Little Book Chapter 1!

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Steve is not with us again.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Steve's taking he's he's taking the tax tax break.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

He's taking taxes very seriously. I I wish I could take them as serious as what he does.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yes. Tax time, taxes, taxes, taxes. Gotta have all these taxes. Like that Robin Hood cartoon.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

The taxes for Prince John. And replace of Steve, we have a guest on. First time. First time guest. First time guest, longtime listener.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Yeah, yeah. It's uh it's actually kind of cool to get on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Herm is uh is on the podcast today, part of the club. Now part of the podcast. Now part of the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

I mean, I mean I'm gratiating myself with you guys here. It's been it's been nice. Uh yeah, I've been a listener for a little while and uh love the podcast. And so I got involved with the club and now I get to be on on the podcast and drink some whiskey with you guys, which is fun. Perks of being part of the club.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, we uh we're starting a new series today, little books. Very exciting series. Very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Little book series, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

These are my favorite bottles, you could say. We're doing one through four with Herm, and then we're gonna finish up the series with four through eight with another guest later on. So should be fun. All of the little books are the exact same, so I don't know why we're doing a series on them. Are they the exact same? They're not the exact same at all. No, I don't think they are though. They're not. Uh, these are very different from bookers that most people probably say, oh, they're they're very similar, very close. These are all very different, drastically different from each other.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Actual different recipes because bookers it follows the same recipe, but right, but they don't vary drastically like these would.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

They don't vary as drastically. They try to pull from the same sections every time for bookers. Little book is not the same. Little book is a blend. So this is Freddie No Jr. Uh, this is his claim to fame. What I've learned within the Beam family is each master or like each head distiller has their own lineup that they kind of started or took as theirs, or um, they've taken on under their wing, so to speak. So Little Book is from Freddie No Jr. That actually his grandpa was Booker No, and called him Little Book. That was his nickname for him. So he was like, um, this is my thing. I'm gonna call it Little Book, kind of after after that, a little piece of family history and the meaning behind it, what it meant to him. But then he took it a step further and he decided he was gonna blend from product that they have currently, it's product that they that is theirs. But he brought this idea to uh to the family, and they said, you know what, uh, let's see what you can do. You got free reign to everything here that we own. And uh you can kind of do what you want to do, um, depending on how the first one goes. So the first one was released in 2017.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Well, actually, before he started blending, I think he started he worked in the company. He worked like all the different jobs, I guess, through the distillery, which I thought was kind of cool. It was like they basically ask him, like, is this, you know, we have 200 years of generational basically knowledge in this industry. You want to be here. Yeah, do you want is this what you want to do? And he was like, absolutely yes. I'm like, all right, great, start you at the bottom. And he worked all the different jobs. I don't mean for how long, I don't know, but kind of worked through the company so he knew how all everything worked coming through.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

And then he became before they gave it a shot blender, distiller at doing this, which that I do really appreciate that in a company that takes it so seriously that uh just because you're family doesn't mean you can do this. Yeah, just because you're you know, just because your dad wants to do it, and then you gotta be able to do it, and then once you get to that point, okay, we'll give you a chance. Let's see how you do it this first bottle, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

So I got to hear the story from uh Freddie Noah and Freddie No Jr. If you do a tour like behind the bean, uh behind the scenes kind of beam tour, they'll lead the tour for you and they'll talk about the history. And it's it was funny listening to them because Freddie No Jr. talked about it like, oh, I had to do this. And his dad was like, What was your choice? But you got to understand, like, by the time you were old enough to do this and part of the family, you didn't have to work for anything. Like, we did all the work for you, and like generations before you did this because they enjoyed it, not because it was money making. Like, we weren't even sure if there was going to be money to be had in this business. So we wanted to make sure you weren't just in it for the money. Like, we wanted you to be a part of this because you wanted to be a part of it, not because it's a it was a secure thing for you, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

It's not just the family business. It is the family business, but that's not all it is, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

And so it's it's it was really cool to see that. I I appreciate that a lot out of the Beam uh distiller, like the Beam family, to the extent now where Freddie and O Jr. has this experience and he's got kids of his own. And people have asked, like, hey, is your daughter gonna be the next master distiller, head distiller? And he's like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Ask her, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Like he's like, they're like, Well, do you not want her to? And he's like, I don't care, like it's up to her. Like, she's not even close to being old enough to make this decision. I'm not gonna make it formal.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

I don't think they're as formal as people think for such a major corporation company, whatever, like they're it's very much more like chilled out version of like what any other company would be for that size and that revenue and everything else. I don't think they have like a board of you know people that come and meet and vote.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

I mean, they might have a little bit more than they might now, now that they're much bigger, like now that they're owned by Centauri. Yeah, oh yeah, I guess they they probably have that now, but it's still it's probably still not that super formal, you know. They're they're by far my favorite distillery and company just because of how family-oriented they are, like how unformal they can be. I appreciate that quite a bit.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Well, it helps that they make really good products.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

That too.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Yeah, so I'm just I I would say I'm a I'm a beam fanboy as well. Um, you know, try it's like when you start this hobby, it's kind of finding them finding what works for you and what you like, and it's like everyone has their, you know, their kind of distillery that they're like anything that comes out of there, I like it, Heaven Hill or or whoever. And it took me a while to find it, but yeah, it's definitely been Beam for sure. I've never had anything from Beam I didn't like. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Surprising. And they have their own unique taste, which is interesting and like a kind of like a venue of things that have so many different like commonalities, right? To still have your own unique, different taste and something like that. That's really saying so.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

They have tons of different options and different like tiers of their bottles and things like that too, which is nice. So if you want those one-off bottles, like a like a little book, you know, you can you can get those. And if you want your everyday shelfer, those are easy to get too, and they're all really, really good. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah, we talked about that before, like to go from like very, very affordable, like bottom shelf, like very affordable stuff, all the way up to like very high-end hard to get. Yeah, like they do it all, you know what I mean? And they think it's just as important to do the $20 bottle good as it is to do the high-end bottle.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

And I also think it's interesting, I don't think it's as interesting that they do that. I think it's interesting that them and Wild Turkey are kind of the two remaining that do that well. Heaven Hill's always done like we want to provide inexpensive bottles, uh, good bottles at an inexpensive price. That's like their thing. And then you got Beam and you got Wild Turkey that are like, we make basic, we do basic very, very well, and then we do some high-end stuff. But we we're not jumping the gun at these experimental, we're not jumping the gun at what friendly will be. Like, this is what we do. If you know any of the history, then you know that there's a big relationship between Wild Turkey and Beam, like a big friendship between the two. To the point where um Jimmy Russell went to Booker and said, Hey, I've been working on this new product. Like, will you would you be willing to try it? Would you be willing to sample it out? I haven't told anyone else about it. And he he tried it, went, This is really good. Like, well, this tastes very familiar. Like, what is this? This this is really, really good. And he's like, Well, this is just something I've been working on. Like, I'm thinking about putting it out. And he's like, This reminds me of bookers, like this is really good. Like, is this booker? He's like, No, no, no, this is my own stuff. But like, they have they have such a big friendship between the the two families that they they were willing to share new stuff with each other before it even came out to be like, what do you think? What do you think about this? And in fact, when Freddie No Jr. was announced as the new uh distiller, head distiller, they invited like all of these, they sent out invitations for all the big honchos, all the big distilleries of like, hey, we just want to celebrate together. Like, would you come, would you be willing to come and celebrate in this? And uh Jimmy was the only one that came out of all of like the distilleries. They were like, no, that's fine, it's fine. And Jimmy was like the only one that came to like celebrate in this with a different distillery. You talk about like, oh, they have the basic and then they have the good. Like those two families, those two distilleries have really stuck to this is what we do. We do it well, that's it. Like, you know, take it, take it for what you want. Like, that's that's what we do. But then this was something drastically different from Beam when it was introduced. And in fact, this the name got its placed because he was called Little Book. The idea came from him working his way up through the ranks because at one point he got uh he was placed, I don't know for how long or what it was, uh, like you know, it's a certain amount of months, like he had to work in each department.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Billy Madison type scenario. Right. That's exactly what it sounds like. Yeah, it's like two weeks here, two weeks there. You got to do them well before you can take over the company, Billy.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Otherwise, it goes to what's his name. They had him working in the Global Innovation Center, is what they they called this. And essentially what the center was was learning all about blending, blending different products that they had together to form here's Jim Beam, here's Booker's, here's Basil Hayden, here's Knob Creek, like learning this is what we do and this is how we do it. And so he got the opportunity to look at all of the product that they had. And apparently they had or still have barrels of just corn whiskey, rye whiskey, and malt whiskey that were just sitting in there, like that that they just have laying around for possible things to use. And so he got it in his head of, well, that's bourbon. Like all of this blended together, all of this combined is bourbon. Can I blend finished product together to create that flavor? And quickly realized, no, like it doesn't work that well. And so he didn't like the taste of it and thought, well, let's do something else. And that's why he brought Little Book to his dad and was like, look, I tried this out, it didn't work, but I would like to try something new. Like instead of mixing the raw ingredients together that are finished, can we mix blended or blend products together, barrels that are already aged, done to create a product that would come across as either challenging, friendly, exciting, like just different for people. And so at that point, that's where they said, okay, well, yeah, let's let's see what you can do. Create a bottle. The first one, you have unlimited access to everything and see what you can do and see how well it does. And that's where little book chapter one came from, which is four-year-old uncut, unfiltered bourbon in here, 13-year-old uncut, unfiltered corn whiskey, six-year-old uncut, unfiltered 100% malt whiskey, and a six-year-old uncut, unfiltered high rye whiskey.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

So they're all uncircumcised.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yes, they're all uncircumcised. And that's a good amount of malt. Behind this bottle, his idea was so I tried blending corn malt and rye together. Because that's what kind of their mash, their common mash but was, but he blended already finished product together to try to create the flavor of bourbon and thought it didn't hit the mark, it was missing something. So what if I blend in bourbon itself in this, like a small amount of bourbon in it? Will it kind of marry it together to allow that bourbon experience without it being bourbon?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah, I don't get I don't get a lot of the malt flavor necessarily, but it does if I feel like it helps to smooth it over. I think it's really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah, this has a good marriage of flavors going on.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

It's very, very, I mean, there's real smooth. It's got good, it's got good, like a good, it's lasting, I guess you would say. Um, so I think it has great flavor. Uh, it's pairing really, really well with this. I wonder if it was gonna pair really well with the pipe. Yeah, I'm I'm enjoying the the pairing. Yeah, I like I like the tobacco pairing as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

For people listening who care about such things, Herm is also a piper. So that's we're smoking. He's a piper, he's a piper, dude. He's part of the part of the piping community. So we're smoking Solani Silver Flake, which is a really good uh flaked tobacco made from a really good company. Uh it's basically a burly, it's got some other stuff in it as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

It smells like burnt toast, and I don't mean that in a bad way. Like, like when you like just have the the toast pop out of the toaster, you know, kind of that brown smell that that's what it reminds of.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

And I actually like it that way.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

And then paired with this whiskey, it's like it's the sweet to the the savory almost. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

And for a burley, it's pretty, it's real mellow too. It's it's real smooth, real mellow. I think this is this is definitely something you could smoke all day long. Yeah, this is I'm not a huge burly fan. Uh, I I mean I like certain burlies, but certain certain ones are just a little too much for me. Yeah, um, you get too too far into that kind of cigarette-esque smell. I'm not a huge fan of that. Um, but this one is it smells really good. Room notes great, taste, flavors awesome. Yeah, um, but surprisingly, yeah, real, real smooth.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Well, and it being a flake like that, you know, it just slows everything, it slows you down, it slows itself down. It it's it makes the overall experience better, I think, than you know, like a shag cut, which is kind of if you're not careful, it'll go away with you.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

So, another fun part about these uh little books that I enjoy is each one has a different name, kind of like a chapter in a book. Yeah, right. From what I understand, each name of each chapter gets its name after it's made or during the process, sort of like bookers. So, like when they when they pull bookers and it's ready and they blend it, they then taste it and go, This is what it reminds me of. This is the name of it. This is country ham or right, you know. This is you know, my table, like front porch, you know, like uh this is the pigskin. There was one that was pigskin something. Yeah. And in similar aspects, that's what Freddie know junior decided to do with these. Now, this being the first one, you would think, I would think, okay, we're gonna come up with this like crazy name, like crazy fun name. It's called the easy, and the reason that it's like spelled out easy, easy, like that was easy. And the reason why it was called the easy is because to him he was like, Oh, this was easy. Like this was this was not like a cop-out, but like this was this was his first one, right? Yeah, he was like, This was incredibly easy to do once I kind of got something under my belt and learned the kind of the art of blending or started to learn blending. This blend came out very easy, very easy to do.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

You guys were making sure I was ready for this.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Like that was easy, it was easy, yeah. It was almost like that was easy, like the button, you know what I mean? But I do find it interesting that it that uh becomes a thing later on for him, especially on the next chapter that he blends of uh learning. He might have named too soon. Next one's not not easy, speak too soon, yeah. He might have named that one too soon. You said 2017, right? 2017, first one, huh? Which was I'm trying to think of 2017, like what was happening in that time and in that era.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

It's pre-COVID. That's like I want to say it wasn't that long ago, but it feels like it wasn't that long ago.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Like almost 10 years, it was like eight years ago. Eight years ago is when he got this start. By the way, all of them are high proof.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah, I was gonna say uh we we didn't touch on that yet, but it actually isn't drinking super hot or anything like that, but I know it's gonna be high proof, and it's uncut on filters, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

He sticks with um that booker's thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

What is what is it?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

128. It does not doesn't doesn't drink 128.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even peg it for much more than like 105. I mean full, full, full, full flavor, just not hot, if that makes sense at all. Like not there's not of that acetone-iness to it, like it's it's very it's very smooth.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

And if you look at the back of the boxes, so Booker's has the wooden boxes. Little Book has wooden boxes as well, but they're like pitch black. Yeah, they're like pitch black. They still have that plastic front on them, and they they have kind of that tab on the inside to hold the bottle. You could definitely tell that there was a by the box and the name that this was like a trial. Uh, because the box is just a wooden box, there's no tab on the inside, nothing to hold the bottle in. It's got the plastic front on it, but the plastic front literally literally just says little book on it, not chapter, nothing on it. Since then, it's gotten a little upgrade.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Like, we'll let you stick around for a while. You've done pretty good. We're gonna take one of our booker's boxes, we're gonna make it black.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

You're you're not worth the plastic insert.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Right. Not wasting any of this gold labeling on you yet.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

This uh this is a trial. We're really gonna see how it goes. Uh, we're not gonna spend a whole lot of time or money on it. But it's interesting to look at he did this in 2017. It was roughly around when they were deciding, okay, what's next as far as our our head distiller? And of course, we want to keep it within the generations if they want to have it. But you've got this one, and then I'm trying to think of Basil Hayden Toast jumped out around chapter three, maybe. So you've got like a progression of him doing this of like, this is basic. Like, this is just just kind of like I I got an idea of what blending was like. I had this idea of okay, the raw ingredients for bourbon before aging, they all get distilled and mashed, you know, mashed and distilled down, and then we throw it into a barrel, we let it age, that becomes bourbon. What if we take the raw ingredients separate from each other, like Canadian whiskey, and we distill them, age them separate, and then blend it. Can we create a bourbon-esque flavor out of that? Is that what bourbon is?

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Different components and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Right. And I think what what I love about Little Book is not just the generational story that it tells, it's also the whiskey story that it tells. So you look at this and go, bourbon is corn rye, corn wheat, corn something else, and malted barley, you know, mashed together, blended together, age together. It's all one component. But could we find a way to create that flavor without all of them aging together? Like, could we find a way to is that what bourbon is? Is it just that flavor, or is it all of them marrying together?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Is it like the journey of these flavors like and and becoming their final product, like the story of the spirit? Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

And the the challenge that he presents to people. That's what I love is the challenge as well. Like I enjoy being challenged, I enjoy learning, I enjoy going. Could this be something more? Could this be something different? And he presents a challenge to the very beginning of what's your idea and definition of bourbon? Is it just the method and the ingredients, or is the flavor? Like, what what's your idea? When you think of bourbon, what do you think of? You know what I mean? Do most people think of that has to be at least 51% corn, then everything else, then we age it together, and then after four years we can pull it out, and that has to be this way. Yeah, that is bourbon. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Yeah, this is the way it's been, this is the way it's kind of dialed in and been been done for years. And do you think that's interesting? Yeah. You get that. Yeah, I think the, I think for for booker or for a little book, specifically for me, is is it's kind of a tale of innovation if you think about it. It's like, you know, you're taking a new age twist on the tried and true, right? Beams been around forever. It's great. I mean, it's that they make great products, and it's like, well, what well, how can we make it better? Or how can we change it? How can we get stagnant? Yeah, you don't want to have, I mean, it's great to have those, everyone likes their same old, same old, you know, your shelter, your your thing that's always available. You can go to every time you want it. But it's also nice to have that little bit of innovation and that, you know, because that it doesn't take a ton of technology. It doesn't, it just, you know, maybe just one person wanting to, hey, what what can I do if I if I just do this one little thing, you know, and and so you create a new a new product. Um, you're gonna spark some curiosity in that. Um, and I think. Obviously, the marketing is a little better for a little book too. They, you know, they do a nice little story, and you know, the box is the bottle itself is beautiful. Right. Um, you know, the label, little, you know, a little angle on the label. It's got the little wax seal, um, you know, the wax on top, it's very, very um nice presentation. Whereas, you know, you go, you think about Jim Beam, it's like, oh, you get this just simple label and this is you know, this kind of square bottle, and that's Jim Beam. And it's like, well, maybe beam products are they they're different too. Um, and this is it kind of establishes itself as that unique or that kind of premiere product, but also like I said, the marketing behind it is nice, but it's ultimately a story of innovation. It's you bring in a younger, bright mind, new age, new generation, and it's like, how can I make my mark on it? Um, I think he's done a fantastic job with it. Definitely. I mean, I'm I I love all the little book series I've kind of caught on late, unfortunately. But you know, I that's the one bottle. If I see it, it's it's or if I hear about it, I'm gonna go find it. I'm gonna go seek it out and grab it up. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

It's um it's well for one thing, it's nice to know that for a company that's been around for so long, that's so steeped in tradition, that they're not afraid to to to innovate, and they're not stuck in their ways, you know what I mean? You see so many people because they generate, yeah. And they're like, it's kind of like you know, the old timers in church. You get what I'm saying. If you ever grew up in a church that was like old, old, stuck in their ways, like you couldn't even change up the hymns, you know what I mean? Like, how dare you!

SPEAKER_01 23:31

God forbid we throw in a tambourine. You're wearing jeans to church, what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Right, yeah, like new generations. That's just yeah, you know, and I think that nobody likes that. I mean, even traditional people like to see that you're flexible enough to kind of change up the monotony. And so, for one thing, that's what they do. And then, like you said, they really, really harp, and Jim Beam's always done a good job with this. They really harp on the story of the bottle as much as what's in the bottle. And I think that it's very easy to forget that uh drinking bourbon, this whole thing that we do, drinking bourbon versus people that just drink, right? It's just as much about what's in my glass and how it got there as what I'm actually experiencing, right? It's not all just about the flavor, it's about the story of the spirit. And uh Jim Beam has always capitalized on that. They do a good job with it without overdoing it. Without there's some companies that overdo it. It's like you still have to have some good quality product here. You can't just make crap.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

I think I think authenticity is the key.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

And I I also find it interesting that you guys bring up very big bullet points for me as to why a love beam over any other distillery. You talk about innovation, you talk about generation, you talk about this is our family, this is our heritage. You look at Sazerac as a company, and they won't change the recipe. They won't tell you the recipe, they'll change the proof point, they'll change the age, they won't change much past. They're very rigid. Even Heaven Hill. Heaven Hill will change the proof point. We're gonna put out a barrel proof. That that's kind of the max point of our change. We don't want to change anything else. And you also look at wild turkey and they're like, this is our stuff. Like, this is what we do, we do it well, we're not gonna change it. Be didn't change the recipe. They looked at the new generation and said, What can you bring to the table? Don't just change the proof point on something of ours. I'm not we're not asking to change the recipe, we're not asking you to change the product, but taking what we have, what can you create? What can you do? And even if you I I would I'd love to go back. So I've talked about the the tour. Um, if you ever get a chance, behind the beam tour, it's well worth it. The stories that they'll tell, the the things that you're like, oh, that's interesting. For instance, they'll never they'll never put out basil Hayden above the 80 proof point.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yeah, that's there, that's a hard line in the hard line because anything, uh, as both Fred and Freddie said, anyone that comes to them and says, Hey, I've got a good idea for you. And as a company, here's what you should do, and they'll stop and go, is it to give uh barrel-proof basil Hayden? And they'll look and be like, Well, yeah, how'd you know? And they'll go, that tastes like shit. Yeah, not doing that.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

We'll never do that. They don't like the way it tastes.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah, they they're very strict on there's a reason why the proof point is the way it is. There's a reason we pull the barrels off at this age. There's a reason why we use this in this blend. We don't go past that. But yet they looked at the younger generation, the new generation, and said, What can you do? You you brought something to the table of not changing what we do, but blending what we do together. Let's see what you can do with that.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Yeah, I think that's where Beam as a whole has kind of that advantage of it's it still feels like, you know, they've they've been obviously been purchased by a bigger conglomerate, but there's it's still run as a family business, or it's still at least it feels feels and seems from the outside that that way. Um, whereas, you know, like the Heaven Hills, it seems like it's a it's a conglomerate, right? Like they have a lot of tried and true recipes, they have a lot of good products. The business aspect of things is really run smoothly. They do a good job of putting out products that are you know reasonably priced, but it's it's kind of a conglomerate, right? Buffalo Trace kind of has gotten to that point as well where with Sazerac and that it's it's kind of it's like, hey, we know we have good product here, we're not touching anything. This is gonna stay the same. We're just gonna keep putting it out and we're gonna try to put out more and more of it, you know, until the market saturated with it. Whereas Beam is like, you know, it's a it's a fan, like this is this is our family, like this is our history. We want to do it our way. Um, and I feel like they are allowing them to do that, which is great. And that's why you I think you you get that feeling it's like there is that traditional component to it, but there's also that innovation. And it's like, we'll we'll we'll we'll try some things, we'll we'll go out there, but we're not gonna go crazy, like you know, some of your craft distilleries that are like, you know, doing these crazy, you know, wild off-the-wall finishes are really trying to get too, you know, too wild. And then it's like, this isn't, that's not what beam is. You know, um, they stick to that, there's that kind of foundation. It's like we'll branch off and we'll build on this, but we're not gonna go crazy. Um, but we're also not afraid to innovate and to to change some things up.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

It's uh fun if you, and you've probably seen this. If you're a big beam guy, you've probably seen the sign uh that I think it was Booker. Uh they have a sign of a saying of his that um if you don't like our whiskey, you can bring it back, I'll drink it. Uh that's perfect. That's that was, I mean, he was from the stories I hear, even from the family and like uh just reading about Booker, he was your old like stuck in his ways, stuck in his ways, like this is what we do. You know, we're we're not gonna change a whole lot. Uh, how dare you wear jeans to church kind of thing. Like, we don't do that. Um, but then you had Fred that came in, and Fred was like, like, I appreciate your traditions, like I appreciate them. I'm not gonna change Booker because of that. Like, Booker's needs to be this way because that's what dad did. That's how dad taught me to do it. And then you had Freddie that came in, and Freddie Jr. was like, I respect both of you guys, but hear me out. What if we what if we wore jeans and not just jeans, but tennis shoes? Can we wear jeans and tennis shoes now? But no hats. No shorts. We'll keep it somewhat traditional, but like, what if we change just a little bit, tweak a little bit? I look at Little Book and I I I picture Freddie coming in with the argument of, hey, we've got all this product just sitting around waiting. What if we utilize that? What if we had fun with it? What what would happen then? I mean, I I drink this and I go, Nobody likes it. We'll just drink it ourselves. Right, exactly. We'll make it to the point where we really enjoy it. Somebody will drink it. I mean, I I look at I've had the opportunity to be able to try all the little books. And it's the little book chapter one is besides chapters seven and eight, it's the one I've had the least amount of time in my collection. And when you first try it, if it's the first one you ever try, you go, wow. Like this is this is something. Like this is this is unlike anything I've had on the market. But at the same time, it feels very familiar. Like it brings about that familiarity, but it's also like, ooh, there that could be something here. Now you start to have the other ones, and you're like, chapter one is is kind of baseline, but it's it's a really good high baseline to have. It's very bourbon-esque without being bourbon.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

There, I mean, they have some similarity. Obviously, they're all bourbon or they're all whiskey, but they've the all the the iterations that I've tried have been very different. Whereas your bookers, they're different batches, but they they kind of stick to that same kind of profile. You know, they drink a little bit hot, they're you know, they're higher, they're higher-proof. Um, they kind of have that same flavor profile. Whereas, and you know, there's ebbs and flows. Some batches are a little better than others, depending on who you ask, right? But you kind of know what you're getting. With little book, you really don't. It's like you're walking into it, you're like, I know this is gonna be good, but I don't know what it's gonna taste like. I don't have that any idea what that flavor profile is gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Well, Harm, I think you hit the nail on the head there a little bit because a lot of people know that like I like bookers a lot. Um, and I actually like drink it quite a bit. You know what I mean? Um that being said, it still wouldn't really be like a daily drinker for me, you know what I mean? And I think people, when they ask me like what's your favorite, uh, Booker's always is in the conversation. That being said, it's not like something I drink all the time because it is stout, you know what I mean? And it is almost a little too stout at times. What's interesting is you're talking about something that's pretty much the same proof point, if not more, sometimes this would be the at least this bottle we're drinking right now, this would be a daily drinker for me if it could be. If it could be like this is, and that being said, it is full flavored, like Booker's, it's full flavored. It's not like for the fainted heart, but I could still drink this all day, every day, and be fine with that. You know what I mean? It wouldn't be like too much. Whereas I think Booker's would be.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

This is also something that you could, I feel like you could give to a uh a new whiskey drinker to kind of be like, here, try, just try a little drink of this. And they would be like, Whoa, wow, like that's got a lot of that there's a lot going on there, but it's not the whoa, like, oh, that's what proof is that too much, you know. Like, yeah, what did you just give me? Whereas Booker's tends to be a little bit more like that, um, which I love. I I love bookers just as much as you do, probably. And but it's got yeah, it's definitely got that kick. And it's like, yeah, you you know, if somebody's not used to a little higher proof, it it's it can be a bit much, especially if you know you haven't been you can get a glass or two in you, and then you get the bookers, it's like it's not as big of a deal, but maybe make it a run for the hills a little bit. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you could lead off with this and be like they would just be like, What did I what did you just give me?

SPEAKER_02 33:03

And I want more of it. I really think somebody would drink this and go, like, wow, that's high proof as well, but like not that, you know, when you tell them it's dang near 130 proof, they're gonna be blown away. Like, wow, I didn't think it was that high.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Yeah, I I didn't, I I like knowing little book, obviously they're they tend to be higher proof, but I would say they all ebb and flow. And I haven't had this bottle particularly, so I was kind of surprised that it was that higher proof.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

I was like, I would say, like, guessing, I mean, like you said, I kind of knew beforehand that was gonna be over 120 something. But if I didn't know that, I I think I would guess right around that like 112, like one 115, like uh definitely under 120. Over 100, under 120, but to be dang near 130 almost. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Like that's yeah, I'd pin it right about 110, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

It's good, and like you said, Herm, it does look the bottle is even classier than Booker's, I think, because it's it's got that extra detail there with the wax on the bottle, not just on the top.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

The wax with kind of the seal on it, it's got the seal, the little angular label. I I like I personally like their tag a lot better. I feel like it has a little, it's a little more decorative, I guess, if you will. Whereas Booker's comes with the little postcard and it's kind of stuck in there, and it's got the nice tag, and it's you know, hangs on the bottle, and you can kind of leave it there, and like, remind me what's what all's in this. And that's what I like too, is there there's some tra some transparency to it. Oh, yeah. It's like you know what's in that bottle, you may not know what the match is.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Maybe write a whole like a whole thing about the the palette and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Well, it's it's funny because like uh you could tell again, chapter one was the trial because you talk about like each tag for each chapter kind of has not the mash bill, but here's what's in it. And it some of it will say like X percentage of this year, X percentage of that. Like it's some it starts to give you a little bit more of an idea of what might be in there. This one just says whiskey blended with corn, rye, and malt straight whiskeys.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Not it's right there. Whereas with a new tag, it's like, you know, this has decadent flavors of honey and it's very interesting to me that they they actually put some marketing effort into it now, which is like now's the time you probably don't need to because people love it already. Yeah, at this point, you could be like, hey, this is whiskey, drink it.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

But also, like what was the hesitation? Like, you you got to try this. I'm assuming you got to try it before you put it out on the shelves. And you've grown since then. Maybe you've grown to marketing, and the marketing growth to me almost screams we have a bit more confidence now in what we put out versus when we just don't know if they knew the market would have been into this with everything else.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

And you got to talk about the price because even when this first bottle came out, it was not priced cheaply.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah, this was their looking at beam and thinking about their products. The only other bottle at that time that might have been prevalent, and I say prevalent as in yearly, that would have been around this price tag is probably Baker's 13. Because even Booker's uh uh 2017 Bookers would have been what 80, 90? Yeah, 80 bucks.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

So under 100, I would think still you could still find it. Yeah, I mean you can find it now, but I mean you could it wasn't it was readily available then, it wasn't super hard to find, but it was 80 bucks, and I think that that's the thing. Like, if you're beam, you're like we already have a product similar to this. People are gonna look at this little book and look at the price tag and be like, Oh, I can buy bookers, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Because this was put this was pushing this is over a hundred. I mean, this is yeah, uh I think little book chapter one might have been pushing 120.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Yeah, I mean whereas Bookers is 80, it's like yeah. I mean, and they're both in the box, you know what I mean? And and like people, if you don't know, it looks and in some ways Booker's looks cooler because it's a little bit shipwrecked, you know, whereas this is a little bit more refined, maybe, you know what I mean? I I think that it was a for them, it was like, man, we really gonna get a market for this. Like they didn't know, I don't think they knew.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Well, this, yeah, that was, I mean, they were this bottle came out before the real the boom. And obviously, now it's like everyone wants to put out a premiere bottle. And back then it was like, you know, the bourbon, the bourbon market was what it was. It was like, this is what I drink, this is what I stick to. I'll I'll drink something else if you offer it to me. There was a little bit of kind of ebb and flow, and then it was just kind of like boom. Now, now everything is we're trying to get out, push out these premier $200 bottles or the special finishing. And I think that was a little bit before that really before the market really went crazy.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

I remember like 2016, 2017. We even thought Booker's was a little like that was an expensive bottle.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Yes, people didn't buy it, like yeah, because it's I mean it sat on the shelf, and now I mean now it it it does occasionally for a day or two.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

My dad came, he came to visit one time and we went out and I got a bottle of Booker's. And uh, it wouldn't have wasn't the first time I had gotten one, but I remember he couldn't get over it. He was like, You're gonna spend that much time on a bottle? Yeah, like yeah, yeah, it'll be good. He was like, Are you like I've never spent that much bunny money on any bottle? I'm like, Yeah, it'll be it's a good bottle, you know. Those are scotch prices. So he couldn't get over it, yeah. And I'm like, it you're gonna enjoy this, Dad. You know what I mean? But I and I think that that was they were struggling with even people buying. Nobody likes change for $80, let alone Little Book for $120.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

What's so interesting to me is I've had the opportunity to be able to find these bottles or have them as gifts from the wife to the point where I have the whole collection. And I don't say that as a brag, I say that to say this. When I first got introduced to Little Book, it was when I was at Bristol. Um, and I had a bartender that was like, he was a he was a beer drinker and not a bourbon drinker, but he was one that wanted to collect to sell. He he was in the the secondary market kind of deal. And he came to me and he's like, Hey bro, have you heard about Little Book? Like uh, you know, I found Little Book chapter one and two, and I had earned nothing. I don't know if you remember this. I feel like I you and I talked about it. We'd heard nothing about Little Book at that time. Yeah, this would have been 2018, maybe 2019. And uh I feel like you and I talked about it, and both you and I were like, I don't know who makes little book, but this has got to be like a like a marketing gimmick. Yeah, I mean, this thing's gotta, it's too pricey to be worth it. I'm not sure who makes it. It's supposedly a blend of something different every time. We had had our fair share of newer companies that were like, uh, we blend. Uh, we had our our fair share of like high banks, where it was like, we just kind of throw stuff together and that's what we do. We let it fight it out. And we were like, This this has got to be the next gimmicky thing, but an expensive gimmick. And I remember trying, it would have been little book chapter three at that point, or maybe no, it would have been three because four was in 2020. So I tried little book chapter three, and I was like, Holy shit, like this is not a gimmick. This cannot be a gimmick. Like, if any of the other ones taste like this, this is well worth the price tag. Like, I I need to find these right now. I feel like you and I tried little book chapter three and we were like blown away of like, oh crap, we were wrong. Like, but after so many years of having them, you're like, you kind of forget where you came from. And so for me, like, oh, why why would you not want this to be the best thing out there? Why would you not think that this was gonna be chapter one was gonna be the best of the best? Why would you not put as much money into it marketing-wise? Why would you not put as much on the label or information out there? Looking back at it, I would have been I probably would have done the same thing of like, what is this?

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Everyone likes their own brand, but they don't, it's it's hard to kind of justify like, well, is everyone else gonna like is it gonna are they gonna like this price point? Is it gonna sell at this price point?

SPEAKER_01 40:51

And if you're brand loyal to Beam, then at this point you would have been Booker's Booker's is my high-end stuff. Like, that's that's what I'm gonna go after. That's what I'm willing to spend money.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

I'm afraid people are gonna try it and be like, this is good, but Booker's is better and it's cheaper, you know? Right. And then if they had all these bottles and couldn't sell them, and I gotta think that they're making money off these bottles, but they're probably not making much more than like what they would on any other bottle. Like, like there's they were these weren't cheap to produce, you know what I mean? So they're making money off, but if these didn't sell, could they be out money potenti potentially potentially, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, I mean, but uh when you say these these probably aren't cheap to make, I mean you're talking a 13-year-old corn whiskey. Why did they why did they have a 13-year-old corn whiskey sitting around? None of their stuff uses just plain corn whiskey, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 41:40

It did take a lot of odds and ends and misfits to make this, so maybe they weren't out like a six-year-old 100% malt whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

At that time, what did they have that was malt whiskey?

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Just malt whiskey or blend, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:52

And then uh a six-year-old high-ry whiskey. Like, what was that for? Like you you're talking like stuff that they had sitting around for a while.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

That maybe they were trying to age. We're trying to get rid of anyway, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Like they maybe it wasn't that big of a maybe that's why they said you have like you just have access to everything else.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

If you mess it up, it move it.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

It's not gonna hurt us that much. We don't really do anything with half of these, we can make our money back.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Right. I think what it really comes down to is he bl he blended the ratios he used and everything. Like he blended it the right way because he probably could have screwed that up uh drastically. Like if he didn't put the right proportions of what it was.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

I'd love to know how many iterations of his little book chapter one were made before little book chapter one was made. Before he was like, Yep, this is this is the concrete of how many, how many times, how many failures you have, how many bottles and barrels and things that you dip into.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

And so I'd be very curious about that because um the one thing that I've always noticed on these bottles, on the tags that they have is they have the number, the chapter number, the year that was released, the bottle size, and then they've got a batch number on it. And the batch numbers are never the same. So, like this one's batch number two. Did it take you two iterations to figure this one out? Uh, there's another one that I think has like batch 29. Like, did it take you 29 times to figure this one out? You know what I mean? Maybe that's what the batches are, is them failing that many times and then like we got it.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Or they or there's there was multiple releasing chapter one, you know what I mean? Like they released X amount of bottles and then were able to release X amount more and X amount more and X amount more based on how many of the like the kind of the ground floor product that they had.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

They're all the same little book chapter one, but they were different, like releases of chapter one. I've always wondered, I can't find any information about the quantity that they had available to them. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

I don't know. I I would love to do an interview with them. Give us a call that we'll talk about some things. Yes. Yeah. Can you guys think of uh thinking of twenty seventeen? Can you think of any other big name bottles that would have been released at that time? That would have been sought after at this at this price tag. At this price tag? Other than like the B tag.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

I'm trying to think uh what we were looking at at that time. Me and you that was up there.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Um I mean you're thinking, I mean, yeah, you're talking about like even Pappy at that time was I mean still somewhat available. Yeah, it was it was not unobtainable, um, and it was not much more than that. So you look at yeah, I can't, I I honestly can't think of anything. I know there's stuff out there. Um even now, most of the stuff in that price range is like your one-off like small distillery, you know, you're you're kind of hey, this is our one special offering kind of stuff. There's not a whole lot of bottles in that range. I mean, there are a lot now, but yeah, not anything that's regularly occurring.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

And you're talking about a time where people thought $80 for a bottle of like non-scotch was very expensive. Because if you remember Angel's Envy, uh rye when it came out, yeah, that was the $80 bottle, and everybody was like way too much. Way, way, way, way, way too much. Crazy, crazy. I mean, me and you looked at rhetoric 24, was it was like 120, maybe a little less than that. It wasn't anything more than 120. And I remember being like, it's 24-year-old bourbon. This is and I knew this was good, and that was like the same time. That's too much money. We didn't buy it. Remember that? And then Old Forester. I got a call Old Forester birthday bourbon. I could have had for like 120.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

That would be yeah, maybe that I could see that one being one that was and I didn't pull the trigger on it.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I mean, this is a time where 120 was too much money to spend on a bottle of booze, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Now people pay a thousand dollars for a bottle of birthday bourbon.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

I mean, 80 bucks was like the top end that you were willing to pay. Like everything else was around that 30, 40, 50. A good, good bottle was like six, like Angel's Envy being 60 bucks was like the bottle to get. Remember? Not the rye, the regular. It was like, you know, oh man. And if you got it on sale or whatever, sales of it sometimes. This is great, you know. I remember I had like eight bottles of Angel's Land at one time. Remember that? Because I kept getting it on sale. I got it somewhere for like 47 bucks a bottle, which was when did Old Forester release their um their series of like 1910, 19. That was around that time.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

That was right around that time. So those would have been a little price.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

I mean, still not over the hundred dollar mark, but I could those were all around that 40 to 60 dollar mark.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Yeah, I mean, now they're much more than that, I think.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah, but yeah, those and remember I got really into that. Yeah, you did, and I bought many, many of those bottles. The whiskey row series is worth it. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, and uh for you know forty dollars a bottle or whatever. I mean, some of those went up to like right around the 50s, the higher 50s. I don't think they were anything over 60.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

So at that time, you know, wild turkey, it was like that was your bottom shelf, like your college age, you're gonna drink wild turkey.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Now it's like, oh wait, wild turkey's actually good. The hard the hard old Forster to get for a while was that damn fine, the 1910. Yeah, and that's really good. But I still think the prohibition for me is is the is my favorite, but yeah, but the damn fine is really good. I thought it was damn fine. I mean, it tastes very fine, but yeah, I prefer the 19.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

The 1910 is my favorite out of the bunch, but uh definitely or maybe the prohibition one is good, it's it's got a little more proof to it. I like the prohibition when I was first kind of starting out in a whiskey, people were like, you know, try like that's that's one of the series you want to try. Like if you want to try to kind of step up from your, you know, you're just your your bottom of the barrel, kind of bottom shelf, like everyday stuff. Try some of that. And 1910 was one of the first ones I tried. I was like, this is awesome. Yeah, and then it started my downward spiral or upward, depending on how you look at it. And here I am, yeah, here I am. But yeah, I think uh yeah, I don't I can't think of one bottle really that like regular occurring bottle back then that would have been around, like I said, you know, you know, your bookers is your 80 bucks, so everything else probably would have been lower price as well. Now with inflation, all those bottles that were 80 bucks back then are now 100, but the bottles that are 100 now would have been either non-existent or you know, 70 bucks, 60 bucks, something like that.

unknown 48:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

So this was a big risk for them. I think it paid off. I don't want to see anyone else take this risk because I don't I don't think they can do it. I think Turkey could do could do something. Turkey might be able to take.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

I think turkeys, we've talked about that. Turkeys do for some sp more specialty bottles, and not I'm not talking about their revival the master keeps there, yeah. They're freaking $300.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

Well, they're Russell's reserve stuff. That that I mean that that that goes some of that stuff, the single workhouse and stuff, those are much more the Russell stuff's always been always been good.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

But uh they don't do much outside of the like master's keep.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

I feel like the turkey and yeah, I mean I'm I'm a I've always been a big turkey guy, you know that we used to rival about that. I thought turkey and he thought beam, you know. I think I'm more on the beam side these days, but they just have more to offer, you know. But I do really, really like turkey. Uh always have, but they are due for some specialty bottles, not and nothing crazy expensive, but they need to be putting out some of the higher end $80 range, you know, um would be cool. I'd be I'd be all into that. What about the Kentucky Spirit? See here, I dude. I you're gonna get me going on a rant, but I think they really kicked like shot themselves right in the nuts with that Kentucky Spirit thing because the way the old bottles looked, and it's a good, it's a good product. But the way the old bottles looked, it was their blantons, dude. And by changing up that bottle appearance to making it basically just a new label on um on their their um rare breed bottle, it just looks like crap. It looks like crap. And and and and the the the liquid in it is good, but it's not that good. You know what I mean? Like when you when you compare it to rare breed, you know, uh rare breed rye and all that stuff. Like it's it's good. I really like Kentucky Spirit, but man, they really killed themselves by getting rid of that bottle. Like you've you've seen the bottle, right? Dude, it's out there on the shelf. You have to look at it. It's it's just completely different. Like they just took all the personality out of that bottle.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yeah, it's very, it is very, very bland, very plain. And it's just like, oh yeah, we'll just slap a new label on this, put a different, different liquid in it's just not make it unique, make it special. I mean, there's something to be said for a good looking bottle. It is, dude. I even if you you might take a risk on a bottle that's a little more expensive if it looks really cool because then you're like, oh, that looks good looking.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Even pouring it out of something like that changes your experience because it's like getting something poured out of a nice decanter, yeah, getting poured something poured out of a nice bottle. Versus if you take like this stuff and you put it in like the crappiest bottle out there, you're gonna enjoy it. You're gonna be like, this is great, it but it's not the same.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Yeah, it's totally not the same. It's I mean, if you think about this bottle, it's just like the bookers in shape, it's just like what bakers used to be in shape. Yeah, bakers changed their shape and their look, and now you got people that are willing to spend I hate I hate the way bakers look time uh they're they're willing to spend you know almost twice the amount for an old bottle of baker's for the bottle itself, even though it's the exact same juicy library.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Bakers sat on the shelf because it doesn't look the old bottles look like when those new bottles came out, people went nuts, yep, nuts, and I hate those new bottles, they're so gaudy like topper and so I still have that one that one on the shelf, and I'm not gonna if I ever open this and drink it, I'm gonna pour other bakers in here. I hate those bakers bottles with a passion. I have one open out there, but I hate it, but I I just think that that Kentucky Spirit looked really kind of like this, and but it wasn't even priced as much. But it was one of their like specialty bottles that you could could get and at a good price, and they just it just now it just doesn't look like anything. People overlook it, it's still good, it's just not it's not you know anything special. And I think honestly, for me, now we reach a four cell creator, the rare breed the Kentucky Spirit, you know. I think uh that is an underrated. I don't know if we've had that on the podcast or not. I think rare breed is underrated.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

That was the first high-proof bourbon I had had, like higher proof, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

In the rye, the rare breed.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

Now I look at it and I'm like, oh yeah, this is nice. I think it's kind of a middle middle of the road proof, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

I feel like we it is very good. We've talked about like people having their brands. Now you've got so many brands out there that it's not like this is my like my brand, you know. Like I have to stay, you know, it always has to be the white label, always has to be the white label. It's almost like people are now like, if I want something basic but yet good and reliable, I'm gonna go wild turkey. Like it doesn't matter what.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Yeah, if I'm in if I'm in a bar or I'm ordering if I'm ordering a cocktail, like if I'm ordering an old-fashioned uh, you know, at a restaurant or bar, I'm like, I want the wild one-on-one. Like, give me an old-fashioned one-on-one. I've been like that for the yeah. We have that no no no, just just just pour me the one-on-one.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

It's no longer like brand loyalty, it's like what's reliable. Yeah, like well if I want to reliable every single day.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

That's like my go-to, right? Almost always don't have to change the classic, right? Just maybe create something new, you know. I'm just saying, add a few, add a few specialty bottles would be nice and go back to your old Kentucky.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

Well, look what they did with the what was it, 70th anniversary? It was fan. That bottle was amazing. It was eight years, it was just a little bit older, a little older. And it's like people ate it up. I mean, they were all over it, and I was like, I mean, I would like to get a bottle, but you can't get it, you can't find it. It's harder to, it's a little bit harder to find. And when I got a chance to try it, I was like, oh yeah, this is what I really want now, and then I'm not gonna get it. So can we get a 71st anniversary?

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yes, just do just do an anniversary bottle, but just every year, just throw it in.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

I thought about this. I I don't know if I ever told you this or not, if we talked about it, but I my idea for Wild Turkey was uh Wild Turkey 110. Okay, so it's 101 10 years. That's kind of a cool idea, right? Yeah, just 10-year 101, but call it 110, wild turkey 110. I think it's a good idea. I think it's can we just buy a barrel of wild turkey and let it sit for 10 years? I think it's a good idea, and you wouldn't have to like make it too fancy, just change up the colors on the bottle or something, you know. But throw it and throw it, throw it back, you know, get it get an old the old style bottle and uh enroll with that or something unique, you know, a little wax or something, but yeah, wild turkey 110. That's a good idea, right? I'll I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Yeah, I'd take it after having their eight, their their 70th anniversary, I'll take a 10-year. I'll I'd be excited to see what it is.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

I don't think it'd be hard for them to do either. No, no, I'm sure they have it sitting. I mean, there's there's bottles sitting or barrels sitting, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Uh I'm not sure it's a them issue. Um so so Kampari owns them.

unknown 54:59

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

One of the things that was asked on this tour of Fred and Freddie was, you know, since you and Jimmy Russell are such good friends, will you guys ever will we ever see a collaboration from you guys?

unknown 55:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

They said the exact same thing. And I was I looked at them, I think they saw my face because I was like, uh, but but why? And the reaction was Jimmy would love to do it, but Kampari will never allow us to do it.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

They sell out to them, is that what happened?

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Or yeah, Kampari owns Wild Turkey. But they but they made the decision to yes, so and it was one of those Kampari is it's so fascinating when you start looking at big corporations and conglomerates because Beam made a very wise choice with who they decided to allow them to buy out because Centauri, they're very family generational focused, and they want to they want that to stay. They don't you do a good thing, we don't want to touch what you do.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

That felt more like a merger than a bias.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Um, Kampari, if you think about who Kampari owns, it's very like gaudy almost products of like we don't have very many of them, but they're like strange that we they're strange and yet they're names like Golschlager, yeah. Like they're they're more than names that we own more than anything else. And if you look at Sazraq, it's like we go wide, like we have so many products that we own name-wise, you know what I mean? Yep, but they don't go deep, they go wide.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

Yeah, I mean you look at Mac Baron and Sutla, buying out everyone and then just cutting costs at every corner and killing off brands.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

And so it's interesting to look at that and they're like, Yeah, Jimmy Russell would love to do stuff with us, we would love to do stuff with him, but Kampari our corporations would never allow the two to to work together. Like he'd have to leave. That that's pretty much what it came down to. Like, he'd have to leave Wild Turkey and then sign something that says right if he doesn't work for Wild Turkey, he doesn't work in the bourbon industry.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

Yeah, I'm sure there's an uncle Pete there.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Yeah, exactly. Which is sad because it would be fun to see them. I think they could do something fantastic together. I think a collaboration together would spark more interest in Wild Turkey, but I think it would spark something in Wild Turkey to say we could do something different, like we could we could add on something a little bit more, especially if they worked with Freddie No Jr. of like we could we could be a little bit more innovative. Not change, but we're gonna add something a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

I mean I think I mean when you look at this and you look how successful it's been, I I I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this in the future coming from somebody like Wild Turkey where they're like we've got these different although they don't have a ton of the different products to kind of blend, but they could get a little more creative with what they're putting out in terms of blending some stuff and and they've done obviously they've done some of that with some of their like the Voyager and you know the Master's keep stuff. But it should be interesting. I think this is a I mean this is a perfect example of that you can take what's traditionally been your thing and make it better without changing what it really is. Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

I mean it you'll see as we go on to the other chapters. This this tells a story of distilleries that have experimental stuff that they did and they just have it laying around and like, what could we do? Like, I don't know. This this tells a story of there's nothing. There should never be anything at a distillery that's in a barrel that should go to waste. Like there's always a possibility for it and a use in something. You just gotta, we don't have a 13-year corn whiskey, but there's a barrel of it here. What do I do with it? Right, exactly. Like we let's figure it out. Like we're not just gonna let it go to waste. This is good, this means something. Like we took the time to do it. Let's let's use it for something else and see what happens, which I'm excited for you guys to try the other chapters too.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

I think the one thing I can say for for a little book, kind of balance off what he was saying with you know, bookers is one of those things that you kind of go to and it's like glass bookers. I I will go to it probably more often than most would, similar to Chris, but it's one of those is like, yeah, my glass here, glassy. You know, if I'm sitting down and I'm like, I'm gonna get one, I'm gonna have one glass tonight. What do I want to have? I'm gonna get a booker's probably, or or that's one I'm gonna lean towards more often than others. The problem with little book is I don't have one glass of little book. You know, it's like I had one glass, I'm like, I want more of that.

SPEAKER_04 59:34

Yeah, you keep drinking it.

SPEAKER_03 59:35

You know, I I it's like, and so I'm I'm almost hesitant to open my bottles of little book because not from a sense of like I don't want to drink them because they're you know, they're this elite, you know, they're so limited or whatever. It's like I know once I open it, it's gonna be half gone. And then I'm gonna be like, oh no, what have I done?

SPEAKER_02 59:50

Well, this is a perfect bottle for the night. Yes, right? We've talked about that. The night, like when you're having one of those nights. Um, whether you're celebrating something or you're just like having one of those nights where you have a couple guys over and it's a special night, dude. And it's the Irish mentality, right? We open a bottle, we drink a bottle. Like there's not gonna be any saving of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

And I think that's the other thing I love about the little book, and I don't know that it was meant in this way, is as Herm was pointing out, these are very limited. Like these these are like chapter one and chapter two were around for a hot minute a little bit longer than most. Um, they tried to do like a uh like a distillery membership. If you like bought into this and you lived in Kentucky, they would ship you chapters one and two, like in a box. Interesting. Um, but that was like years a couple years after they were done with one and two.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

So they had some lying around.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Apparently they had some lying around, but all the other chapters, it's one and done. Like they they don't have, to my knowledge, don't have more just sitting around.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

Serve hanging out, hanging around for a box edition, box set.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Right. Like these are very much like I recognize what I made and I appreciate what I blended together and put out there. But this is meant to be finished. This is meant to be shared. This is meant to be finished. This is not meant to be a shelfer. This is not meant to be um Oh, look at me, look at what I have. Right. Like this is meant to be like we open it, we finish it, or we open it with friends and we share it with friends.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

Like that's what this is a great bottle for you know Christmas or you know, for the big game, or that's why it comes in that wedding bottle.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

It's a case to carry around, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:30

Hey, I I got this for us for on the wedding, you know, your wedding night or your bachelor party, or maybe not a bachelor party, that's a bad bad example, but this would be good for a bachelor party. Yeah, one of a more casual bachelor party, I suppose. But yeah, I mean any kind of uh uh an event where you're gonna be able to share it with somebody, it's it's more about the the experience. Not only are you gonna experience a great bottle, but you're gonna experience it with some good people, and you're gonna remember that night and you remember that bottle and you'll have that memory, but you won't have that bottle anymore. Yeah, you you can try to. Which I think is kind of where they've where they've gone with the infinite series. I think they kind of realize like we we probably should have had an opportunity to maybe like roll this into something bigger or something more lasting. Um, and I think that that's I'm I'm interested to see where that series goes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

That brings me into another idea that I had. If you were a company, nobody's done this, but this this is a good idea, unless I think it's a good idea. You guys tell me. But say you're Jim Beam and you come out with a bottle that's called like the infinite bottle infinite bottle or something like that. And what it is, is it's it's like a really nice but functionally styled decanter. Okay, then you write some stuff on it and it's all like very easy peel-off labels, but it's got etched, it's gonna have etched Jim Beam because F you if you're not using our products, right? But the idea is, and you put it on there, it's like explaining to people what they don't know an infinity bottle is. But basically, as as you get down in your collection, dump this in in this bottle and see what you can make yourself, kind of an idea. So it's giving people the idea, the uh uh, the uh ability to have their own infinity bottle. But hey, use ours with our name on it. You get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

I'm gonna take it a step further and say, whoever does this, hopefully it would be Beam, because that'd be really cool. But if you keep track of what's in there, percentages of everything, if you take the bottle full back to them with that, they'll etch it on the bottle itself of like here's what percentages of here's what's in the bottle. Yeah, that would be a lot of work. That would be that would be really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

But I mean, it's a good way, like they, you know, you're buying, and it obviously comes filled with something, but so you're buying it because it's a cool bottle, you're buying it because it's gym beam and it's good, it's whatever it is. Say it's say it's like a booker's or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:52

But it becomes your little, you know, your little book infinity.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:54

Becomes your little book infinity.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

I've got chapters one through eight.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

The fact that we have like it's clean, it's nice looking, all the labels peel off, except it's etched Jim Beam. So like you could put wild turkey in here, but like, are you going to? Are you going to? So I mean you're you're almost like you're making you're making uh fans bigger fans, you're making re customers repeat customers. And it's a cool idea. Like, I think people, everybody would want one. They're collectible, right? Too, and everybody would want one of these bottles and make it like a decanter style bottle that you buy in a store filled already. You drink that bad boy down either all the way or until there's a little bit left, and you just start dumping stuff in it. And like you're encouraged to make this your infinity bottle. It's a good idea. Nobody's done this, right? Nobody's done this.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

You would sell bottles, you would sell bottles. I agree. I mean, I think, and I think no matter how much you say, like, oh well, marketing, you know, doesn't matter as long as you have a good product, or marketing is a gimmick, or whatever. As whiskey drinkers, you're drawn to that pretty bottle. Like, that's why people love Blanton's.

unknown 1:04:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:53

You look at the Blanton's bottle, like the bottle itself is the icon, it's not the necessarily the liquid it's in.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

Blanton's liquid when came in a plastic bottle. Nobody would give a crud about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:03

Yeah. I mean, I could take a Blanton's bottle and I could pour the I could pour an $18, $23 bourbon in there, and people be like, this is so good. This is the best. This this flantin's is great, you know? And it because it comes out of that unique bottle. Um, and those are, I mean, people who drink whiskey are gonna say that, right? Because it comes out of this super nice bottle. But it's also like it's one of those things that you're gonna keep, you're gonna refill it, use it as a decanter, you're gonna have one on your shelf at all times because it looks nice. Yeah, yeah. It you know, it sits on the top shelf for a reason because it's pretty.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

Well, look at a wild turkey.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Used to do this with their ceramic bottles. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And Turkey did too. The collect it, the decanter collectors do things. I'd love to see those come back. But this somewhat, yeah. Infinity, you know, and if for it to be called Infinity or the Jim Beam Infinity or something, you know, I just think that that is a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

It's like the it's like the bottle we got from when we were at Journeyman. We all scooped it up because it was in a it was in a raven. Yeah. You know, it was in a raven to can't talk. I mean, the the juice was great. It's fantastic. It's badass. Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

That is badass.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

Like a P and anytime I show anybody, I'm like, what is that? I'm like, that's and I tell them the story and like how it's unique and it's a cool bottle and it's a it's a talking piece. And I'm like, oh now try it. And they're like, this is great. Or I'll have them, I'll have them do, you know, I trade samples with a buddy of mine from work. And so I sent him I sent him that sample with a couple others. He's like, you know, I liked all these, but this one was my favorite. What is that? And I showed him the picture and he's like, that's a cool bottle too. You know, he's like, I love it. He's like, Where'd you get that? I'm like, you're not gonna get it. It's gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

Like, you know, I want to get one more and then use them as bookends. Yeah, that'd be cool. That'd be that'd be cool, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:48

Yeah, it's a gorgeous bottle. Even my kids are like, Oh, that's my favorite. That's my favorite one of yours that you have on, you know, because I have a barrel and that's it sits on top of my barrel. It's it's that's kind of my my pride and joy piece, if you will. And they're like, That's we love that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

You should get more like the raven like starting to take off the wings out.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

That would be cool for bookends. That would be cool for bookends, you're right. That would be like I should call, we should talk to them and be like, hey, you should make these more into like bookends. Yeah, you really should. A little flat flat spot on here to yeah, it's a great idea. Just get Beam to start coming back with their decanter series. I think everybody should start coming back with decanter series. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

I like the decanters, they're just classy.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

They're so classy, dude. The only people Irish whiskey still does like crocs and stuff, but at any rate, we're gonna come back and we're gonna drink more.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

So this one was the easy. The easy next one. Uh no simple task. Oh, there you go. So wow. Talking about a 180 there. So very interested to see what the the 180 difference is between those two. But yeah, we got no simple task coming up. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:00

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychaserspod.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.