Old Overholt Bonded and Cornell and Diel Eight State Burley!

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick. And I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

It's getting exciting, fellas. Bottled and bond. Now we got some bottled and bond. 100-proof. Now we're cooking with gas. Strap in. Things are getting a little exciting. That's cruising speed. Now I can't remember. Nick, you will know this because we talked about this a long time ago. I just can't remember. Why do you think I know this? Does this bottle only come in this size? Yes. That I know of. That I know of. I don't think it comes in a fifth. I haven't seen it in a fifth. Is that a liter, Steve? Or not quite a liter. It's a bigger bottle. It's a liter. I don't think it comes in anything but a liter. And I don't think we touched on it last time, but we're talking cheap bottles. They're throwing it in glass. Like, you gotta respect that. They could be going plastic. I mean, even this one now, because it's bonded. We thought that that wasn't a thing. Right. But they could be going plastic, and they're not. You're sticking with glass. You gotta respect that.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

And uh not available in Ohio, it seems.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, I was about to say it's not in Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, I just looked. The only thing on there is uh the 114, the 80, and 11. But you're saying you can't get the you can't get the bonnet in Ohio in Ohio? No 114 is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

I guarantee I bought this in Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

I think you did. I don't think they do it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Losers, I agree, but you can get other places still, right? Like this isn't like a gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

This is just why would they out of all of the bottles? This one would be definitely needed to be kept.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

It's Ohio. Why do they do what they do? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

They don't need to because for me, like we're gonna do other things, but for me, I mean, you're we're like I said, we're getting excited, like Hunt the Bonded and then the 114 at some point, like starting to talk about some of my favorite bottles, you know, like not just out of the series.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

So that's not a 750 milliliter. No, it's a liter. So uh total wine that has multiple locations, Kentucky's like not in Ohio, yeah, not in Ohio, but they do uh 750 for 25 bucks. Bonded, and all they sell is 750 per month.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Where did I get this bottle, dude?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

But they're red caps. That's the other thing. They're no longer doing well, Ohio does not sell the red cap.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Well, what's the red cap versus the black cap?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

It's still a red cap does 80 proof what we just did for four years. Black cap is three.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Used to have a red cap. Yeah, but for it to be bonded, it needs to be 100 proof, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So they do that, but it's a red cap.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Now it's a red cap, but it's bonded, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

And they do 80 proof at four years at red cap.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

80 proof at four years. So these are so they don't even do that. The one we did, but uh we don't they don't even do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Uh I don't uh they may still release it, just not as much.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Other than it's new, it's a four-year. Well, how about that? I mean, I knew that these bottles were old because we got these are really old fairly early on into like getting some stuff. I I want to say we got these in 2016.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

It's been it's been a while, been a how many.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Maybe maybe earlier, maybe 2015. I it was around that time period.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So a lot of people are still selling the bonded at, or they may now be selling the bonded at 750 versus a liter.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Because I I remember buying a few of these.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Uh, but I bought them from a local store here in Dublin. So I mean it's not like we were going to we were going to other places, but I don't remember picking up old overholt in Kentucky.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah, the you can tell immediately that this is a step up, and not in a bad way, it's not like acetony step up in a bad way, it's like step up and flavor, just on yeah, just on the nose.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

You're you're smelling like a lot more flavor.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah, it smells better. Like the the 80 proof had a little bit of acetony kind of thing to it. This that's gone. This is much.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

He came home with a college degree. I think it's he came home with a high school degree. 80 proof was GED, it was good. But what's the difference? GED high school degree?

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Well, I I graduated. Oh, I'm saying four yeah, you didn't get what I was going, four years. It's bottled and bond.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I went to high school for four years. I went to high school for four years for a high school degree. I did not just do a GED in a couple months. You didn't draw out. I see, I see what you're saying. I get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. The 114 is like I graduated high school and then went to college.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Oh, I thought the 114 was like maybe got his master's.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Oh, that's the tenure. We're we're going above that. What about where's the doctorate? We got more. Oh, that that's the the Monica Hala. There's more. Oh, I see. That's true. We're we're going up there, my friend. What are you guys smoking with this? What are we smoking with it? We're gonna do uh you've already tried it. That's not fair. What normally you pick before you try.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Normally I do, but I was excited. I haven't had what we're getting. We've had we're doing a series of old over old guys. Um, this is basically the same thing at a higher proof point. So, what would you pick with this? I'm gonna go. We're gonna we're sticking with kind of basic blends, even though this is a little higher proof. I wanted to go with something a little bit more stronger in like tobacco flavor. So, like the other one we did had a little bit more like other things going on. This one's gonna have more like tobacco flavor because this is a burly. This is eight state, eight-state burly. Cornell and deal, it's a small batch. So when they came, they came out with this in are we sticking with Cornell and Deal? Not just Cornell and uh no, I think we'll do other stuff, but I this particular one is this one. We are oh I like Cornell and Deal. I got a lot of their stuff, but this one was in 2022. They came out with one of their small batches, and it's it's burly's uh predominantly burlies from 2014, and they threw some Orientals Virginia and bright and red Virginia's in there. But basically, it's just a kind of a no-nonsense blend.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

So not finished or not uh topped with anything.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

No, it's it's it's showcasing the leaf. Oh, so that's why I think this would be good because it's really it's tobacco flavor, uh a burly tobacco, American tobacco at that. This fits this bottle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

That idea, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah, our tribute to historic U.S. burly growing regions, so top tier burlies. I mean, there's these are like uh highly matured varietals, and uh they don't make this anymore, I don't believe. This was a small batch, so this was kind of a first come, first serve kind of a deal, and I can't get it. I did. I got a bunch of this and I smoked a bunch of this, and we're gonna do it. I think well, yeah, they did 10,000 tens. 10,000 tens, okay. From 322, and then this is 10, 6,385. So yeah, we will we'll get into this one, but it's a pop too. Yeah, yeah, and it's uh it's got some uh you know, for just a few years, it's got some some stuff going on. When was this 22? Okay, early 22.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Okay, all right. We haven't even gotten to the bottle, but there's something about bonded that I will I will always go for bonded stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Bottom bond is just a good like if you were to collect a type of whiskey for me, I think it would be bottled and bond over rye, over bourbon, over American singer, like over whatever.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

That would be an interesting collection to have only bonded bottles.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Only bonded bottles. I've told Mary whenever she's shopping without me, I just want her to look for bottleneck and bond. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

I mean, have you ever had a bad bonded bottle?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

No, no, I don't think I have.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

I don't think I I've never been like this. It may have been overpriced, yeah, but maybe overrated, but still good. Yeah, but I've never had like a bad one.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

And this is not topped with anything? No, a lot of grape jelly.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Grape jelly, okay. Yeah, but a good way, like I get what you're saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Kind of like the grape jelly, you'd use it with a peanut butter sandwich, yes, or like uh but I mean, like a very not even like McDonald's.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

You're talking hints of yes, not like overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

But to go back to bottle and bond, anytime Mary's out shopping by herself, I have told her to the point where she knows and she'll look for like what's bottled in the bond. Like, that's what I know is good, is if it's bottled in the bond, then I know he'll like it. I don't know that I've had a bad bottled and bond. I have had a few where we have increased in flavor. Uh, we have not even increased, we have changed in flavor in a good way from bonded to something else, but not that bonded was ever bad. In fact, Chris and I have gone through a few bottles of Rittenhouse Rye Bonded that were single barrel picks that we have literally skated through in a whole day of opening and finishing without us saying, Man, this is the best thing I've ever had. The the single barrels that are like the the bonded haven't been great. The ones that have been bonded but blended within their season, right? So within the restrictions of bonded, those have been significantly greater than the single barrels that aren't meant to be single barrels.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Does that make sense? So so the bonded single barrel may not be the way to go.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

No, so uh Henry McKenna does their bonded, but it's a single barrel bonded. That's that is the way to go. If the company does it themselves as a single barrel bonded, yes. But if it's a barrel pick, there's a bonded barrel pick. I don't know that that's a definite yes. I think it's a risk and worth it, but with a caveat, it won't be what you're expecting. It's good. I mean, right? The Rittenhouse ones we had were good.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

I've always said a bonded single barrel is actually the safest way to play it if you're a distillery, but not a barrel, not a barrel pick bonded, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm just saying that a single barrel bonded makes sense because that way you're not accidentally blending it with something outside the season.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So you're saying that's if that's what we always did and only did, yeah, that would be good.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

It would make sense. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

I mean, Kenry McKenna.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah. It just makes the most sense because you have to stick with that one uh distilling season. Right. Uh, and if you were to blend two things together from different seasons, technically that's not a bonded bourbon. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

But if we did this old overhaul bonded as a single barrel, which this is not, would it be the same?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

No, I mean I think every single barrel varies.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

So would you say if it's a bigger one? Because based on based on the age where it's aged at or the decision where they always do single barrel bonded, they do blended bonded, right? So bonded can still be blended within the same season. As long as it's pulled from barrels that are made in the same season.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

So if if a uh a company did a blended bonded but someone came in and picked a single barrel of that bonded, would it be the same? Would it be worth it? And worth it in the risk, not worth it in the price tag.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

I mean, I think it'd be cool. I mean, I think it's great. I think it's better than it's written house, did it? Yeah. I think it's better than what you would get otherwise. But I think that's true with almost any single barrel.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

But would you say the written house that we've had is is better than so we've had Rittenhouse barrel picks. Have they been better than Rittenhouse?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I'll tell you one thing. I mean, most written houses we've had, they've got it down to a science that and they're blended and whatever, but they taste fairly similar across the board. But when you get a single barrel, all of a sudden you're like, this is different. Good or bad. I mean, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Most of the time, good though, right? Like nine times out of ten, probably good. I can think of a few times I've had a single barrel that was maybe not my favorite. But so you think it's been better than? I think for the most part, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Interesting. I think it's been worse than.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Oh, okay. I think most of the time you get a single barrel, I think it's better because it's variation, and I appreciate it for what it is.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Ah, so you're not comparing two. No, you're thinking different.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

I'm like, I it's nice, it's nice to have a break, a change of pace. But I have had a few things before that I'm like not good. And we're not talking about bonded, but if you talk about um wood for double oaked, I'm pretty sure those are not blended together, right? Or are they?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Well, I've had a few single barrel double oaks.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Maybe it's a single barrel I'm thinking of, but I had a variation one time of a wood for double oaked, and I was like, this is not good. Whereas normally it is good, this one is not good. I think it might have been a single barrel pick because it was different than the other one. I was like, This is you know, I know I expect it to be good, and I think I've had one single barrel that you gave me that was a wood for double oaked. You your buddy gave it to you, and I tried some of it, and that was fantastic. And then I had another one, I was like, this is not good. So I you just you never know. But I think more times than not, a single barrel is gonna be good if for any if if anything else, if for the change of pace, right? Because there is gonna be some variation there. Whereas, like, I don't know how they do it, but they're able to like recreate the same taste and flavor profile, like every every time that they blend bottles together. So it's just crazy. It's just crazy that they can do that. Um, like because Rittenhouse rye typically is the same bottle for bottle, you know what I mean? Whereas we've had we've had variations with the single barrels we've had, they're different.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

So we're we're jumping into old overhaul bonded. Do you know are they all the same? Uh they're a blend. So yeah. But is it like scientifically we're we're down to the same every time? Oh, that I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

I don't know if it was talked about, like no, which is yeah, no, they're they're not talking about the the making them all the same kind of thing, but I think that they probably have a very similar process with all of them. They're not going for uniqueness with every batch or anything like that. They're going for uniformity, but they're not really talking about that in particular. You know, this pipe tobacco is creamy, it is very creamy. I forgot about that. It's uh it's a burly, so and already usually I think burlies normally have kind of a creaminess to them, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

They can. A lot, a lot of nutty, kind of earthy tones, but they can be creamy. This one's just more creamy than cream soda creamy, you know, like it's very good. And I don't think there's no orientals in it in that. Is it is no? I think there was a was there some orientals in that?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Was it that one?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I know that there was Virginia's, but is there Orientals in that?

SPEAKER_01 14:23

There is okay. There are burlies, Orientals, Bright Virginia, and Red Virginia.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Okay. So the Orientals can be creamy, sweet and sour, you know, incense-like can be. But uh in this case, it's just more like cream soda, creamy. It's delicious. It's going really well with this. It's going the creamy. This is going, this is a better pairing than the last one was.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Because this is a bit uh bright. So this is a better pairing. This is very good. 80 to 100 is a bit more bright in flavor, a bit more lights are on. This whole bottle is a lot more like eyes wide open. Oh, yes. Yep. Like we're walking in the dark for 80 proof. Now we turned on the lights. Not like LED, we turned on like a comfort light kind of feel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

We lit a kerosene lamp. It's very good. Speaking of bonded, though, that's the next part of our little history here is for them because they were one of the first ones to really latch into the bonding. And so, or like in the first group, they kind of became the first brands to adopt Bill Taylor was like the the the yeah, we're gonna do this kind of thing. Right, right. No, they just kind of they they accepted it pretty early on and started the Bottom Bond Act, and that was in 1897. Now, just a touch before then, though, in 1881, the grandson of Abe Overhold took over the business.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Okay, so father, son, uh grandson.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Uh father, son, and then great grandson of the original. Oh, so the the grandson. So we jumped a generation, yeah. We jumped a generation. Interesting. Okay, and it was uh Henry Clay Frick is the gentleman's name. What the frickin' A? Uh and Henry Clay Frick is on par with your Carnegie's and Melons, really, and all of them. Yeah, he uh he doesn't have the same name seg. Yeah, Rockefeller, all of them guys. He was in the steel business. I never would have thought a frick, a frick could could uh elbow with the yeah, the reason he's not as well known is because he's an earlier stage in the steel production.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Is that where that term comes from? What the frick? Frick frickin' frick.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Oh, I don't know. I wonder if it is really cool. That would be really interesting, Steve. Come on, I know. I I think I just I don't know if Frick is related to the other F-word, but because that's what it is. The other F word is older than well, yeah. But is this is that do you say Frick as a you say frick, so you're not cussing, but is that related to this?

SPEAKER_02 16:47

I think in Germany Frick is very close to yeah, yeah, if yeah, well, then I think that's where it came from. No, in this case, Friken, Friken, I think is the German word for it. Yeah, I'm I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that might be it.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

So he made coked ore, is what it's which is it just means it's changing ore to be ready to be made into steel. So cooked, coked, yeah. He coked ore. He coked ore. So we're coked out, we're coked out, brick, coked ore, yeah, and I don't care. When I first saw this, I was like, Coke, like Coca-Cola? Is that what we're talking about? But no, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

It was I'm glad you go that route. I go the other. No, okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

So yeah, he was he was with and worked with Corn uh Carnegie Steele and at that time and became one of the wealthiest people in the world.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

And he's the one that took the brand to Bondon.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

That happened during his his time as the head, yes. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Okay, is but well, sorry, when you say as the head, he may not have been the one, like a proponent to say let's do this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Um this was very much a a passion project, a side project for him because he's uh a steel tycoon kind of guy, so fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So it wasn't like uh this is our main source of income.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Oh no, they this is like pennies in the bucket for him.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Like this is like a second source of income, but I want to continue on the path to be bonded.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, but thank God for it. And here's why he decided when he started doing this, he took on a partner, and he took on Andrew Mellon as familiar. It is Andrew Mellon is part of that same time period, and there's a college. Oh, Mellon College? It's not McMellon, is it? Oh, it's watermelon. Is it McMellon or Mellon? Just Mellon. Andrew Mellon, he's an industrialist. He took on. Let me see. I'm trying to find the the name of the is that college in New York? Mellon University?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Mellon University? Is that a legit thing? Yeah, it's like a Ivy League. It's pretty prestigious, actually. Seriously. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Every time we have melon, I think of like watermelon, musk melon. So, like uh he's he's a pretty legit guy.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, he's he's like I say he's like top, he's like top five wealthiest people in the world. I mean, very, very connected. And he took on uh melon. And the reason that met that matters so much is because Melon becomes the head of the treasury and he goes political. So he is in charge of the treasure.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So was this an insider kind of job? This is an insider job.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

All right, all right. Mellon is there, he's part, he's part of this, and so he uh is one of them that gets them the the rights to being able to continue to make things during prohibition.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Like, yeah, you're in. You're you're my buddy. I kind of I might have some kind of financial gain in this. You're in. Yeah. Oh Carnegie Mellon.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

That's why that's why we know Mellon. It's Carnegie Mellon. But yeah, yeah, so he is a well-connected gentleman.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

So, okay, so Bonded has a lot to do with the Treasury as far as they have a say, they have a key, they have a say, they have an oversight, right? Was there any kind of uh I don't know, uh, idea of dual relationship or dual uh I don't know what to call it. Uh duplicity. Yeah, I am part of the treasury, but I also own this, I'm partner in this.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

I don't think he I don't think uh uh Clay uh was necessarily involved in the Treasury. Okay, but I do think he took advantage of the fact that his friend is there was a lot of money going under tables and handshakes.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

So do you think there was more involved with that with Bonded?

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Why do you think insider trading became a thing? Like you're not not allowed anymore.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, yeah. Like this time period is the time period that all those laws came from.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

People were like, that this is what you need to invest in this quick because this is gonna blow. Okay, and like you're telling your friends, and then all of a sudden they made money off of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

So we we talk about bonded as being this great thing, right? We talk about each Taylor was bonded, right? So Colonel Taylor had a lot to do with it. We talk about this being bonded, we talk about written house, we talk about like these old, old brands of being bonded because of what it meant. Then we, you know, years, generations later, we talked to Watershed, and like Greg said bonded was my my baby, my puppy. I that is my go-to because of what it took to get there. Everyone I've talked to since, if they have a bonded, it's it takes so much to get to that point. Do you think that back in the day it didn't take as much because there was hands in the pocket kind of thing? No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

No, because these are different people, like it's not the same people in charge of everything. Right. And so, like, they're they're the people doing the bonding is not the head of the treasury.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

No, but the treasury had involvement, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, but like it's the same way that he has the same job as I it's the same way that the head of the IRS is the same person doing taxes like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

He's not gonna benefit from he's gonna benefit from. It but he might not be like no, it's not the only egg in his basket. No, yeah, like that's that's enough.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Like the bonded part of this is nothing, it's just bringing legitimacy to to bourbon. He's doing it, he they're taking advantage of the time period. Okay, this is a legitimate, this is a way to make yourself legitimate because that's what bonded was. That was that was a way to bring legitimacy to the whiskey business, and they took advantage of that, they were able to do it, they did it. That's that. And so I don't think they cut corners in that way, like in order to in order to say it.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

This is pre- this is on the cusp of prohibition as well. You have to think people are starting to come around to like whiskey's bad. So anything they could do to bring legitimacy to whiskey was a good thing, and monetarily, it was a good thing because people were making money. Guys like this had their hands in these, uh their fingers in these pies, and they were making money. If bourbon did well, I'm making money. It's not the only thing they weren't hanging their hat on it, but if they did well, they were making money off of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

So they wanted to bring legitimacy to these idea that melon left over hold in 1925 because of its ties to whiskey and this being the middle of prohibition, and him like, I gotta get out of this because this is not a safe place for me to be in politics.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Well, prohibition was a big bigger thing than people realize. I mean, they were raiding, they were raiding rooms like this, you know what I mean? And they were dumping some arresting people, people dude, dude, people served like prison sentences for just having booze. Like it was you know, we don't see it as the big big thing it was, but it was a big deal, you know what I mean? Back then.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

So we didn't have hands in pockets, we were just friends with, yeah, exactly. Partners, we weren't friends, we were partners.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

The bonding part of this, I don't think there was that much like benefit to it necessarily. Uh the prohibition part, absolutely there was like the prohibition part. Like Andrew Mellon was like, Hey, I got you.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

I'm gonna make it so you're one of these six people that are gonna be able to continue to make whiskey, and I and I will be able to continue to make whiskey because he's a partner and it's gonna help him look better too, because like, hey, this is medicine, I wasn't just one of those guys trying to get you know get one over on everybody.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

So, yeah, on the on the prohibition end, for sure, this is coating pockets and and shaking hands and doing backyard deals. The bonded part, not so much, I don't think, anyway. But yeah, so yeah, the the bonding happens in 1897.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

So it's interesting. So we got father, son, great grandson, right? And great grandson decides to partner with someone else. Yeah, he's already a multimillionaire, maybe possibly billionaire. Why partner with someone else? Uh interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

The the rich just want to become richer, yeah. Exactly. That's the thing. That's how these guys actually amass wealth, is because you don't stop when you have wealth, you continue on, you just double down. That's how you truly get wealthy, you know what I mean? So none of these people are gonna stop. It's just like, I mean, it's just a bigger gamble at that point because you can go to the casino and if you bet twenty dollars and you win twenty dollars, that's great. Like you doubled your money. But if you bet $200,000 and you win $200,000, all of a sudden, this is a different ball game. You're still the win's still the same, it's still doubling your money, but you you have to get it. You double $200 million, yeah, and all of a sudden you're like, okay, 200, like now I have $400 million, I only had $200 yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

That's I'm doing pretty good, you know. I don't know if you guys remember this too much, but uh, or or played around with it all that much, but right before, after, during COVID and all that, the the meme stocks, the the Blockbuster and uh AMC theaters and all those, and how people were manipulating the market and and doing that. Didn't they they did like a show on that or a movie or something like that? Oh, sure they did. Um, if they haven't, they will. I'm sure there's been documentaries on it, but I don't know if there's been any movies about it yet. But I was too late for Blockbuster, like it was too, it was already out, it was done. But because of it, I was like, uh, I'll I'll join it. This is all a Reddit page, like that's how this all happened. So I joined it and like I did the AMC thing, and like I'm I like did make a lot of money off of it, but like I made a lot of money off of like I I I had I was playing with like 50 bucks. Yeah, if you had put a lot of money in it.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

But like if I would have been able to play with a thousand, like or a hundred thousand would have been yeah, like some of the some people did different today. Yeah, I'm trying to think of what else. There is there, did they do a movie on they did the big sword, GameStop, GameStop, the GameStop on GameStop? That's what I was thinking of. GameStop, and that's what they were doing with that. People were putting, they were putting in what I mean. Not Blockbuster, GameStop. That was the first one, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, yeah, it was uh I knew I I had a feeling that you meant GameStop because Blockbuster is before that.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I was like, Yeah, GameStop, what yeah, timetable's wrong. Yeah, GameStop. Yeah, I was too late for GameStop, but that's when I heard about it. And then the next one that didn't AMC I could have played with Bitcoin too, you know. Who knows? You just never know.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

I I got very close to buying some of that for for a while, and I I laughed about it. I was like, no, I'm not doing that. And I mean, you could have made bank on that.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

I I thought for sure that was too I have the similar story that a lot of people do of early Bitcoin because there was a time at the beginning of Bitcoin when you could turn on your computer and mine Bitcoin on your computer, yeah. Like, and it was a it was an easy thing, and it was just a dumb thing running in the background of your computer. You didn't really think about it, and you'd have two or three Bitcoin on there in like a day and do your thing and all that. And I was one of those people. I did that, I had you know, it's not a lot, but maybe two, three bits. And and uh that computer died, and that wallet was lost, and that money is just gone, and it and that's like that's like three hundred thousand dollars. There was a point not very long in where it became more expensive to use the electricity than what you would be getting in the bitcoin, and so I stopped doing it. But the fact is, I had two bitcoin and it was just there, and then that wallet got lost with the with the diamond computer, and now it's just gone, yeah, and those two bitcoin are worth you know a couple hundred thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Opa asked me about investing in Facebook, like like way early on, and me and Bob both told him no, and I I was really the one that tell him, like, no, like don't do that, that's not a good idea. And that was stupid because I did the math a long time ago. But if he had put in what he said he was gonna put in, I mean he would have gotten out like four times its value, and he was gonna put in a lot, but I you know, I didn't know when Facebook started.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

We were this, I think a lot of people were saying, like, this is just like MySpace or whatever. My space is going away, this is gonna take over in five years. Something else is gonna take over, it'll be a different one.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

He asked me, he's like, How does Facebook make money? And I said, Well, it's based on this and the marketing and the ads. It's like I just don't see it being a viable. I was wrong, apparently. Yeah, just I just never thought it was gonna be lucrative. I thought it would stick around, but I just didn't think you would make money off of it. But I guess I don't get how much people make, like even the YouTube stuff. I just didn't think you'd make that much. People make a lot of money on YouTube. Like everybody skips the ads, but they make a ton of money. Like, I don't know how that works. Like, who's paying for that?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

You know, but but if we're talking investment, this is the perfect time to go in because this bottle is so much better than the 80 proof. Like, we're talking like investing in something better. It it's it does not taste like the same bottle.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

No, it doesn't, it doesn't even taste like the same mash bell, like it it's all in the same, but it's so much deeper, yeah. Like in in in flavor, like it's just a really nice deal flavor.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

There's certain same similar lines in in flavor. Like, I don't it wouldn't be like this is a different brand kind of a thing, but it's so much more that it's almost like you're drinking a completely different product.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

It's like we're going down the same road and then you think it dead ends, and it turns into like a country road, it turns into gravel from pavement, like we're getting a little bit more. It's it's not well traveled, it's a little bumpier. It's it's the road less traveled. It really is, yeah. So when you talk about investment, this is the perfect one.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yeah, it's a good like uh like the the Bitcoin, the Facebook, the whatever, it was good timing. It was is what it was. They he bought into it right before they started to do it.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

This what it's showing their maturity as a brand. They're starting to like amplify what they're what they're putting out. I mean, this is their first real big step up into hey, we're actually something to take notice of.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

And there may be some, you know, when we talk, I said that there wasn't a lot of like financial benefit for the bonding or whatever, like the benefit to to melon, but there could have been some foresight in Clay to be like whiskey's not popular politically, and Mellon's trying to get into politics right now. This might be a good person to have on the inside. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Absolutely, absolutely. I I guarantee that there was connections made that way, put politicians in pockets and things like that. Yeah, you can't say that that wasn't something that was. I mean, hell, there were there was palms were greased in in an anticipation of a seat somewhere like where you can potentially owe me a favor, you know. I mean, people people got by on that.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Like, how many palms are greased over the years with the alcohol? Here's here's a bottle. Here's a good bottle.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Even during prohibition, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I mean, yeah, did you guys ever watch the uh Boardwalk Empire? Yeah, I love that joke.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

I love that that's so they wanted prohibition because they were making money and and uh people in like the government, like they were like, This is great. Something similar happened with the drug trade, you know, in the U.S. back in the what eight seventies, eighties, nineties, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

What's it uh the one the movie with uh Tom Cruise?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

American Made? Yeah, American made. American made is the name of the name.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah, where he's like a pilot or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Yeah, and he's he literally delivers drugs for the U.S. government. I never watched that movie. It's good. I I I want to. Have you seen it? No, I've seen clips of it. Oh, it's great. I watched it. I watched it because I saw clips and said, What the hell? The one you're talking about is American Made, I'll tell you that, because I watched it not that long ago because I saw clips and was like, what is this? And it is very interesting. But he gets approached. Like he was already kind of doing that, and he gets approached by like some guy in the CIA and said, basically, you know, you're gonna pick up drugs and bring them into the US, and we're gonna pay you to do it very handsomely. But also, if you get caught, you're kind of on your own. This never happens, and yeah, and and basically, like at some point, that does come to a point where they're like, This never happened, and you're also now wanted by the government. And he was like, What the F are you talking about? You know what I mean? Like, you can't just do that, and they're like, We just did, you never existed, kind of a thing. So, not to ruin it, but uh that doesn't ruin it for you. But it's very interesting. But uh that happened. I mean, there there was there was from what I heard, conflicts, wars, whatever you want to call it, that were uh and and operations that were funded by the sale of drugs.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

The drug problem is a lot on us. So but we blame other countries because they're the ones that did it, but we put them in power.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

So yeah, but anybody listening, they're like, oh, you know what I mean. But the thing was going back to this time, there were people that legitimately saw whiskey the same as we see drugs, and that's why when prohibition became a thing, the majority of people said it would be no different from us like having heroin and then banning heroin. That's really how they saw it. They didn't see it as like uh you know, not that bad, they saw it as the worst period, the end, because they didn't have the other drugs, like it was like for them, like the worst. And we don't see because now we think of it as like lower than this, that, and the other. But back then it was like the worst thing. So, I mean, when you talk about government people being in bed with like this guy being in bed with old overhaul, trying to be political, and then all prohibition starts. That's why he cut ties because he's like it would be no different than like some political guy now being like, Well, you know, a few years ago, you were in bed with this heroin dealer. You know what I mean? Like this guy was making heroin and selling it, like you were in bed. Like that would not go well with that guy.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

And I'll bet we can find similar things in the tobacco world. Oh, absolutely. And and and when tobacco kind of turned in favor, any of these vices like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

They're thinking about like there was a turn in this, right? Turn in that and the the that whiskey world, that that drug world. There's a big turn between AD proof and bonded or anything below bonded.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Well, if you're anti, uh yeah, if you're anti-booze, somebody's like, This is higher proof, they're like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 34:48

You know, it's not even the higher proof, it's the the flavor, like the the the integrity. I mean, uh it's the nine-day difference.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

There's a reason that bonded matters so much to us still today.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

I don't think we've ever done a series where we've gone from non-bonded to bonded within the same brand. Yeah, and this is huge.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Like, and like uh the only thing that would have made this closer is if we would have gotten the red cap that was a four-year, yeah, because if we would have had the four-year 80-proof, and then this one being four years to this bonded. But outside of that, well, these are both black black caps, but we're talking oh, so three years, so three year to four.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I get what you're saying, yeah, and then we're talking an extra year and 20 proof. It would have been more legit.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yeah, that's the only thing that would have made it like a little bit closer, but we're still pretty dang closer.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

I mean, we're talking like drastic, like jump between the two. Of like I mentioned that Chris and I think of might think of 80 proof of like watery or like the mio or me lops, whatever you call them, right? So, like just a little bit of flavoring, that's what you get. This is like I'm eating like rye bread. I I have like a hearty rye sandwich, like uh yeah, pumpernickel rye, like almost like a ruben. I'm having a reuben sandwich. I can taste the rye, that's this, and I love it.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Yeah, a lot more Pennsylvania rye, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

That's what I would expect.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah, I mean, I think that this really out of and all out of all the things we're gonna try from this lineup. I mean, I really think we're kind of on the quintessential old overhaul flavor.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

So we're not on the hill, we're on the quintessential, but we're not on the tip topic. Not saying it's the best.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

I'm just saying if you were to like smack somebody in the face and say old overhold, that they're gonna regurgitate this flavor, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Yeah, and uh whether it is or isn't on the top of the hill, it's definitely the steepest between the 80 and the 100. I would say, I mean, there's the biggest difference between the 80 and the 100. I mean, I don't, and I've had the 114, I've never had the Mongahela, I've never had the 10. I don't know what the proof is on the 10, but you said it was like 90 something, right? 120. Oh, 120, not 90 something. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

We need to quit talking about the 10 because I don't think I don't think we have that to try.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

We do, we do, we do, we do, oh we do. Oh, okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Get excited, people, because I just got real excited. But yeah, but the the biggest difference is gonna be between that 80 and 100. So pipe goes well with it. You you picked a good pipe, I think. Even better than the last one, and the last one was a great pairing. Yeah, I thought the last one was a good pairing. I think this is a better pairing. I think, and I and I think it's a little bit because this is more basic. I think that and I think that just it adds to what this is because this is basic. Wait, what which is basic? The pipe, the pipe, the pipe is a little bit more basic. I thought this one was a little bit more creamier. It is creamier, but it's it doesn't have the weird thing in it. Like the the last one had that deer tongue, it had its own thing going on. But you know what?

SPEAKER_02 37:43

The last time it needed that because the 80 proof was lacking. This time it's the other way around. But I will say, first, like we keep kind of talking this up, and at the time it was more sophisticated. But in today's terms, for me, this pairing, this pipe and this this whiskey, dude. This is a front porch rocking chair setup. Like, this is really like for me, like perfect.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

So we're getting into we stepped out of the the door, right? Out of the screen porch door. We're sitting in the the chair, we're rocking.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

It's a chill in the air, and we're sitting, we're rocking on a on a rocking chair on the front porch.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Not quite yet. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Yeah, but you're starting to see pumpkins around, and and the leaves are maybe starting to fall a little bit. Yeah, they're definitely they're they're they're not changing colors, they are the colors. Oh, so we're not a few leaves.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

We're starting to see all the leaves kind of.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Oh, yeah, it's it's it's getting to be fall, yeah. And um, I just think that that's a great pairing for for front porch sitting.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

I'm excited for the next one to see where we're at in that state. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Next one uh up to the 114. Keep listening. Awesome. See y'all then. Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspumblet.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.