chris kept saying every time he'd take a sip, I can just, I wasn't here, but I could see it on his face when Nick would go, you just, you just every time you take a sip, Chris is like, I'm having a moment. I'm just having a moment with this. And but that's that's a finished, right? That's a finished. They they don't claim to distill, they finish in wine barrels. Like, that's different, right? This is different. This is this is the same kind of different in a different category off of rye. And whipsaw is a friendlier. Have you ever had yeah?

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Oh, yeah. I I I enjoy whipsaw. Whipsaw's I think that's another bridge because it's a finished rye.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

It is very and if you if you like finished and you want to go into rye, whipsaw is the way to go. If you like a sweeter bourbon, a creamy, a just great mouthfeel, as Chris likes. The mouthfeel. The mouthfeel. But like you like that. This is gonna be the perfect bridge into that. But it is, it is if you have rye in the center, right? And you want to bounce off into these different categories that could bring you in, different avenues that'll bring you in. This is that creamier, easier. Like, this is something I've never said this before, but this is something that could replace whipsaw for me as a daily drinker.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Wow, that's high praise.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Coming from C from me, that's a big deal because I'm all about my finished and I love my whipsaw.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

But if I could find this, how much I saw the price point and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. There's no way.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

The tag on this is amazing. $45 roughly. I haven't bought it in a year because usually when I buy whipsaw, I buy a case because it goes in the cabinet. Where's where's the price point on this?

SPEAKER_06 28:29

The price tag, Chris, is on the back of the bottle by you. $49.99.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

See, I'll probably I'll probably split between whipsaw and this if you're catching it.

SPEAKER_06 28:38

So I went for this over the double oaked because the double oaked was closer to $80 if I remember.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

The double oaked of of this, right? People here double oaked, I mean what's it? I didn't know. I was thinking the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 28:52

Like, what the walleye run, what we're having right now, they do a walleye run just normal seven, and they do a walleye run double oaked seven year. And it's the same stuff double oaked.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Oh, I might want to try that. It might be worth the money. At first, I was like, it's double. How can this be worth it?

SPEAKER_02 29:09

I mean, again, if you go by ten dollars a year, this is a freaking steal. This is double double oaked for 80. Yeah, I mean, that's almost what I was expecting this to be.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

I'd be 100% willing to put the money down for based on this, like, because you're adding just more complexity to something that's already amazing. It's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:29

I don't know what this says about New Holland as a company. Do you not believe your product will sell, or is this not that big of a deal to sell for more because you have your brewery? Your brewery's doing well, so it's not a money grab. The brewery has grown. Right. So it's not a money grab.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Something that in the craft, in the craft beer era, from what I understand, it's been a few years since I've been into the craft beer as heavy as I was. But in the craft beer era, New Holland's something that it's not, like I said, it's not founders, it's not big and huge, but yet in the craft beer era, it is it's known.

SPEAKER_06 30:04

It's something that's not like a big IPA. It is like it is Michigan through and through of like ales, red ales, whole like deep.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

You can't downplay the fact that it does cost money to pull this from one barrel, put it into another barrel, which is money, and age, and then pull it out and put it into a bottle. So, I mean, is that worth double the price? Maybe, maybe not. You're also paying for the idea of it as well. Uh I I think the price is fine. I think it does take time and money to pull from one barrel, to age in one barrel, pull, put it in another barrel, which is money, age and pull it out.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

But like you said, their beer, they're already aging in whiskey barrels.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

So their stout's already doing that. But for them, that's cheaper, right? Because they're reusing barrels they've already purchased. Right. But when you do bourbon for this, too, right?

SPEAKER_06 30:54

Well, so the dragon's milk they are.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

I don't know about this guy. This has got to be, well, it doesn't have to be because it's not bourbon. But I gotta think that this is a character, new American oak, just like bourbon would be. So that's cost. And then if you're throwing it into another barrel, that's gonna be another one of those. So that's money. Uh, but when they here's the thing that they save money, they save money on the beer because if they're using their old barrels for beer, that's recycling. Right. They're not having to buy new barrels and stuff, they're not having to do any of that. They're already using aged barrels that they already have that they have to get rid of for their beer. That's a perfect, like that's a good cost-effective strategy.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

So, with this being something that we think, we don't know this for sure, but we think they started early, right? And let it go. Do we think that any of their beers, these are the barrels that they're finished in? Absolutely. I think.

SPEAKER_06 31:46

Oh, I think uh the flavor of this, I think of their beer, which I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Absolutely. This is IPA, I gotta think this is IPA all day. I mean, I like I can't really drink it anymore, but I love beer. And to put beer in a barrel like this, and like are you kidding me? Like, wow, what a nice New Highland do an IPA?

SPEAKER_04 32:10

That's why I don't think it's IPA.

SPEAKER_06 32:11

I think it's more the flavor. This is this is flavor of uh IPA. If you're an IPA drinker, this is IPA flavor without the dryness.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

I think this would impart an IPA flavor for sure, without having to do IPAs, which is again for them cost saving, but also very uh smart and a good use of your resources.

SPEAKER_06 32:31

Now, here's my question: the uh that I want to ask them and figure out their double oaked version of this doesn't specify what barrels they use to re-oak it, like the for the doubling aspect. Is it a used spent barrel of this? Is it is it from their beer? Is it uh just a normal template?

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Double oaked. What you're trying to get is just what it says double oak. So the only re way to do double oaked right is to use new oak charred barrels every time because you're trying to get the most oak as you can. If you go to new charred oak and then you throw it in another barrel that had something else in it, are you getting that much new charred oak? No, you want the new charred. So you really need to go new barrel, new barrel, in my in my opinion, otherwise you're gonna impart something different.

SPEAKER_06 33:21

So here's what excites me is if they're already doing reused barrels for their stouts, and that's what they use then for the dragon's milk or dragon's milk origin, right? We're talking double oaked. This is the first true double oak that they've done and their whole lineup. Not this one, but their double oaked. But they're double-oaked version of this. And typically, double oaked for majority of distilleries that I've looked at is a toasted barrel that they use for the double-oaked aspect. Because it it's not a deep char, it's more sweeter. There's there's different flavors pulled into that. More oak kind of on the surface flavors. What are they gonna do with those used toasted barrels? Are they gonna then let beer sit in those? Because that would be a beer that I would be a imagine that in like a red ale.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

Yeah, that'd be a full-flavored beer. When did this first come out? Do we know?

SPEAKER_06 34:14

This year's the first time I've ever seen it. And the double oaked just came out a couple months ago.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Well, they're not letting the beer sit in it for too long, so they're probably already putting beer out that potentially toasted, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

So we're talking 16 to 18, 2016, 2018, somewhere around their distillery to lay this down. And they started in 2005?

SPEAKER_06 34:37

They got their start in 2005. The I'm pretty sure that's the brewery.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

So 14 years?

SPEAKER_06 34:44

Uh well, 20 years. 20 years. They've been open for 20.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Right, but I'm saying 14 years from when they laid this down to when they first started their beer. Where are they getting their what are they finishing their beer in?

SPEAKER_03 34:58

What barrels are they finishing? I don't think they started doing spirits right away. They do, I think they did the bur the beer first.

SPEAKER_06 35:04

They did the beer first, and what they did is they would take sourced bourbon. They their their beer barrel is what started first. It looks like there's like a dragon on it. It's not like if you see it on the shelves, you'll see it in Indiana. It's not like stands out as ours. They don't really make it known as much as dragon's milk and this is like that's ours. But I believe they were taking the used barrels once they pulled from those to bottle. That's what they were using barrel-wise for their dragon's milk origin.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

They had to have started with sourced barrels, and then here, I'll grab a picture of yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:38

You will recognize their their original, like what they started with.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

You'll be like, I've seen that out until Dragon's Milk or the Dragon's Origin came out. I keep going dragon's milk, that's the beer. The until Dragon's Origin came out, I didn't even know that they distilled. And then when that hit, I went, Oh my gosh, this is so good. And I had to have it.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

I mean, if you were to ask me if they'd made anything besides dragon, the origin. See, I've I've never seen that bottle.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

I didn't know that they even made this. And I guess to piggyback off of this, I mean, that price point is amazing. Do you think they're trying to market towards just their beer drinkers and thinking, hey, they might not want to spend a lot of money on this because I think this hits way above the price point.

SPEAKER_06 36:21

Even their their origins, uh, at most, I've spent 75 bucks on their that's a good price for it. But I think what you saw for 50.

unknown 36:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

So 50 to 70 wire is the origin at 50, 57 or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

That's the thing you run into. It's not the price that gets you. It's there's not many bottles out there. When you find it, you buy it. Because it'll go and people will find it and they'll see it. But they don't, it doesn't go for a ton. It's just you just can't find it when because there's just not many made.

SPEAKER_06 36:50

You asked a good question, and I I think it's the wrong question, but on the right track. Okay. Are they aiming towards their beer drinkers? Yeah. I think what they're aiming towards is they're a beer community that doesn't drink good whiskey, and their beer community won't spend this kind of money on whiskey.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Yeah, exactly. I think that's what you were pointing towards, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

So you had the right you had the right idea. I think the wrong question isn't like, are they aiming towards their their beer community? I think they're a brewery that is trying to figure out how to sell whiskey and they don't understand pricing for whiskey.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

I I have a friend of mine that is big craft beer drinker, yeah, but uh very much appreciates craft beer in the last few years, really, really, really gotten into whiskey. And now he would, I think he I would classify himself as he's on the same level in both, right? Beer and whiskey. I don't know that he's ever had this, and I think if he had this, he would 100% go, that's fantastic. And I think it would be a great crossover from New Holland's New Holland's dragon milk to this, back and forth. You can understand it. Do you get it?

SPEAKER_06 38:01

Do you think going from the craft beer world to starting into whiskey? Do you think you'd try this and go, that is a great price point, or it's still a little bit more than that?

SPEAKER_04 38:10

I think it's a great price point. I think if you're going straight from the dragon's milk to this, this still might be a little far up there. Because we're talking about a rye, right? It is a mellowed rye because of what it is, but I don't think it would be a good uh introductory to whiskey, but I think it's a great correlation to what the distillery and the brewery have going.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

I think I think what you're trying to say, CJ, is if you were like a just a whiskey drinker, this would be a big step. But if you are a not just a beer drinker, but a beer drinker that enjoys the dragon's milk, this would actually be an easier step. Yes, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Which is weird because you don't really talk about like how easy it's not an easy step to go from beer to whiskey, but it would be an easier step to go from dragon's milk beer, like I like this to this whiskey. I like it.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Because of the flavor, if you can get past, and that I was thinking about this earlier. If you take this, if you take this glass and you you touch it to your lips, very, very faint, faint taste of it, right? Like a small sip, you're gonna get all cream. You're gonna get no spice, you're gonna get anything. If you take a moderate sip of this, you're going to get more of the rye in the end of it. Yeah, it unfolds a little bit. If you can uh distinguish the two depending on how you want to sip it, you're it's gonna change a lot. Where there are some ryes, a lot of ryes, you touch it to your lips and you bring it in, it's it's gonna be it's gonna be spice.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

You take a non a non-wiske drinker and you give them knob creek, they're gonna be like, no.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

What is this ish you put in front of us, right?

SPEAKER_04 40:02

The amount, I think the amount you take in a sip will depend on how much spice and how much you get out of this. Where some of them, like knob creek, you take a little sip of that touch to your lips, you're still gonna get the rye. It zings, yeah. Yep, this doesn't have the zing until you really get a decent amount to it.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Which again, a non-wiske drinker is gonna sip it anyway.

SPEAKER_04 40:23

So well, most. So you gotta kind of coach them through it.

SPEAKER_06 40:27

To kind of go off of Blake's idea of the price point and a beer drinker. If I'm thinking of craft beer, craft beer is a bit more expensive than like domestic kind of feel, right? But okay, there's a step from Bud Light to Kraft beer. Yes, I agree. Big step, right? But if I'm in the craft beer world, what I'm spending on it is still cheaper compared to whiskey. If I'm going from craft beer to this, I might look at this for 50 bucks and go, uh, that that seems a bit, that seems a bit that's that I I've I have some hesitation.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

I think what Blake was saying was I I think if you were to go from beer to this, it'd be a steep price point. But I think what Blake was saying was that if you're a whiskey drinker and you try this, you're like, how is it this cheap?

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Oh, yeah, completely. It's kind of like a double question, right?

SPEAKER_06 41:18

And then you but he also dog, is this aimed towards their beer, like their beer drinkers, like price point, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess like hoping, hey, we make this good beer. Why don't you try the whiskey?

SPEAKER_03 41:31

I think I think it's keeping the price down because they are trying to reach the beer market, and that's a great deal for whiskey drinkers, right? Like we're we're picking up on the perks of that, right?

SPEAKER_06 41:41

I think it's a great deal for beer, it's a it's a price point that beer drinkers will pay, but they may have some hesitation, right? It's a price point that whiskey drinkers will have zero hesitation for and go, done. How many bottles can I buy right now? Like this is it. And I think it's uh it's not necessarily, I don't know if it's an aim at that or a lack of knowledge on their end, understanding what whiskey drinkers will pay versus what bur what uh beer drinkers will pay. And I'm not going to start that conversation with them and have an argument because I want this price point. Exactly. This is wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

Like vice versa, too, though. If you're if you're a whiskey drinker and you're thinking about craft beer and you like to partake in a craft beer, and you want to go drink a dragon's milk from this, it's never thought about that.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

Beautiful, it goes both ways.

SPEAKER_06 42:37

Yeah, it does go both ways. That's a good idea. Yeah, man. It gets me it gets me excited for breweries to start distilling because we've had a few where uh I I think of Cincinnati Distilling. They started out as a brewery, well, started out IT, then bought breweries. So they they went into the brewery world and then they went into the distilling world. And they they crossed over, they they they crossed too many paths, and I think they wanted distilling, started brewing, and then found what they wanted, but they keep kind of reverting back to the brewery kind of thing, and not in a good way. Whereas you got some of these breweries up in Michigan that are like, we make beer, and then they go, Oh, but you know what? We there's a lot of similarities between making beer and and distilling. There's enough similarities that I think we could have not just a ease crossover and the distillation, but you also bring this idea of a palette that you're bringing over into distilling.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

The palette, the palette is the same for this as you would have for dragon's milk, 100%.

SPEAKER_06 43:46

I think the palette is what's missing when you go from distillery to brewery. Yeah, for sure. And so that gets me excited for like some of these Michigan breweries that are like, hey, we could we could start distilling. I look at them and I go. You dress you start distilling your own crap, and I will I will find it. Like if you want to source it, I don't want it. But when you start distilling your own stuff, I really want to try it because I think you have something.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

Have all of you had the dragon's milk beer?

SPEAKER_02 44:14

I actually don't know if I've had the dragon's milk beer.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

So I would I would I'm excited though. I want to try it. I would love for you to try the dragon's milk beer. Okay. And see, I would love to hear like what you think compared to this. Okay. And that'd be cool. Because with your chemical background and like the notes that you taste and the things that you taste, I'd love to hear what you think about that compared to this.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

I want to try a couple a boilermaker with this. Oh yeah. Oh, oh my gosh. How about that? Dragon's milk beer, and then you dump a shot of this in. I bet you that would be fantastic. What would you call that? Dragon's Breath? There you go. Ooh, dragon's breath. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

I like this idea. New Holland Brewery. If you're if you're listening to this.

SPEAKER_06 45:02

Have us over. We'll we'll interview and we'll have a dragon's breath at the same time. I want to raise my hand to be part of that. We started with the three U's, right? Unnamed, unknown. Underrated. Underrated. Would you guys agree this fits in that category?

SPEAKER_03 45:18

I think it's more in the unknown. Unknown for sure. Because if people knew about this, I think that it would be even just on the specs, reading the specs off, I think people would be in. Right? I don't think you would ever try this and be like, yeah, you know what I mean? It's underrated. But I think it's unknown.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

I think anybody that knows about the origin. You guys know the dragons. No, but anybody that knows about the dragon's origin, if you know about that and you didn't know that this was out there, you're gonna buy this.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

I think that that's a case because I knew about the dragon origin. I did know about this.

SPEAKER_06 45:50

So as a as a big rye whiskey guy, would you going from Rittenhouse to this go, this is underrated?

SPEAKER_03 45:58

Well, yeah, I mean it's you can't compare this to Rittenhouse, but it's a rye. So different. Yeah, but it's a different way.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

I would say you have rye, and then you have this like in a branch off.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

I would say as a whiskey drinker specifically, like I wouldn't say a rye guy or a wheat guy or a because I think what you do is when you try this, and Blake, tell me if I'm wrong, uh, I don't think it matters if you're into rye or wheat. This is something unique. This is a whiskey that is unique, and as a whiskey drinker specifically, this is something you'd want to try, whether you're a wheat guy or not. Completely rye guy or not.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

I would have had no clue this was a rye if you wouldn't have told me that. Yeah, it's one of those. If you just gave me a port of it, it'd be like, this is delicious. And then after that, you could tell me it's rye and be like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Would you think it was a high rye mash bill?

SPEAKER_02 46:44

No way. I don't think I would have thought that.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

I think I probably would have would have gone, okay, this has got a pretty decent amount of rye to it. Yeah, but I'm very sensitive in the chest, but too.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

You could apply that into just the different spices and stuff. It is so creamy. It is so creamy. It's just so sweet though, sweet. I don't think I would have guessed it. I I I really think that, and I'm a rye guy, and I'm telling you, I don't, I don't know if I I don't know if I want to classify this as a rye. It's a very whiskey, it's a rye variant. It's a variant, yeah. But it's it's good. We all enjoyed it. You guys can get your own bottle. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

I'm going home with you, so that's so good. Yeah, that's definitely what I'm looking for now.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

I love that it's a malted rye. I'm surprised that Chris liked it because of the malted rye. I'm liking it. There's no bad aftertaste.

SPEAKER_06 47:33

I figured you would have seen malted, and you're like, oh, it's a single malt. No, no, no, this one was good. Very happy about that. Well, we are moving from the great state of Michigan into New York, and we're gonna throw in a little special for you to like, I really want to listen. This is a new style of rye. Well, that sounds exciting.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

I'm excited.

SPEAKER_06 47:55

This is a new style of rye, folks. You ready for the next one? Get ready.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspot.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.