Muckedy Muck and Sutliff Eastfarthing!

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Tippity Tip. I don't think more's coming out of that. Muckety muck. Alright, yeah. For those just listening, we finished off a bottle of muckity muck. Um brand new open. No, it wasn't just open today. No, this is actually, was it Christmas or was it Thanksgiving? Christmas. Christmas. So we had Christmas here. I don't know. We typically do. You typically do.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

This was those two Christmases ago. Yeah, this is the last Christmas was at Bob Nurse.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

And Mary was actually the one that helped start the tradition of us opening something new for Christmas because she was like, go find something. Like get out of the house. And so we went to Kroger and found this on the shelf, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:07

And me and you both went. Yeah. And it was, was it Christmas Day? I'm trying to remember. I don't remember either. And we picked it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, because they had muckity muck. I remember they had muckety muck and then they had something from Augusta. It might have been. There was like two or three hundred dollars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Which we didn't do last year. We should do it again this year, where we actually go to the store on the day and get something.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

And we found this guy and we're like done. So Chris and I both love scotch. This is muckity muck, orphan barrel, single grain scotch that's 24 years old from a distillery that is no longer around.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

It's the orphan barrel.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yes. They released a 25 and 26 after this, but this is the first one they ever released.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

The orphan barrel stuff is they find things that are no longer made. They're kind of orphans in in lack of a better term. And then they bottle it and send it out, and whatever's left is what's left and what when it's gone. It's gone. It's gone. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

And this is from uh Port Dundas distillery, which is a uh a Scotch distillery that lasted uh a hundred years from 1810 to 2010.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

I don't know why the pig. It's got a pig on the front with uh top hat and cane and I mean the pick is in the muckety muck.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yeah, is in the okay in the muck. I you know what? Never never mucking the muck. I thought there was a story behind that at one point. I can't think of now what it was, but it's very Scottish. He's got the Scottish kilt kind of scarf thing going on, and we're gonna smoke with it.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

We are that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

We're gonna we're gonna drink and smoke, why not? Like because one goes with the other, right? And what we're gonna smoke is something that I think some of the people in the club picked up recently. Something I've had before, but I haven't had it in a long time. This is an old tin of it. East Farthing. So I don't know if you guys have opened those yet, but I I think you bought some, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Uh, I don't think I bought East Farthing. That's one of the um Sutlift. Set lift ones. I did not buy East Farthing, I bought a couple other ones, but I think Herm didn't.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Because I was recommending it East Farthing, named after obviously Lord of the Rings. If you didn't know that, now you do. Pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Sorry, every time you say East Farling, all I can think of is Chris Farley. Farley. That is the complete opposite of Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

You know what though? I really wish Chris Farley was still around to do a Beverly Hills cop version of like a of like a Lord of the Rings sort of deal, or like Wagons East. Wagons East, it wagons west, wagons west, yeah, yeah. And do like a uh a a uh parody of Lord of the Rings with Chris Farley would be pretty pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

An impression of Chris Farley.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Like I am. This is cool because the name, but also it's kind of it's got it's its own thing. I've tried other things similar to this, but nothing like this. I I've always said this is one of the best things Sutliff puts out. They're not a company anymore, so get it while you can, kind of a thing. But it's mature bread virginia, stoved burly, which are you're already like, wow, of course Chris likes this. You know what I mean? Burley and Virginia's? Oh, how about that? But then it's got aged latichea. It says with a hint of sweetness, but the hint is kind of caramel and vanilla.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Interesting, right? So it's a light aromatic with some quality leaf. So it should be pretty enjoyable. And I think it'll go fine with this really refined mucky muck. But this one does have, if I remember right, this has got probably seven or eight years of age on it. Uh, I had at one point I had like 10 tens of this. This is the last one. I'm excited to smell it. Yeah. Now I will remind Steve for smoking this that Salt Liff comes wet. But it is uh, and they are aromatic. When they when they say they add a touch of sweetness, it's like a it's like a 110%.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

This ironically, so we've I don't know if we've talked about the orphan barrel series or not on the podcast. I don't think we ever have. Yeah. What do you know about it? This was uh so one thing about the orphan barrel series after I smelled it. I smell that after you.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

I can uh I can tell you that based on uh the research I've done, that uh there there's there's there's some controversy around this this brand. There's a lot of controversy.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

No, the orphan barrel, orphan barrel, the the brand orphan barrel. So if I remember right, Muckney Muck was so Orphan Barrel is owned by Diaggio, and it's an American thing. It did not stretch past American whiskey until this bottle. I believe this was the first Scotch series that they ever did. Yep, and they have a couple more now, but this is the first one, which is also interesting when you think about who Diaggio owns, because Johnny Walker is owned by Diaggio. Johnny Walker has done several Johnny Walker blues, like limited edition ones that are port Dundas? Dundas? Uh Dundas, yeah. They've done several that include scotch barrels from that distillery. So it's Johnny Walker Blue Ghost, is what it's called, and they're ghosted distilleries essentially. So ones that are trying that one time? No, I could have got my hands on her for 500 bucks and I don't want to spend 500 bucks. Oh, we tried that one. I don't blame you. I don't want to spend 500. That was a lot of money, but I'll probably never see that bottle of that. We saw it, yeah. That was at like a that was in uh it was in Kentucky, and it was a like a random no, so that one was the one that we saw was in uh Florida. That was on 38. Oh, that's yeah, that was on yeah. So this is their first Scotch series that they did. Orphan barrel. So the controversy I think you're talking about, Steve, and I have my same issues with it and quorums with it. When they first started, they legit did orphan barrels. They legit went in and found distilleries that were no longer around making stuff, and they bought up the barrels, and that's what they put in. Like rhetoric was all orphan. Then they realized, oh shit, we're gonna run out of distilleries. At some point, we can't really prolong this life.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

There's only so much orphan barrels out there.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

So after they came out with the scotch one, is is the timeline I can remember seeing bottles come out that weren't truly orphan barrels. They changed it. Well, they changed it from the orphan barrel series was no longer about orphan barrels, it was about the unique, about the forgotten, it was about the unnoticed unused because even Cascade Hollow didn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

The one I I really like it, but that technically is not an orphan barrel. They just had a few barrels they hadn't used, didn't know what to do with, snake tongue or whatever it was, or copper tongue, copper tongue, and technically it's an orphan barrel, but it technically not not in the sense that it used to be like this is never being made up again.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And they did the something scarlet, red scarlet or something that was Indiana Rye from a company in Indiana that had been sitting there for 15 years. And Chris and I saw that and went, No, uh, so MGP. Name please name another Indiana distillery that's been closed down and just had a barrel sitting there for 15 years. That's that's a short amount of time for an orphan, yeah. Right. So that's when I went fine, but like you can. You can't call it an orphan barrel. You can't really call it an orphan barrel at that point.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

It's like saying Walmart, limited Walmart.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Uh you know what I mean? Whatever. So uh when you say rhetoric, was uh where where do they come from? Rhetoric? Yeah. Do you remember? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

We did we did at one point. There was the a lot of the controversy is actually from the beginning. So from where they started, and it was probably with that bottle. So they are warehouse somewhere that they stitzel weller is where they're located. And they're welding, and their look made it seem as if it was from Stitzel Weller when it was not, right? No, they were buying from all the way, it never was, but the way that they they uh showed it made everyone feel like this was a weller that was Stitzel Weller.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Blade and Bow did say very something very similar, and they would, but they always said we were mixing a little bit of what's left of Stitzel Weller into uh something new, and they were, but that very quickly ran out. And they were only mixing like I mean, you could throw an ounce of Stitzel Weller into a barrel and be like, it's got Stitzel Weller in it, you know what I mean? Like, and it's good, don't get me wrong, blade and bow is great, but is it well, is it 50% Weller? No, now it's nothing Weller because they don't have anything left, and there's only so much of that stuff around.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

I feel like in the whiskey community, it's always better to just be honest.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Yeah, it is. People want transparency, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

100% research, and we're gonna be looking exactly and Diageo is very shady in that. That's that has been my biggest beef with Diageo. Now I do like their scotch, so they own Johnny Walker, they own Log of Lynn, they own like the really always relied more on the marketing team. Yes, and for them, but for those, it's really hard to hide what's going on in Scotland because Scotland doesn't really care if it's blended as long as you say it's a blended scotch, like they're not gonna be that big of a deal where it came from. They just want something that's good and they can put out quality there. Here in America, we want transparency, we want you to tell us where this came from. Because if you're claiming this is an orphan barrel, if you're claiming this is no longer around, I want to know where from. Like, I'm just curious. Like, where did this come from? If it's if you're saying this is done, I want to know why. I want to know where from. I don't want you to say this is rare, therefore it's an orphan barrel. This is gonna sound mean. Orphans aren't rare. I mean, yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Tell that to Oliver Twist.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

No, seriously. Please, uh, may I have some more?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

So if you have a story of an orphan doing something rare or being a rare person and the in that sense, that for me makes sense. Like David Copperfield. Yeah, but if you just say that, like, oh, being an orphan is rare. I I don't mean to be mean, but it's a last barrel doesn't mean it's good.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

It's just you know, yeah. Well, so here's a question: what's the price point? Oh, oh, sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Did I I jump in the rub as Shakespeare would say as old old Billy Shakespeare would say, so orphan barrels, I haven't seen it?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Orphan barrel under a hundred bucks.

unknown 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Oh, uh, you've seen more around the 200 range. They are pricey bottles. When we bought the when we bought this bottle, it was oh well. I think it was two. It was, and uh, that's MSRP because it's Ohio. Yep, it was behind the counter and then behind the counter. Yeah, so orphan barrels are an expensive brand. Unless you can get rhetoric 24 for 120 bucks, and you don't do it because the guy says it's like sucking on wood and you believe in. Who did that? That sounds so weird. Yeah, what a loser. What an idiot. What an idiot. The meatloaf.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Meatloaf. I never know what she's doing. What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing back there. Call back to wedding. Non-chuck you. What a what a what an idiot. Funerals, man. You know, I'm just cleaning up. You can tell we're all midnight. Life's natural aphrodisiac. Death. Nothing turns people on more than death. Or muckity muck. Oh, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yes. So, yeah, lots of lots of questions on their legitimacy and what is actually in these bottles. At the beginning, there was like no information, and which is why people just guessed and they guessed wrong, and then they felt bad about it. Now they do give you at least something. How much truth is in it is still to be debated.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

It was kind of ignorance is bliss, and then now, like, it's just not.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

The bliss is gone. The bliss is gone.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Just ignorance. People, yeah. But this bottle we know is scotch, and it's from uh Port Dundas, which was once the largest distillery in Scotland in the late 1800s.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

You know what's interesting? Anytime we talk about scotch, it's always like this was the best, or this was the largest, or this was the oldest. It's never like this is mediocre.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

This is the oldest.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Yeah, it's just no, it's just crazy. It's always the somethingest, you know, it's always the something est when it comes to scotch. For example, that makes a lot like all the scotch in the world, right? Like it's interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Well, and part of the reason though is because they um mass produce and then they sell and blend and mix and match. So like they became the biggest because they bought the next two biggest, and then now they're the biggest. So yeah, they they bought um Dundas Hill, which I thought was interesting. This is Port Dundas, and they bought Dundas Hill, which was the fact that they were both huge is kind of crazy, exactly. Right, they're next to each other. But they that company joined in 1902, and they were the largest pot still distillery in Scotland. Pot still in Scotland, Scotland, who would have thought?

SPEAKER_03 14:29

No, right? Tell those Irish people to go across the river. I didn't even think that was a thing. Yeah, I didn't either. That's more of an Irish thing, it is.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, the last a couple series ago, maybe we talked about the lowland people. So Port Dundas was lowland, and then we had hill countries, so Dundas Hill. So is the pot still like the the hill country folk? Would it be the country?

SPEAKER_03 14:51

It's like the it's like the moonshiners in America, yeah. Maybe it'd be like the uh north like like like regular people partnering with like the hill folk.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

That wat lot. Give me some of that whatlatin. And uh and to have more biggest added to it to have our biggest. You know what's terrifying to me?

SPEAKER_03 15:08

The idea of a moonshine/slash hill person version of a Scottish person.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

That is terrifying.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Good lord. Like Scottish people in general, okay, but like then you want to talk about so like if a Scottish person thinks this guy's kind of out there, like I don't know if I can, you know what I mean? Like, that's that's something hard to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

That's where the name of like Glenn the Destroyer. Yeah, yeah. Like that, that's the hill, the Scottish hill. It's your Highlander, yeah. It's the Highlander.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

It's William Wallace.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Being like, yeah, okay, this guy's nuts. They had the biggest chimney in the world, in the world, at one point. It was 138 meters, so 138 yards. How many, how many? What yeah, how what's a meter?

SPEAKER_03 15:52

About a yard, it's like a yeah, like a few inches off. In a yard is like a yardstick, it's like six feet, six three feet, three feet. Yeah, yeah. It's like what's a quarter and a half football fields. Yeah, that's a big chimney, yeah. Right? But in an area where you got Stonehenge, that kind of makes sense. I mean, you can't even complain those rocks pretty much whatever they weren't, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

But Chris just said like everyone is the greatest or the biggest or the largest in Scotland. Scotland has so much pride they're like, we weren't the best distillery, we had the biggest chimney, we had the biggest chimney, we had the biggest area that small, that biggest chimney in the world, in the world, and that's okay for a few years.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Uh and they had that's not even the cradle of civilization, right? That's not that's not like Roman, you know what I mean? Like, you think the Romans would have the biggest chimney, they probably invented it. No, the Scots. We're gonna make the biggest chimney, laddies.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

I mean, I'm pretty sure they were killed for a reason. That's because like nothing could contain the manhood.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

Big balls and big chimneys. I'm just saying, that's what we got.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

We got big everything.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

We've got the lochness. I didn't get a full count, but I know at that time they had at least 17 pot stills and three coffee stills. Or kofi. Kofi, kofi stills.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

I know what you're talking about. That's not coffee, though. No, they're there, it's a special type of still. Like Japanese, there's some Japanese whiskies that use the the kofi or coffee still. But it's not coffee.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

No, not coffee. Me and Micah got it too much. It looks it's it looks kind of like coffee a lot. Like, wait a minute, Scottish coffee to sign me up. I know, I'm in. I'm wearing a kill doll.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

But listen, I've had Scottish coffee and it is not good. It's like grog. No, well, it's not that, but the it's uh everything's like an Americano if you want to like a coffee.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

They don't have espresso, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

They consider American coffee like weak.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

But see, this is my coffee is I take the uh double espresso and I make four of those in the morning. Oh, there you go. Put that in a thermos, and I'm off I'm I'm on my way to go to work.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah, you're on your way to a lot of things too.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

To the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yeah, hey, you tell me an easier way to get that morning dump out. Nature's laxative. And uh 1997 is when they were bought by Diaggio. So they were bought by Diaggio and then they closed it. Diaggio closed it? Yeah, Diaggio closed it.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Can you imagine being that proud, that small, biggest chimney? Then some brand called Diageo buys your Scottish freaking and then shuts you down.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Scotch distillery injury. The reason they shut them down was to concentrate on a different Scotch. Oh my gosh. The uh uh Cameron Bridge distillery is apparently their their main place that they wanted to keep all their stuff to be embarrassing, so they shut this one down to give to them. Here's the bone I have to pick with this. Yeah, and that doesn't that hurt because everybody's everybody's got their price.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

I mean, it isn't the biggest bone I have to pick with this is this this is the only distillery that I know of out of Scotland that has done a single grain whiskey. That's not common within Scotland. A single grain is different from single malt. And it it wasn't a very common way of doing whiskey. So you're taking a large distillery, a massive distillery, taking something that they have done that's unique, and obviously, whatever it was, people were like, hey, this is different from the other stuff you do, the other scotch. I like both, let's buy both, and then you say, I'm gonna focus on this other one and kill this guy. Not only I think this tastes great, it's very different for Scotch. And that's also what kills me, is you're like, and what American thing to do? Yeah of like, hey, we could focus on something else, so we're gonna nix you. Don't really care how special you were.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Is that American or is that Italian? I think it's capitalist.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

100% exploitative is what it is. Exploited it.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

They were like, you know, you guys need protection. And they the Scottish people were like, well, you could just buy the whole kit and caboodle, you know what I mean? And the Italians were like, yeah. Steve's what's Steve's reaction? I'm trying to figure this out. He's like, I don't want to talk about the mafia. We want cannoli and the governing power over every distillery in Steve.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Absolutely. Let's not mention the Illuminati right now.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, Illuminati. What? We're not gonna line up anything. Steve's got his face in tattoo, he's hiding it.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

He almost like shot that over his nose right now.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Yeah, don't talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Is it Franklin? Yeah, they were onto us. I know, they're onto us okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Uh podcast over. We've been shut down immediately. He's gonna hop on a horse after this. The brain initial comic.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

Steve, we're here for the ring. Shit, they found me.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

But I'm curious about Steve's thoughts because his face was interesting. But it it bugs me that Diaggio does this. No, so they they buy out a really good distillery, something that's good, shuts it down, then years later, they start up the orphan barrel series that's not really transparent. But this company, so their stuff, the product from Port Dundas, isn't unique to this bottle. They've been putting it into special releases from Johnny Walker or other products, but they're special and they charge out the wazoo for it. Yeah, that's that is what frustrates me. Of like you shut something down that was good, orphaned because of you, yeah, and you hold on to exactly like you're the one that walked away, and you went out for milk, and this is where we're at.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Like you abandon them, they did good, and now you they're like the famous kid that you're like, actually, I'm your dad.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

It's like the water boy when he comes back and he's like, Oh, yeah, I'm your daddy. You remember that? Bobby Boucher. He's like, I'm your daddy.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

I could be like Tiger Woods and his daddy. Remember that movie? That's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

And that children is why you don't do crap.

unknown 22:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

It would be just like Bob like Tiger Woods and his daddy.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

So did anybody uh answer the question as to the price point? No, it's about 200. It's about 200. It's expensive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

It's expansive. Did you guys split this cost? No, it was a gift. No, I it was a special event.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

It was a special.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

I can't remember what happened with that.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

It was just a special. Did Mary pay for it? Yeah, it was a special. That was the start of it. I can't remember. Yeah. I think that it might be might have been her first year of doing a special bottle for me for Christmas. And that's what this was.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Yeah. And and and and it's mostly me. Let's be honest. What do you mean? Mary, his wife.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Oh, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

It's easier for me to get it. It's even easier for me to get it than Nick. And I mean, and Nick gets a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm the favorite. Wait. What? Yes. Of who? Of the family. So Mary is a big thing. Nick wants a bottle. If Nick wants a bottle, Mary would be like, eh, okay. Okay. Like I can't. Because you know, like you're my husband and I love you, right? But if I want a bottle, she'd be like, okay, am I wrong? Or am I not?

SPEAKER_01 23:13

It's kind of ironic. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Because Mary is the female version of myself. Yes, a thousand percent. If I want a bottle, she'd be like, oh yeah, that's like me wanting a bottle. Yeah, you can have it. Yeah. He doesn't ask for much. I'm spoiled. I'm very spoiled. I'm even more spoiled than Nick is. Being spoiled is not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. And I, if you use it to your advantage, it's called capitalism.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

We've just being the honesty. I'm just the age of this. Yes. So I remember Bob trying this. Both Chris and I tried it, and we went, Wow, this is this is pretty good. And I remember Bob trying it going, Yeah, it's all right.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Well, he added ice to it.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, he was like, Yeah, it's all right.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Maybe soda. Ice is okay. Soda. No. I I I I want to say there was soda, right? Yes. And like always some kind of help. Not for not for this. That doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

It opens it up in his mind, I guess. But I saw Steve's reaction. I thought of that. Was your reaction a good reaction? A what is happening reaction?

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Good, but surprised because it I felt like it was maybe a little bit above its proof. I was looking at the proof of it because I was like, oh, that kind of hit a little bit. A lot for a scotch. It is 90 proof, so it is it is a little bit hotter than a scotch normally is, especially at that age, right? Yeah, yeah. But it was just kind of a blast of flavor, and so I was just trying to kind of look at it and figure it out. A blast of flavor. A blast of flavor. It is good. I don't know that's 200 good. We said the same exactly. But it is good.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

I think the justification for me at that time was this is the only one that they're doing for muckiny muck. Yeah, at $200, 24 years, the only one they're ever gonna release. That to me, fine. Then the next year they released muckinymuk 25. That's okay and then the following year it was 26.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Becomes like it becomes less special when you see iterations. Yeah, one, two, and Nick, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I remember when we opened this and started drinking it, we were like, this is really good, but it's going down a little too quickly for a $200 bottle. I think we had half the bottles to do that. We actually went on to something else. Because I was like, which we don't we don't mind drinking something all the way, but when it's that easy, you're like, is it that good? You know what I mean? Like, or or is it just for for that much money? You're like, it shouldn't be that easy. It doesn't have much of a finish to it. Exactly. It you can keep drinking it, it's kind of like pizza rolls. You need the 250 count, possibly like 500, because you are gonna keep popping those bad boys in your mouth. Like, and you're gonna eat way more than if this was a pizza, you'd be done by now. But I'm gonna keep eating them because they're little bite-sized rolls, comes a problem very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

I'm gonna say a flavor that I'm tasting that I don't think you're tasting because you don't like it. Uh, and I don't like it either. And I so I don't know if it's because of this, but cinnamon.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Is that what you're I'm I think he was gonna say cinnamon? So I do get a bit, I do get a bit of an all-spice.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That that would be fair. Not like cinnamon, like like a hot, like like the spice cinnamon. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

And I and I will say why I agree with that because, and I was gonna get to this, and we had it on Christmas, but this is the perfect, you know, after Thanksgiving, Christmas season bottle, which for me, the day after Thanksgiving, the tree's up, right? I'm in the Christmas spirit day after Thanksgiving. For me, that's what it is. And then when Christmas, like December 26th, tree's done, I'm done. I'm done. But I'm cool with like the day after Thanksgiving all the way up to because it doesn't have to be December, day after Thanksgiving, all the way up to Christmas Day. I'm Christmas, all about it. And for me, we have this on we had this on Christmas, which was perfect. This could even be the day after Thanksgiving and any time leading up. And this pipe tobacco as well goes along with that same theme because you got a little little bit of latiquia, you got some of the American burlies in the Virginias, but that caramel vanilla for me is a and and with this, I don't think because I don't think the pipe tobacco has, I think it misses it, misses that spice. Maybe the Parik would add that spice, it just doesn't have it. But this scotch has a little bit of that all spice, what you're talking about, what you said with cinnamon. I don't get cinnamon because it's not red hot. I can agree with that. And when you combine the two, this is the Christmas season pairing, which I think is a good thing for after Thanksgiving. This is the after Thanksgiving pairing, and all the way up. This can go all the way up until Christmas, I think, in my opinion. After that, we got to look at other options. But for a scotch, it's got some of that I hate to say rye aspects, but it's got some of those baking spices going on. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

It's got that spice, those baking spices, but it's also like a fruity baking. Like I get more of like a sweet fruity.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

It's sweet, it's sweeter spices. It's dude, I'm telling you, it's the pies and the cakes and the and the cookies. This is Christmas all day. This is Santa Claus is maybe packed on a few extra pounds, right? And then after Christmas, he's gonna have to go on a diet. This is it, man. This is the nutmeg and the eggnog. This is the and I think it goes super well with caramel, the caramel sugar, cookie kind of thing. It's good, but for you don't get that typically with a scotch.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Agreed, yeah. You don't get the baking spices kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Scotch I would have before Thanksgiving. It's just not. I don't think this is a good scotch for any other time but that Christmas season.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Coffee stills. Are those are those column or column stills? Yeah, pots. They're like a column type. So single malts is actually made the the differentiate between the two because uh like uh barley is still a grain, right? So single malts are made in pot stills, single grain can be made in column stills. So this is one that was made in a column still versus the pot still.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Interesting. So wait, that means all scotches or most scotches are pot still. I was just about to say that that means more scotches are made in a pot still, which makes sense because pot stills are old world distill distilling, right? I mean, column stills are like 21st century type stuff, you know what I mean? Like it's new age compared to like pot stills. I mean, even moonshine is pot still, you know what I mean? Basically, like so it kind of makes sense that that would be the new uh age version, and then this was column still, you'd say this would have been column because it's single grain, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

So again, like not as orphan, not as old, not as yeah, the orphan idea is it's no longer around, but uh uh we've had so we've had several different scotches, yeah. We've had blended to single malt. This is single grain. This is you think that's what's imparting that spice. I think this is imparting the fruity spice that you're not getting with the other ones. Is because you I mean, Port Dundas, thinking of where Diageo has most of their stuff, I'm guessing still around Highland is my guess for port for Port Dundas. So Highland is isn't gonna be as light as what this is. Like, this is almost like a spaceside. I think it was a space side now. Port Dundas?

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think it was a spaceside.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

It's it's but it's a spicy for space side, it's not as friendly, it's not as friendly. And you know what? Actually, that's a good question for Micah, because this is not as friendly of a Scotch, even though it's refined, it's but it's not as friendly. What do you think? Being uh, you know, still kind of like not a huge Scotch-esque kind of guy.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, so I was actually surprised to hear the price point on this, and the reason why is because I like I actually enjoyed the you know, Isle of Sky, which I know is comparable, but at the same time, it also has way more flavor to me not being a Scotch person. And also I I enjoyed the the Glen Alanke more than this particular one. Um, not that it's bad, it's definitely not, but it's just more, I don't know, growing into more of the Scotch whiskey flavors. Like I would prefer the other ones over this one, personally.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Personally, yeah, no, I get that totally because those were more like Scotch plus. This is more like what Scotch is with a bit of a twist because it's it does have a bit of a ride twist. But if you're already not a Scotch guy, you're adding an element that kind of is more along those lines, you know what I mean? It doesn't have any of the friendly plus extra stuff.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

It also makes me grateful that I have yet to ever pull the trigger on that Johnny Walker Blue Ghost that has the port dundas in it because this is good. Yeah, this was even better, even greater when I thought this was the the one and only, they were done. That for me was worth the price tag.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Now that there's more and more and more, I'm like you can't you can't get over mentally the idea of so uh you know, the last episode, me and Steve tried that Stonehenge Flake. If I told you that that was available, that would be such a good pipe tobacco. Now that I told you it's not, it's even better in our mind, right? Because you cannot get it. So you can't discount that kind of a thing. But I think going to what Micah's saying, the way to describe it is for the for a non-scotch guy, the price of this is too much. For a Scotch person, the price is understandable because you like those scotch flavors, period, the end, right? And then you appreciate the other things about it. But if you're like a in into scotch and you want to get scotch, but you need different things to kind of make it alluring, then you try something like this, which is kind of basic scotch, maybe with a little bit of a twist, but more basic scotch. You see the price on it, you're like, Well, why would I pay that when I can pay less or the same for something with these flavors? And I think that that's something interesting to think about because there are very scotch forward-minded people that would see this and say it's worth the price. But then there's people that are into scotch or starting to get into scotch, like Micah, that would try more of a more traditional, you know, air quotes traditional scotch like this one, and be like, why is that so expensive?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

So I look at that and I go, I would agree. That was my fear with the 25 year of like, oh, it's it's it's so old, but the price tag is also high. So, like, why does that make sense? Does it make sense? I get that aspect and I get that thought process. I also just think of my frustration that you hinted on, Steve, about people having an issue with the orphan barrel name. With the idea being we talked about unicorn bottles. This would fit the popular belief that it's a unicorn bottle because it says orphan barrel, it's harder to get. It comes out once a year, they're never the same. I'm gonna pay X amount of price, it's gonna be higher than everyone else, but I know I have it, someone else is not gonna be able to get it. At the same time, this is not a unicorn bottle.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

It's lies because when we bought when we bought this, we were very excited for what I was then it wasn't. Yes, they saw a money, they saw a gold mine and said it's like if you're Lady Justice, if you're blind, like would that be appreciative? Yeah, you would appreciate it, but then but knowing what you know after the fact, like this wasn't what it's a all of a sudden you don't appreciate it, you know what I mean? It would be like seeing the declaration of independence and then being like, wow, but then somebody being like, Well, that is is a replica, the other ones put away. You're like, was it that cool? Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't that cool, anymore. Yeah, it wasn't that cool. It's a picture of it now. Yeah, but if you didn't know, ignorance is bliss, right? You're like, that was the coolest thing ever.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

It's the same idea of like a small business putting up the first dollar they ever made and mounting it and be like, Whoa, that's the first dollar you ever got. And they're like, What is it? Well, no, it's it's a dollar, it just resembles that thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Yeah, it's representing we thought about that on our 10 10th year anniversary and decided to put that in the room. Tony Pacco's. Is that the first bun you ever sold? Yeah, yeah, it is. It sure was, yeah. You ever you ever seen the buns at Tony Pacco's? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, that's some really buns are pretty cool. They're all yeah, they're probably not even.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, I saw another store have the first two of the exact same one.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah. So uh Nick, one thing you said was the resemblance to um uh rye whiskeys. So I will say I am not a 100% rye guy either. So if there is bias or whatever that plays into that, then that is where I lie personally. So others, and I know Chris, you like Rise quite a bit. And I, you know, actually probably everybody in this room except me. Steve's warming up to it. I'm in between. Steve's getting there, it's fine, but yeah, our club barrel pick was amazing from Journeyman, but for the most part, like the so and and okay, so my entrance into Rise as an example was Sazerac. I can't stand this stuff. Yeah, I will I I just Sazerek Rye, which is a barely a ride, yeah. Yeah, I I I never will ever drink it and stuff like that. Every other rye that I've had, so maybe I am a rye person, but I'm picky rye person. So I don't know if that plays into like my like bias or whatever you want to call it for this particular one, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Uh I looked it up, it's lowland is the region for this. And for me, yeah, I don't think it's worth the price. But also, uh, the orphan barrel thing. I was over the summer, I went to a distillery called Casey Jones down in uh Don, Kentucky, and uh we either have or will have their bottle on the podcast, not sure which, but um while there they had on the wall a section of bottles and they called it their orphan section, and it was bottles from barrels that were no more, so the barrels are finished off. They they they blended, did whatever, sold them out, whatever. These are the only ones that are left, and they all they had the proof point and stuff on them. It's like we could say this one is you know uh 103.8, and there's three bottles left, and when they're gone, they're gone. That barrel is dead, and that is a that is our orphan section, and you could buy those. That was really cool. I had never really seen that before, but to me, that would be like the true interpretation of what an orphan barrel is.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

This is the end. I've been meaning to bring this up, and that's something we'll have to talk about when we do that. Casey Jones. Do you know there's a Casey Jones pipe tobacco?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Well, really, we'll have to. Do you have it?

SPEAKER_03 38:05

I do not, but that is something that maybe sale? Yes, yes, that maybe that is something that we can uh debut when we debut Casey Jones. Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

That is very that's interesting. I don't think whether they're facing the same guy or not. We'll have to figure it out. So things to think about. Yeah, things to think about.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

I will say there have been two bottles that we've killed on this podcast to very minute uh expense in my mind, but expensive fun for they they've been in the around for a while. I'm not disappointed that this bottle was killed with you guys because you you bring up an interesting perspective that Chris and I at the time didn't have.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

I don't I don't think we saw this with uh what's the best way to I don't want to say beer goggle eyes, but it was kids, it was kids opening up presents Christmas Day, which is literally what we did with this. Right. We opened it up like like six in the morning while people are opening presents and we started, which if anybody's ever like not heard this yet, we've because we've talked about it. We do this quite often. That's what we do. Christmas Day, the kids are opening presents and and we're there. We open up me and Nick open up a bottle and we start drinking it. It doesn't matter if it's five in the morning, six in the morning. That's what we do on Christmas, and we drink it until we either we're done with it or it's empty, or we we're done with it. Sometimes we're done with it, but sometimes we empty it.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

And sometimes though, I mean, those bottles have like special memories to that. I I keep on the top shelf like, oh, this means so much. It means something, but is it worth that price tag for others? It it it um this is important to us.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

I will say there's a bit of an emotional attachment to it, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:46

But there's there's this idea that I was talking with uh someone recently about the the intent to drink to hang out or the intent to drink to refill, yeah. And the idea of refill replenish. So I drink a bottle, I have to replenish that bottle in my collection, versus I'm intending to drink with a group of people and we're gonna have a conversation, we're gonna talk about it. I'm never gonna refill that bottle. That's fine, but there's meaning behind it, there's a memory associated with that.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

The meaning or the the memory is associated with that bottle, the empty bottle that's in front of you, not the brand. Not not if you bought another one, it wouldn't have the same story behind it.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Which is a telling story, but which is a very Scotland, more Ireland thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah, which I think fits with that I this the Scotland idea of like we open a bottle, we finish a bottle. Granted, we did not open this one to memories we make.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

Yeah, it's about the memories we make.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yep, and understanding what others like or enjoy the conversation around that.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

So this was your Christmas bottle, and we ended it talking about it. And and it's now the bottle has the the opening story and the closing story. And the closing story behind it. So fancy. I think it went well with the tobacco. What do you think, Steve? I agree. It did go well with the tobacco. Like you said, I think the caramel vanilla is missing something, and the scotch kind of added to it, and I thought that it was a good, a good combination for the two because of that.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

It's an aromatic that I would not normally enjoy, although the scotch uh filled in the gaps. Exactly. With with the two, it's great. Otherwise, I've had this before and it's felt it's fallen short, but not tonight. I think I think it's good. I think it's in and uh as far as aromatics go, especially for that season, that's probably really the season that you want to get into aromatics. Right. Late fall or early Christmas. This was great. It's good pairing. Good pairing. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Till next time.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Till next time.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychaserspumba.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.