Kings County Empire Rye!

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

I'd pair Burley. I'd pair like a basic burley. Like I would probably pair Prince Albert because it's it's a very basic burley, but it's got some topping to it. Whereas like the Carter Hall does. The tobacco at this point would be the the the canvas. It would be the canvas. Because I I would this, I just took a sip of it and it is there's a lot going on. Really powerful. Like almost overwhelming. It would be the blank sheet of paper that I would that I would paint on. Paint on, yes. Okay. Because this is gonna bring all the color and everything else. I can't, you really can't add much to the only reason why I would do Prince Albert instead of like Carter Hall or something like that, is that Prince Albert has a little bit more topping and it would add a little bit of sweetness, just a just a hint of sweetness, which I think would actually go well with this, because this is so far one sip, this is lacking some sweetness.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Well, compared to the other one, compared to the other one.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

Yeah, yeah, it would be this, but I would tell you what, after you know, having like a few glasses and then having this, this is this will knock you on your AS.

SPEAKER_06 1:29

I was just about to say first sip and I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Here we go. This will knock you on your AS.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Proofy proofy. We're back. Still no Steve, uh sadly.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

But uh Steve. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Steve missed out.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

CJ and Blake in the house.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

CJ and Blake in the house, and we are on our last bottle to finish the series of the three U's, the unknown, unnamed, underrated distilleries. He got it that time. He did. I was very impressed.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

It only took four episodes, but he got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Uh it took a while, yes. This one out of the great state of New York. This is Kings County. Chris likes to say that the Hudson Baby bourbon was the first distillery in New York. It was, yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

When when you guys think of New York, do you think of whiskey? Not at all. The first one since prohibition, I should say. I don't think it was the first one ever.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

I don't think of what sorry, what would you say? When you think of New York, do you think of whiskey? I think cocktails.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

I think of rude people.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

I think of like and pigeons. Yeah, high-end cocktails, people that wanna want to drink, yeah, high-end cocktails. They're not gonna sit there and sift. I think uh uh home alone. They're gonna go party, right? Home alone too, yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Mad Men, we're getting Canadian whiskey, chunking out. Yep, yep, yep. So uh the reason I I bring up Chris and the Hudson Baby bourbon, uh being the first distillery, is there's something about New Yorkers that they they have to claim the first of something to be proud of that. Uh this is the first distillery. This this will crack you up. First distillery that has a 24 liter stainless steel still making whiskey seven days a week, 16 hours a day. So they had to find something that they were in. In New York 24-7.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

I don't know if I want to get behind that. Like people a break.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

I mean, we're talking seven days a week, sixteen hours. Yeah, 16-7.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

I was gonna say, give people a break.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Uh they they like to have the claim for that one. They are in King's or Kings County. I don't know where that's at. In 2012, they moved uh to the historic Brooklyn Navy Yard. Brooklyn. But they kept the Kings County name because that's where they first originated and started. Uh it's New York's premier craft distillery, is what they they like to say. One of the smallest craft distilleries. They do. It's the first time we've ever had Kings County on here. I remember seeing Kings County on the shelf in Indiana, and it was like a hundred plus a bottle. And I went, I don't know you. Your bottles look like I sh maybe I should be paying 30 to 40 bucks for it.

SPEAKER_05 4:09

They're understated, but they are understated. I like the way it looks. It could be an $80 bottle or it could be a $30 bottle.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

So, Chris, Kings County is like at the beginning of like Long Island, right there at the mouth.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

So they do a bourbon, a pita bourbon, an empire rye, and other creative whiskeys. Heated bourbon. And they never, and this is my favorite, is they have it on their website. We never sell whiskey made from any other source. So they don't source anything. I like that. They make it very clear this is ours. You gotta debate that in a little bit. I appreciate that. Empire Rye. Yes, so we are drinking barrel strength empire rye, like from the Empire State Building? No, so it's a great question. I mentioned on the last one a hint that we're drinking a new style of rye. So Empire Rye got its start in, uh believe it or not, New York, right? So there's a couple distilleries that came together that said, hey, we want to figure out how to come with something that's ours, it's our own, right? You you've got uh Pennsylvania rye, Maryland rye, you've got you know different styles of bourbon, or like bourbon is this and made in different places. But they were trying to figure out how do we do us. We we need to do our rye, we need something for New York. So, in order to be Empire Rye, 75% has to be grain grown in New York. So 75% of the mash bill has to be grain grown from the state of New York. Interesting. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

But 75% of the mash bill's gotta be whatever it is, has got to be from New York, okay?

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Distilled to no more than 160 proof. Okay, okay. Age no uh for a minimum of two years in char new American oak barrels. At least two years, okay. Now, barrel entry proof, no more than 115 proof.

SPEAKER_05 6:00

Okay, so they can't do anything over 115 proof.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Interesting. They can distill it up to 160, but they can't put it into the barrels at more than 115.

SPEAKER_05 6:09

Wait, hold on. Did you say this was barrel strength then? This is barrel strength. So they had to make sure that this went into the barrel at a 115. Yeah, because otherwise they could be flirting with because it's gonna it's gonna age up. Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

And everything uh it comes off the still at 160 in order for right for bourbon and for uh it can't be higher than 160.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

166. Yeah, I don't and then I thought it was 125. For barrel entry, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

So for this one, they're proofing prior to barreling. Yes, they're proofing it down, they're letting it distill up a little bit for two to at least two years, maybe more.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

And it has to be mashed, fermented, distilled, barreled, and aged in a single New York State distillery.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

Interesting. Well, how about that? So it's gotta be New York, New York, New York. It has to be New York, as uh old blue eyes would say.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, I was just thinking that New York, New York.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

It has to be New York, it can't be anywhere else. They did it their way, yes. Gosh, they did it their way. So this is this is true. Like, this is our stuff.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

I like it. I like how proud of New York they are, not just the city, but the state. Right. I like how they're doing all these things. I like the idea that they made their own stipulations on what a rye could be, and that means they're going after rye specifically, which again, kudos to them.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

And again, we we mentioned it has to be at least 75% of the matchbill has to be from New York grain.

SPEAKER_05 7:29

So they can only source 25% from other farms or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

So this one is 80% New York grown Denko rye. I've never heard of Denko rye. 20% English barley malted.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Is it normal for distillers to have? I'm reading this little booklet that came on the top of an actual booklet. Yeah, it is. It's a nice thick booklet, but it says that all their grains are non-GMO.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

That's probably a New York thing, right? Is it also gluten-free?

SPEAKER_04 8:02

They're all gluten-free, but not only do they not source it, but they do not sell their whiskey outside of what they do because they don't want anybody else taking their whiskey and doing something different to it.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

They don't contract distill.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

I mean, I I I applaud that. Sorry, not to take your talking points, Nick, but I thought that was very interesting.

SPEAKER_05 8:21

80% rye from New York. Dinko rye. When I think of rye, I don't think of New York State. And but this is full flavored. Holy cow.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

So they say they source their rye whiskey or rye from a local farmer in the Hudson Valley. And the what he uses, the strain that he uses, is Danko rye. It's a hardy grain with roots from Poland.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

Now, do you think that this is the same rye? Uh, if there's any rye used in Hudson's? I'm sure there's some rye.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

I don't remember if Hudson Baby Bourbon, like the Hudson Company, was one of those that went uh or helped them go after the Empire rye, the the idea of it. I wonder if they use the same, but they wonder if they use the same store.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

Yeah, I don't know. I have to look into that. Great question. Yeah because I I will say off the first two sips I've had, I don't I don't think this is nothing like baby bourbon.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

No, not at all. So here's the crazy thing all of their bourbon, bourbon on through rye, everything they make, the barley comes from the UK. The UK. So they're getting it from UK. They don't use American barley. All of it is from UK. That's a cost. Yeah. To get that. So anything anything peted comes from Scotland. Anything that's unpeated comes from England.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

Because they have a peted bourbon, right? That sounds interesting too.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

CJ and I were looking at this. This thing's dark. It is dark, and it is full of flavor. It's viscous. It's very viscous.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

Viscous. Yeah, this is this is freaking full flavored. Like, this is full flavored.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Here's my BY. Um, so there's a few different things. Flavor-wise, not color flavor, they use open air uh fermentation for four days. Yeah, so but they use wooden vats and tanks, so they they switch between the two. So some are wooden, some are metal tanks, all open air.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

That's that's what 1792 does as well.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

I think it's the idea, yeah. The idea of allowing uh the potential for wild yeast to interact from the air. Then they also do twice distilled, once in copper pots that were made in Scotland, and once in copper pots made in Kentucky. And 140 proof is what they pull it off the still at.

SPEAKER_05 10:29

They couldn't have pulled this off the still at 140, though, right? Oh, I guess, but then they distilled down and then they or I mean they cut it in water.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

160 is the max they can pull it off the still for the Empire rye. 114, I think 114 is what they could put it in. And then they cut it and then they put it in a barrel. So they put it in at 114, aged two to nine years, is what they look for for the rye. Two to nine years.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

That's a huge span. Like, what is this?

SPEAKER_02 10:54

I'm I'm saying they're utilizing the journal process because they started out with fifth 10 to 15 gallons, blended with 30 to 53, and now they use 30 gallons and 53 gallons. So they're so they're blending more interaction with yolk. Yep, so they're using smaller barrels to get the darker interaction, which is why it's so concentrated. I think so. I think that's bringing on the color.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

It the flavor is bold and full, it's concentrated, yeah. I like it, dude. I just gonna say it already. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Blake, do you understand this whole chill filtration and non-fill? So they do they boast non-chill filtration.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Explain that to me because I'm not familiar with all of that.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

So you have chill filtration or non-chill filtration. So essentially, if you have a bourbon, so they have what it's called the flocking point. So if you have a bourbon that's let's say lower proof, I think it's it's gotta be real low. It's basically gotta be like, I think it's like below 85.

SPEAKER_06 11:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Okay, and you decide, oh, I want to put ice in this. If it's non-chill filtered, then you'll see some of the soluble, like fatty acids essentially. Sure, you get that fatty floating on the top type of they essentially precipitate out of the solution of bourbon. And so they're like, ooh, if you're not into bourbon, maybe you don't like that or you don't understand that, and you're like, oh, this bourbon's bad.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

Or something's in my glass.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

It gets cloudy, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

Yeah, it does get cloudy, yes, sediment.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

So what they do for chill filtration is instead of you, you put the ice in it, and now you see the fats, we'll do that here, and they chill it down really low, like below I forget what it is, really low temperatures. Strain it out, yeah. Then the fats come out of the solution, then they strain out the fats. So now when it comes to you, even if you put the ice on it, it's not gonna be it in it. Okay, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

So that's a chill filter, and a non-chill filter, you would see the fats potentially.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

But if the alcohol concentration is so high, you wouldn't see them anyways. So that's kind of what my big point is. Like, if you have like a drink or something and they they chill filter, it's like, well, you didn't have to do that because you wouldn't see it anyways. So what's what's the point?

SPEAKER_04 13:06

What point do you not see it?

SPEAKER_03 13:08

I think it's like 84 or 85 proof, it's really low.

SPEAKER_05 13:13

So people just like to filter it out and say that they filtered it out.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Does it doesn't impart a different flavor? I think it gets rid of the impurities, maybe something else to stamp on the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

The argument is like I think we know our bourbon club, we talked to um Middle West about it, and that's what I brought up. I'm like, why would you do it anyway? Since the proof point's so high, and he's like, Some people think it does impart a specific flavor, but then you get into that's charcoal filtered and stuff. But then you get into the point of well, if you know it imparts a flavor, can you legally do that for bourbon? Because you're not supposed to be a few, which maybe not why it's called Tennessee whiskey, so or mesquite flavor uh filtered, like yeah, like long branch. You hear both ways. Some people are like, oh, I like the flavor of you know the non-chill filter because now you have all the fats, you got everything on cut unfiltered, right? And then other people are like, Well, I'm pulling this off during the chill filtration because this is what what I want my bourbon to taste like.

SPEAKER_05 14:09

Either see it as taking away or or refining. Bingo. Exactly. I like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Now we we talked about them claiming that you know they they don't run 24-7, but they're open seven days a week for what, 18 hours, 16 hours, somewhere there, like not not a full day, right? A full 24-hour day, I should say. All of their stuff that I have seen so far in my journey with Kings County is a limited once-a-year release. This is a limited once-a-year release, and they only release it once and they're done. So this doesn't come out very often. Nope. But their claim is, and so I mean, they're they're genuinely blending a lot of barrels together for this. Their claim is they release it once a year, and the reason they release it once a year is partially because of uh what they have that they can they can kind of in part and be done with. The other thing is the flavor they get out of this is what they believe was the pre-prohibition style of rye you would find in New York. And so they're trying to search after that flavor once a year.

SPEAKER_05 15:22

It's good flavor if that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

If that's what it was, why did it die out? Because this is wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 15:28

So it's called what what's the actual name of this one, this bottle specifically? They just call it Empire Rye? Yes, and that's it. So Empire, it's so they made a new thing called Empire Rye, and then they named this after that.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

That's no. Uh let me let me step back. Their their bottles don't have names. Okay. It's just like Kings County's distillery. Yep. So Kings County Bourbon, Kings County Peted Bourbon, Kings County Rye. They have a just a normal rye, and then they have Kings County Empire Rye.

SPEAKER_05 15:57

Empire Rye. That's right. Okay, interesting. I love the bottle shape and the look. It's very nondescript. This will crack you up, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

I think we went hunting for Mary's car a couple years ago, a new car for her. And we sat down in a Toyota dealership, and Mary started talking to the gal we were working with the salesperson. And Mary brought up that I we were on a trip or going to a trip to Kentucky because I'm a big bourbon guy. And there's another guy sitting, another salesperson that's probably what, 10 feet away at another desk. Listening in. And he hears Kentucky for bourbon, and he literally stops what he's doing. He's working with someone, stops what he's doing, looks over at us and goes, Now, have you tried Kings County bourbon of any kind? And I go, Are you talking to me? Like, is this a conversation with us now? Like, you're you're with someone. He's like, Yes, you have you have you had anything. Yes. This is up in Delaware.

unknown 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

And I was like, No, I I haven't had anything. I've seen their bottles, haven't had anything. And he goes, You can't get it in Ohio. You can hardly find it in Kentucky and Indiana. You will find it in New York. He goes, I'm from New York every time, or his wife is. So every time they go visit, he gets he loads up like cases of this stuff from Kings County to bring it back. And I heard that and I was like, All right. Like, it's gonna be all right. I mean, you know, it's it's where your wife's from. Like, you go visit once a year or more.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

We had a lot of different ways.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

I've had a lot, like, how good is this stuff? And I I got there bottled in bond on that trip. I was like, I found a bottle and bottom, we'll we'll get this. And I tried it, and you've tried it before. I hardly have anything left of it because it's just so dark and rich and good. We posted a picture about it on the the podcast Instagram or whatever, and tipsy saw it. Tipsy went out and found as many cases as he could get of it. Based on your photo, and sold out in a day or two. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

He then was just across Indiana, yeah, Ashley, Indiana.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Right. So, like he he went out and found it. He brought it, tried to bring it back, and originally Herm saw that he had both of these bottles. He had a barrel strength bourbon, and then this, and got two bottles. And I was like, it was the last two. Herm did Herm did. It was the last two bottles that Tipsy had, and Tipsy goes, Next time I get a case in, I'll I'll save you back some. I'm not upset at all with this.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

It's good. That's surprising to hear you say, Blake, because this is very this is very rye.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

I would say though, with rise, especially since this is higher proof, I feel like rise impart that you know spiciness that you get off of higher proofs. So for me, with higher proof rise, it's harder to pick up the rye because I just think the proof. I just think high proof. So absolutely, yeah. For me, this is this is really approachable for high proof. What is the proof?

SPEAKER_05 18:53

122. So it's not that, yeah, you're right. It's not that rye for that proof point because it is a it's a punch, it's a punchy one.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

But here's what we're talking what I think provides something unique is multiple variances. We got a Denko rye that I've never heard of that's based out of New York but came from Poland. Never heard of it, never had it. I've I don't even know if it exists outside of this. Then for all of their stuff, the bizarre thing, why are we taking barley from the UK? Like, that's bizarre to me that we're taking England barley and we're bringing it over for this specifically. Like, what's the connection there? They must have a connection to somebody there. They do it for all of their putted stuff there's from Scotland. Yeah, I think it imparts a unique flavor. But then the other thing that I think provides a uh unique variant, uh an ingredient into this that you talk Kentucky bourbon, Kentucky rye, they stick very close to I'm gonna have barrel entry proof. Whatever that max is, I'm gonna get as close as I can to that max. This is the second distillery I've talked to or uh read up on that they go, we aren't gonna go up to 125. We're actually gonna lower it. We're gonna lower it and lower it and lower it. So they're 116, right? Yes, they went in. So 115 is the most they can do. They went in at 114. Liberty Pull 108.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Well, and they even talk about in this little booklet that like this allows them to avoid the tannic quote unquote. That's what Liberty Pull did whiskey. Yeah, that's what Liberty Pull said, too.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

With as much flavors it says, it's not, it's not uh acrid, it's not overpowering, it's not, but it is full freaking flavor.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

So much flavor going on here. And I don't know if that I think the UK barley has something to do with it. I think the intraproof, the denko rye, I think all that has something to do with it. And then you add on top of that another ingredient, another variant that says, Hey guys, we're using 30 to 53 gallons for this blend. The club did a 15-gallon barrel pick from Journeyman that was three years, and that thing drinks like it's six.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Just in the flavor.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Like what what is a combination of 30-gallon and 53-gallon barrel?

SPEAKER_05 21:19

I was gonna say this also tastes very mature. It does. And did you say the age on this already, or not?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

There is no well. The the blend of ages is two to nine years.

SPEAKER_05 21:30

That's a huge we don't know, but it tastes very mature.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Well, I'm guessing 30 gallons are closer to the two-year. I would assume. I'm I'm assuming they're not keeping 30. I really hope they're not keeping it in 30 gallons for nine years.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

That's uh boy.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

So I have a question. They they say that they push this pushes more towards their mash bill pushes them more towards like a European style whiskey. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Scotch. So European style whiskeys are more barley. They are high, high bar. I mean, they're malts.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

That's all their malted barley pushes them more towards that European flavor.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

I think the fact that they use 20% barley. I don't know another distillery that uses that much barley. And here's why. And understanding talking to Brendan, and I think I've talked to you about that. Barley, or they molt barley in a mash bill just to help break down the sugars. So the idea is the barley has enough uh enzymes to help break it down. Corn doesn't have enough enzymes to break it down. Rye, if you molt rye, it might, but barley, molted barley has the most.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Their open fermentation process help that then also?

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Uh it helps with the flavor. The yeast that you can allow to come in. The ones I've had that are like small craft, local like this. Because the air gets to it and helps. There's yeast within the air that can jump in there. You just don't know what it's gonna be. You don't know what strength it is, you don't know we there's no control with that. But I like that it allows something, something to happen. There's something happening, it allows something to happen. And then when a natural thing, and then when you add in the wood aspect, so the uh cypress wood used to be huge for fermentation tanks. They've stopped going to cypress wood and now mostly do metal because cypress wood is so hard to get and to use for fermentation tanks. Uh Makersmark uses for uh cypress wood. They use open air fermentation, very controlled in a building open air.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Well, I mean, you you think about your your moonshine guys, right? Yeah, they're they're out like you talk about, you know, people see the moonshiners show or whatever, but like back in the day, the moonshine, the whiskey that they made, they made it out in the open air. Their fermentation was in 55 gallon drums with a cover that was a plastic cover that just kept the bugs out, right? Like you got all of that open air and that's a flavor, though balance. No, but even so, that probably changed the chemical balance of what I'm doing. It's more natural compared to somebody who's doing a closed tank formation.

SPEAKER_05 24:27

But that brings up another point. I I can't think of any distilleries in England.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Not in England.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

Do you have Irish ones? Do you have Scotch ones? English distillers. There's even French ones, but I don't think there's any whiskey coming out of England.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Not that I know of. Or Britain. Yes, it's mostly gin.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

Other than Irish and Scotch, right? But they do do they do a lot of gin there. But yeah, but they don't do whiskey. They don't do whiskey. If they wanted whiskey, they'd get Canadian Club from Canada, right? They're the they're the they were the spirits for the king and queen, uh the royal family. So that's weird though. You think about it. It is strange to think about, but they're getting stuff from the UK. So probably not Irish and Scottish, but like well, they do some Scotch, but it's just barley.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

So it's just malted barley that they're getting from them.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

But when they say they're getting stuff from the UK, I don't think it's all from Scotch, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:16

No, the Scotch, the Scotland is only the the the P or sorry, the yeah, it would be peted barley at that point. Yeah, is for their peted bourbon. Right, right. That's the only thing, or their peted whiskeys is from UK on the UK, like so UK is making stuff, they're not stealing stuff.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

They're not I as far as I know.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

As far as I know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

I don't know. I don't think there's any such thing as a like a in like a whiskey from England or London, London, England. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 25:44

According to the Google, there are 55 registered English whiskey distilleries, 55. With 45 actively producing. So five of them are like, ah, so 45 of them are actually making whiskey.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Where's that called? Is anybody drinking it though? What is that called?

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Yeah, Cotswold Distillery.

SPEAKER_05 26:02

I have to find these. Cotswold is so UK Bimberish. Bimber distillery or the top two Bimber is like the name of the the Mc uh automaton in Fallout, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:14

It looks like Cotswold's is like the the more notable higher end okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I have to find this Cotswold.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

You never hear it again.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

I just want English, you just never hear about it.

SPEAKER_05 26:25

But they because English people drink scotch, it's so close. Yeah, that's what they drink. Like if you anytime you see a movie or something like other than like James Bon James Bond, he drinks a martini, but other than that, it's Scotch, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:36

George's would be another one. Have you heard of that? That's another high-end one they're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 26:40

But I've I even have on the shelf I have some French whiskey, but I don't have anything from England.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

So out of 45 distillers coming out of England, you've never heard of that's interesting. Maybe they don't export it.

SPEAKER_05 26:51

Sounds like another podcast series. That might be something to look into. The French would be interesting. Maybe they don't export it.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Oh, I've got a French for you. A French single malt. Yeah, they do close to that.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

The one that I have is actually a cognac finished single malt. One of the single malts I like.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

The thing that it brings me back to, CJ, you talk about moonshiners and the the open fermentation, yeah. That idea, right? I look at these big distilleries that now they do quote unquote open fermentation within buildings. Uh very limited space for air to get through buildings, kind of. Absolutely. Warehouses. Uh, the the other place that I went to that is similar in flavor to this was in Montana. And we're talking like shed barn style distillery, like ramshackle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

There's a there's enough space to get some we put cement down and then kind of put walls in the city. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Might be an old beat-down tractor in there somewhere. Most of the time they leave like the doors open because they're constantly going and out. But they've got five Cypress open air fermentation tanks that they let sit out in that area. And you try their stuff and you're like, wow, this there's there's just a deeper, darker flavor that comes out of this guy, something unique, something different. I look at that and I go, that had to be what beams started out as. That had to be what makers, Woodford, all the time.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

What most of these old distilleries started out as, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Absolutely. I look at that and I go, What are we doing wrong now? Is it wrong or is it just different?

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Because that's personal opinion. I would say wrong great things that came out of distillers, newer distilleries.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

Has technology advanced? Is it an old form of technology? Right. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

But with the old form of technology, there is a flavor that you get that you go, wow.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

It's a deeper, darker, richer flavor.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yes, it's a thinker. It's not an everyday drinker. This is like a, and maybe that's what they want. They want something like a moonshine. I just throw it back and be done, right? Or I just sip on and not have to worry about flavor. This is not an everyday drinker, no thinker. This is like, I take a sip and there is so much going on.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

You gotta let it sit a minute.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

You got you gotta wait and let it do its thing, and then go, okay, I think I'm ready to talk about this.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

This is very different from the last episode that we did where that one you really wanted to sip, and it was a very short making you want to come back for more. This is more of a you take a sip and you want to take a minute, two minutes to really process and let all that flavor and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

This is like the uninvited jest at Christmas. All eyes on that guy, yeah, right? And just lingering around. When are you gonna leave? Probably not for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

The walleye run was like you you take a sip and you go, I know exactly my mind right now what's happening, and I know what flavors I'm getting. This you drink and you go, Oh crap, what the hell am I drinking? Like, what just what did I just sit on? Yeah, what like it's it's not like a bad thing of like I gotta spit it out because I don't know what I just drink. This is like uh give me like five minutes and I can tell you what it works.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

It takes you a minute to it's like fight club. It takes you a minute to figure it out, and even then you gotta re you gotta revisit it a few times.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

I feel like that rye spice that comes with it though, makes you slow down.

SPEAKER_05 30:08

Oh, a thousand percent, makes you process. You can't speed up on this thing. You take a drink of a sip and you realize, like, hey, I'm overdoing it.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah, it was like you before when you took a sip to figure out what to smoke with.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

You're like, oh, you go take a sip, I was like, holy cow. What's up inside the face? Like, hey, chill out. Take a take a beat, you know what I mean? Just take it, take a few seconds, take a beat. I was like, Whoa boy, this is not for the faint, it's not for the faint of heart. I would say that this is a full proof. What do you think, Blake? Because this is this has got a lot of rye in it as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

It does, but I kind of like I said before, it's like it's to me. I mean, you can tell, like this is there's a lot of proof to this, but is that a bad thing? Oh, it's definitely not a bad thing, but I think with ries, I think, you know, the lower proof rise, it kind of maybe messes with my head, where you know, I have like a 90, 95 proof rye. I'm like, man, this is hotter. And it's like, no, it's just the spice of the rye, where this is like it's so high proof to where I'm like, oh, this is just proof, and I don't necessarily taste the rye hides behind the proof. Yeah, the rye hides behind the proof, and I think this is a very approachable, like higher proof, you know, whiskey. Without being like too like, oh, this is rye. Yeah, without being, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 31:22

Without being like, oh my gosh, because I think some of the spices and stuff are definitely getting uh mistranslated into proof in this one. Because normally with a rye, I really can taste those bready notes. And this one I think it is so high proof that I'm just tasting spice, spice, spice, spice, which I equate to a lot of people equate to proof. I can equate to proof as well.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

The bready notes are like a minute and a half later after your sip, and they start.

SPEAKER_05 31:46

Very much in the aftertaste, like eating banana bread and sitting for a minute, you still have that like in your palate. The banana bread lingers and lingers. Yeah, same thing. Or a good piece of rye bread with some butter. Yeah. Which is fantastic, by the way. A moment of silence for rye bread because I can't have it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

So do you think there's been a few distill or a few uh states that have played around with rye to say we have Maryland style, we have Pennsylvania style, we have now Empire Rye style.

SPEAKER_05 32:21

That's a very own type of rye.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Do you think we could start seeing this for bourbon? Different types of bourbon? It'd have to be at least 51% corn, right? And and they have to follow those rules.

SPEAKER_05 32:32

The thing is, there's already stipulations on what bourbon is. There's not really a whole lot of stipulations on what rye is. I'd agree with that. Now there's a stipulation on rye. You either have rye or you have imperial rye, right? So I really don't see how much more what you can do to bourbon that's going to make it more differentiate from what already it already is.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

I completely agree with that. It's like, I guess for rye, you still have that ability to try to make it unique. Where I think with bourbon, it's like, unfortunately or fortunately, we're kind of past that point. But with rye, I think you could kind of put those stipulations on and be like, hey, this is what our rye could be. And hey, if you've had a you know, a rye before you've had something that's you know, a heavy rye bourbon, this is something maybe a little bit different, right? Than what you're using.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

Because before rye was just more than 51% corn, right? You know what I mean? For the most part, that's really the only stipulation. And 51% rye? That's what I'm oh, I mean more rye than corn, is what I'm getting at. Um so that was just what constituted rye. So there was a place open for let's make rye specific. It's American single malt, same thing. They've been working on what is an American single malt. Right now, it's basically a lot of things. Eventually, if it becomes it's gotta be this, that, and the other, then it's gonna be this, that, and the other. And you're not gonna have American single malt, American single malt X. You know what I mean? You're not gonna have people going like, well, this is American single malt plus. No, it's either gonna be American single malt or not American single malt. You're either gonna have rye or this imperial rye, or you're gonna have bourbon. It's just what it is. They they've really become that by making this imperial rye stand out, they're the only ones I think at this point that can differentiate.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Well, you got like Pennsylvania style and like Maryland style. It's still rye, but it's like this type of rye.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

Imperial style rye. This is imperial rye. They've really kind of they've cornered a niche, and I think that they have it now. I don't think you're ever gonna see another like type of rye come out. It's either gonna be, I mean, it could be Pennsylvania style, but it's gonna be a rye, or you're gonna have imperial rye. I think that they did something that's very unique. You're not gonna see in bourbon, you're not gonna see in American single mall. They did something unique here. I think they took an opportunity at a time where there was an opportunity to be taken, and that's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Do you think you'll see more like different variations of rye come up as this comes on? Like you've got different variations of corn and barley and so many different do you think that as this progresses that we'll see different variations or different areas of rye?

SPEAKER_05 35:02

Technically, if you were to follow this algorithm, right, you could make your own rye. Say we made an Ohio rye, Ohioan rye, and it was well, at least so much of it has to be produced in Ohio. All of a sudden, we're the same thing as Imperial rye, but now we're in Ohio. You get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

They did leave the door open for a lot because it was at least 75% of the mash bill, not of the rye or of the grain, like 75% of the mash bill itself has to be from New York, has to be grown in New York.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

And that's the thing is if you just swap that out for Ohio, then all of a sudden you have a new rye. Will that make it stupid? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

But I mean, is there something to be said though? Because you see it in different areas with different corn and stuff like that, you know, different areas of the country, the corn tastes different, the barley tastes different, you know, even in Scott's. So, so being in Ohio or northern Indiana, is there a the climate and what we deal with every year? Will that change the flavor of the rye?

SPEAKER_05 36:06

It also comes down to is our rye better than that, you know what I mean, or not.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

So Indiana has its own rye already. I don't know if you guys know this. Do you know what Indiana rye are? They've already they've already labeled us this. And I say lay the the whiskey world has already uh they have unofficially officially labeled Indiana rye this 95 and five. No, that makes sense. Yeah, the Indiana ryes are 95 and five, but it doesn't say that they have to be made in Indiana, nope, just 95% rye and 5% barley, which is very similar to Canadian rye, but made a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_05 36:36

But you know what I mean? Canadian rye is very much just rye, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

100% rye, you know what I mean? Right. So I think it's interesting to look at all of that. Now, Chris, you made a point of we can't really go much farther, or if you do, it seems more like a gimmicky kind of feel. I mean, this itself is kind of gimmicky. Okay, so good. I'm glad you brought that up. Price tag with that idea of gimmicky, but this is also uh you you dive into the flavor after you just realize okay, it's Empire Rye, like it's kind of gimmicky, and then you taste and you're like, well, maybe, maybe they have something going for it.

SPEAKER_05 37:07

What would you pay for this? This is full flavored. Okay, so I'll tell you what I would pay for it, and I'll tell you what it's gonna, what it's going for. First of all, did we say this is does it say on the front seven years?

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Uh so at least three years is on the back, it should be, I believe. Don't want to look at the price stage.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Uh close your eyes, close your eyes. Oh, I closed I closed them. I closed them um age three years or more. Okay, at least three.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

Three years or more. This is a flavor bomb. I'm not gonna say it's not a flavor bomb. I'll tell you what I would pay for it, and I'll tell you what they're selling it for because it's imperial rye, right? This should be a $60 bottle. 65 max. It's very good. At $65, go get it. Go freaking get it. This is so great. You will buy it and buy it and buy it and buy it. And I think that that's a great market. But since it's Imperial Rye, I wouldn't be surprised if this is right around. I bet this is 90 plus. I bet this is somewhere between 90 and 100. Okay. Wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised? I was gonna say 80 to 80 to 90. You gotta add $30 to the hype, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:11

80 to 90 for you? Yeah, I I would say they're priceling this for 80 to 90. I feel like I probably wouldn't pay more than 65.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

I'd probably say it's just under 100. For what? What would you pay for? I think Chris hit it. Between 50 and 65 bucks, I think it's gold.

SPEAKER_05 38:31

Because this is, I mean, I don't want to diminish. This is a really powerful drink. It's great. But I just don't think, other than the hype, what do you what's going in here that's making it that expensive?

SPEAKER_02 38:42

I bet I bet you I wouldn't be surprised if it's right around that hundred dollar mark because of the because the marketing before I answer that, uh, because we we had a rye that we did for a uh barrel pick for the club. I know what we paid for it. 65 is what was going for, right? What would you after tasting it, our barrel pick, what would you expect to pay? Not what was the drink sold for? Yeah, what would you expect to pay for it?

SPEAKER_05 39:07

But see, I thought that that drank at a higher value. Maybe I should say, what do you think it could have sold for the most? I think that that's a that's around a hundred dollars. Okay, no problem, no problem, no problem. But we picked a really good bear bottle. I thought that that was a hundred dollar worth, uh, it was worth it. And it wasn't trying to be there was no hype involved, right? This is journeyman, this is just good stuff that was made right.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

So outside of the club, because I am not in the club and I wasn't part of the pick. For me, I would say that barrel pick was probably somewhere between 70 and 75 bucks for me that I would pay for it.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

I think that's very fair. I don't know if I would say as as high as Chris would go, but I completely agree with CJ, especially being a non-Rye person.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

And I think that that's a good price. There's a little bit of portion to you too that could be looking at it as a standpoint of I was part of this, this is a this that was our pick, which I think if I was part of it, 100%. I think it could go a little higher, $100 around there.

SPEAKER_05 40:08

But I think flavor alone is definitely at least at that, what you guys are talking about, at least. Because I mean, there might be a part of me that's that's sentimental, but you don't get a bottle with that flavor for for under 80 bucks. You just don't do it. You just don't look at Booker's. I mean, you just can't even touch it.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

With uh the reason I bring that up is this bottle sold it sells for about a hundred. There it is before tax, right? So 99.99.

SPEAKER_05 40:32

So right on the money. I would agree, but I think that that 30 per $30 of that is hype.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

There we go. I I think that this is this is if it didn't have the price tag on it and I tried it, I would say this is our journeyman barrel pick value. This is $70 to $75. That's what I would pay. Not not to say that the Empire Rye portion of it isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 40:56

It's the same amount of it's it's a flavor bomb just like Journeyman rye.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

That's what you're trying to say. I put more value into what does it taste like, what does it do for me, what does it do for my very subjective review, yeah, but also how will other people enjoy this? And I think for me, I think the barrel pick that you guys did, somebody is going to enjoy that a little bit more than what they're gonna enjoy this.

SPEAKER_05 41:29

Because there's a story behind it, or just the flavor of it. I think it's the flavor.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

Okay, the flavor of it. I think it's a little better flavor, it's a little more of a it's a little more of a story on the palette, but then also you have the story behind it of of you know guys that created something cool and they went out and they've done this podcast, and their podcast has been successful, and like that creates a dynamic too. But just on flavor alone, I feel like the barrel pick is better than what this is. I don't personally believe that this for me, this is a hundred dollar.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

I think on the journeyman pick, there's a lot more peaks and valleys, right? And I talked about I talk about that a lot, and and there is there's a lot more there's a lot more breaks. This one is full flavor, it doesn't have that many breaks, peaks and valleys. So, right there that you're already talking about a lesser value. Also, with what you get with Journeyman, for me personally, subjectively, is you get the added, which this is missing, dusty corn, dusty barn. You don't get the dusty barn, not from this.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Oh, from this? Oh, you definitely do not get it. I completely agree with Chris on that.

SPEAKER_05 42:38

I feel like it's an undertone for me. For me, a guy that likes that, that craves that, that loves the body.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

I think the dusty barn comes in too late for this to be a prominent flavor.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

For me, that's that's that's an aspect that I pay for, right? And it's missing in this. So already this is at a at a negative from the journeyman bottle for me. That's not to say that this is bad. No, no, not at all. That's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that's why I would still value whether I was a part, I mean, I'd like to say whether I was a part of the pick or not. If I were to try Journeyman, the pick this the barrel pick that we did for the club, I would go, hey, how much is this? This is $100, $9.99.99 or whatever it is. Yeah, I'm gonna buy it. Whereas this, if they were like, this is $65, I'd be like, yes, $65. But if this was like the same price as Journeyman, and there was two bottles there, I'd go Journeyman because it's got extra value. Whereas this is lacking some of those values that Journeyman has. They're both full flavored, both of them full flavored, but you're you're lacking certain values that Journeyman has that this does not. This does not have dusty corn. This does not have all the peaks and valleys.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

And if you're not into the peaks and valleys and you're not into the dusty corn, this might be your thing. You might go, you might go this over the other. Yeah, there's some people that don't like to be challenged. I could definitely see the barrel pick from Journeyman's going 90. I could see that I bought other stuff from Journeyman's that I paid. I, if I think about it, I bought other stuff from Journeyman's that are around 90. And yeah, I would buy that bottle that you guys had over those. So yes, I could see it 100% at 90.

SPEAKER_05 44:14

I tried the popcorn. Oh, I thought the popcorn from Journeyman was going to be amazing. It was really good. But our bottle was way better than popcorn. And the same thing with the Raven out there. I love the Raven. Our pick was better. Our pick was better. I've tried a lot of Journeyman's.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

The Raven, in my opinion, the bottle is the best part of what it is. It is. I love the bottle.

SPEAKER_05 44:35

But Not a King Rye, I love that. The high-end one you get was 80 bucks. Ours is better than that. So it's worth the hundred dollars. We got it for less than. What a freaking deal. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 44:46

So the reason I bring all that up for this very last bottle, it's the most expensive one that we have had in this series. We talk about the three use. Does price tag play a part in making you unknown?

SPEAKER_03 44:59

I think so. A big point. Because I guess I look at this price point. You look at $100. Now compare that to like a booker's. That's a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_04 45:09

Well, and this is this is peaked value for this.

SPEAKER_05 45:13

Yeah. You're right. If you don't know, and here's what it comes down to when we talk about this stuff, these hypotheticals, we get to try it and then decide. You're the guy that doesn't get to try it, and you're in a store and you're looking at a shelf and you see this bottle for 99 bucks, and you see bookers for 99 bucks. I mean, you're gonna go for bookers. And I think even if you've never had bookers, you would go for bookers because you got the name recognition and all that other stuff. I just think that it at that point you struggle. Now, if you if anybody tried this, and I I guarantee there's people that have tried this and say this is 80 bucks, this is an 80 bottle. This is what I don't think anybody's gonna say this is a hundred dollar bottle.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_05 45:54

Although I don't want to say that this isn't this is very, very, very, very, very, very good. I just think we're paying for the marketing because it's imperial. Screw the Imperial Rye.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

It's a one-to-year release, too.

SPEAKER_05 46:06

Yeah, screw that. Like, just give me, like, just put it in a bottle and say what it is. This is a New York rye, it's our style, $65, $75. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:17

I think the hype on this comes from the it's a one-to-year release, it's something that's harder to find. Kind of like the OCD, where we all agreed that that makes it a little bit more of a people are gonna pay a little bit more.

SPEAKER_05 46:31

It's marketing.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

But the Barker's Mill, if I had those two side by side and I had tried both of them, I'm buying the Barker's Mill every day.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

But they're all different, but yeah, you're right. But they're different.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

They're different styles, but yet price point for me. I am all about price point. I am a cheapskate, I know that, but like for me, it's all price for what I get.

SPEAKER_05 46:52

You don't care if 85% of the rye came from the body. I don't care where it came from.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Yeah, you don't care where it came from. What's in the bottle is good and it drinks good and it's good flavor, and other people would like it, and it's something that I can share and have a conversation over, right?

SPEAKER_05 47:11

I don't want to save the trees. Okay. That's what it comes down to. I do not give when people are like, if you spend this money to buy this, it will say, I don't give a crap about the trees. The trees are the product, I want the product, and I really don't give a crap about the trees. Absolutely. Let's be honest, they're gonna be here until I'm dead, and then after that, it's not my freaking problem. And I don't care about my kids or grandkids, they can deal with it.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

They can plant more trees.

SPEAKER_05 47:32

They can plant more trees. I don't give a crap about that stuff. I'll be completely honest with you. What I do care about is flavor and value. These things I care about. If I can get the same flavor from rye that was that was brought in from Michigan to New York and it's cheaper, do it. Like I as long as it's the same flavor. Now, if you're saying you can't get the same amount of flavor unless it's New York rye, which I have a hard time believing, okay, I'll pay the money. Sure, absolutely. But that's that's where I'm at with do they have a rye that's not imperial? I bet it's 65 bucks, and I bet it's about the same damn quality.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

But everything's about 100 for them. It's a pricey thing. Yeah, so they they they go up there in price.

SPEAKER_05 48:08

I think you're paying for the fact that they're the imperial rye.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Do you guys ever feel like that? Okay, for instance, Nick, you said that this distillery, everything about what they have, everything that they have is about around $100, right? Do you feel like that makes people gravitate towards that more because they think that it's a better product because of the price?

SPEAKER_02 48:29

I would say yes, if they boasted that on the bottle.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 48:33

So take, for instance, OCD. On the back, they talk about their story. They talk about, you know, without hinting or without saying or from old crow, we we mention Doc Crow, we mention old.

SPEAKER_05 48:46

But if you connect that to old crow, all of a sudden you think there's a value system.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

If you look at Kings County, there is nothing, there's not a thing on that bottle.

SPEAKER_04 48:53

It's a very generic looking bottle. It reminds me of a Bardstown bottle.

SPEAKER_05 48:58

Yes, it's understated, which is a good thing for them.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

They don't rely on the story, they don't rely on this is what makes us wonderful. I'm gonna tell you it's an Imperial Imperial rye, but in Chris's defense, I thought that was the name. I don't know that that's it. That means it's a classification. Yeah, I don't know that that's special. I don't know that you're from I look at the bottle. I showed you.

SPEAKER_04 49:22

If you're standing at the liquor store and you're looking at this bottle compared to some of the others, you're not gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

I'm not gonna look at that and go, oh, that's worth $100 because there's nothing to it. It looks like a moonshine bottle that I threw on a uh a label and said, our stuff is good. It's gonna take a while for you to get there.

SPEAKER_05 49:39

And I don't want anybody listening, like this is it's very, very, very like it's very it's just not a hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

If we're talking like what draws me to it, there's nothing on the bottle that draws me to it. I have to hear about it.

SPEAKER_05 49:51

And so you'd be so hard-pressed not to hear this review and buy this bottle for a hundred dollars, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:56

But if I had no history, I had no no one from CJ's point. If I had no one coming up to me and saying, hey, this is what it is, or it's from, what it's special about. If I didn't have that knowledge, I'd look at the bottle like I've always done before I learned and you went, $100 for a glass, a clear glass bottle with a thin band on the bottom that says, This is our name. Now it looks like I came out of my garage and put this on a bottle.

SPEAKER_05 50:22

Now that we've tried, if I've tried this and I know there's a buddy of mine who has the money to spend and likes this type of stuff, I would recommend it. And he would buy and he would pay it and he would like it. But for the average person looking on the shelf, it's just too high. Yes. And at that point, you lower the price, you will sell more bottles.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

It's just basic business. I do have a question though. Hypothetically, let's say we all lived in New York, with this being New York for like, hey, this is New York, New York, New York.

SPEAKER_05 50:49

If you live in New York, you have so many things to be proud of, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Oh, I'd be proud of this. You think you're paying hundreds? Do you really care that much about this?

SPEAKER_05 50:56

Because you're you're already proud of all the this pizza place and that thing and this thing.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

It's expensive. I think it would sell. If you figure that into it, the the $30 bottle, it becomes a $50 bottle. You're right, right.

SPEAKER_05 51:13

That's true. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 51:15

It be it becomes that, it goes from $60. Maybe it's harder. It's a harder pillow.

SPEAKER_05 51:19

80-wins to swallow than New York, than people from New York.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Potentially. So, all that to say. I mean, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Yeah, that's a great. So, this is a fantastic conversation while I'd have to say I I like it.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

I just think it's I do like it. I just think it should be a little bit cheaper. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

There's a reason why I picked all these bottles or helped pick all these bottles for this podcast. Because, like Blake, you had mentioned, uh, we're going unnamed, unknown. Like, is it really gonna be that good? We're talking like, are we talking Kesslers? Are we talking a little bit better than Kesslers at this point, right? Yep. We went through all these bottles, we went through different price tags for all these bottles. Chris and I really like the craft world. We like the craft distilleries, the unknowns, the unnamed, the ones that might potentially be good. I don't know if I can speak for Blake and CJ on that. That's why I have this question. We've walked through four different ones, four different price tags, four different variants, different states, price tag alone. Should that be a factor when you look at bottles and go, I haven't heard about you, but is there potential? Should I grab it?

SPEAKER_03 52:31

I don't think I'd pay any more for that. Again, when I think of something like this, I think of would I rather roll the dice? If I hadn't have tried this before, would I rather roll the dice on this or bookers? And it's a no-brainer. I think a lot of people would say, I'm gonna pick the bookers all day.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

So price tag does play a point in your mind, but lower. I I need lower price tag.

SPEAKER_04 52:50

Name name value because of bookers. Uh well, I I like bookers, just the he's had it. Yeah, he hasn't had this. But if you if you hadn't had this and you hadn't had bookers and they were sitting beside each other on their site, there's uh bookers are storied, right?

SPEAKER_05 53:06

Exactly. They've they've sold themselves. This has not sold itself.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

It comes in a cooler bottle, too, a cooler presentation. Exactly. So he's the one in crap.

SPEAKER_04 53:15

You would pay for bookers. I will get problems.

SPEAKER_05 53:18

But if the night before he goes to the store, there's a news article on the best bourbon, the hardest bourbon to get the bourbon gate, right? And it was Imperial rye, and he went to the store and he saw this. He wouldn't just buy one, he would buy all of them. Yeah, because that's how humans are. You know what I mean? All of a sudden, this is valuable. I'm gonna get it. I could either buy it or sell it or I trade it or whatever. Like, I'm gonna have it. That's what happened to Pappy's. So this needs hype, is what you're saying. Yeah, it could it could use hype.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

I mean, it could use hype, but is it gonna get the hype? And I'm gonna say no.

SPEAKER_05 53:50

I would agree. I remember buying bookers one time on six sixty-five dollars on sale. That's cool. Can't touch that on sale because it wasn't selling. Because people were like, F, that's too much money for way too much. Now all of a sudden, people are giving their arm, leg, and testicle for it.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

And their firstborn, and their secondborn. It's just gone.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

It's gotten ridiculous, you know what I mean? And people, there's people that will not like bookers that will buy bookers because it's bookers. That's stupid. That's ass. 100% stupid. People like it because it's popular. This is very, very, very, very, very, very, very good. I think it the price is just a little high for because of the because of the marketing. But the thing is, you buy Hudson's baby bourbon, which is very good as well. That's in the $60 range. 607 60 70. This is better than that. This is better than that. I feel like this is $30 too high. This is just very good. It's just $30 too high.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

I agree. So, CJ, would you say price is a factor when you look at bottles no namers, unknown craft versus others? Would you say price is a factor for you and deciding, am I going to take the risk on that? 100%. Okay, so both of you guys say price is a factor, right? What is the price range that you are you would say I'm comfortable spending this to this range on a no-namer?

SPEAKER_04 55:08

If I've never heard about the bottle and I've never seen it before, right, I struggle, but I'm a cheapskate, I struggle to pay $50 for a bottle because I'm going, I'm going, I don't know if I'm gonna like this. I don't know if it's something anybody else is gonna like, and I'm gonna spend $50 and it's gonna sit in the back of my cabinet. On the other hand, I'll go to watershed and I'll buy almost anything that they have right down to their generic four year.

SPEAKER_05 55:38

Because you because you trust the brand.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

I trust the brand, I know what it is, and I know that anybody else that comes to my house, I'm pulling something out from watershed at some point in that night because I want them to try it, because it's great. Journeyman's same way. I had a Martin store pick from Journeyman's that was dried banana chips all the way through, and it was unique and it was amazing. Martin's is a Indiana-based, northern Indiana-based supermarket. Um, it's like your Harding's or your what do you have around here? We've got Kroger too. It's like your your in-town, in-home, like grocery store.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

Giant Eagle, quite sure, Mark.

SPEAKER_04 56:25

But they did a store pick. It was great, it was wonderful. It's something that if I buy it at Journeyman's, it's not gonna be the Martin store pick and it's going to be different.

SPEAKER_05 56:35

Well, the that that what plays a role in this uh also is being able to taste something before you buy it. Because I am I am a and I've been doing this for years. I'm a $65 or less guy when it comes to no namers. Unless I get to try it in the store, and that might change my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

I have paid over $100 for something, or unless I've heard somebody else that I trust their palette and I want to try.

SPEAKER_05 56:59

I've paid $120 for uh for a bottle of bourbon that I had no idea, but I got to try it first. And I was like, this is worth it.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Maybe I'm a trusting person, but if somebody that I know that I know that has a great palette that understands whiskey and tries this stuff on a regular basis, and they go, Hey, this is a great bottle. You should pick it up. I think it's worth the money. I'll take the risk.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

So CJ buys all the bottles we say go for 100%.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

There you go. Okay. Who was it? Who was it that was on the podcast earlier? I think it was Cody that said, I've never bought a bad bottle because of you two.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

That's that's a fair point. Because we always say what's bad. That's I praise. And I'm not afraid to say, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_04 57:38

Right. And I I don't mind buying a bottle that somebody says is great, and I get it and go, eh, I didn't think that was that good. Somebody else may like that. If I buy a bottle that I've had no talk about, have no idea, it's a no-namer bottle to me, and I buy it and I don't like it, I go, Oh, how am I gonna get rid of this?

SPEAKER_03 58:02

Exactly. And I think to Chris's point, I have been to a couple like really nice liquor stores down in Kentucky where they have a whole bunch of like single barrel picks, but they're kind of no-namers, but they're like, hey, if you want a taster, it's a dollar. We got 10 single barrel picks, and then at the end, hey, if you like one of these, and you take you know seven tastings, I'll take seven dollars off the price. So it's like that gives you the ability to try it. Yeah, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_04 58:27

I'd even spend a couple bucks just to try a bottle before I buy it.

SPEAKER_05 58:30

Because if I'm out five bucks at the end of the day and I don't like it, it makes the sellability, and I think people underestimate Ohio especially underestimates that the sellability of that is huge. Like you give a little, you get a lot, you know. And you're always gonna go back to that place because they treated you right, and you got to try it beforehand. Underrated values.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Yes, bingo. Maybe, maybe this is a better way of putting it. All this to say price does take a uh it's a factor in this. But the ending question, if you see a bottle that's in like I I don't know that looks interesting, is it worth it to try to find a dis the distillery to taste it at before you buy it?

SPEAKER_05 59:09

Not if I have to drive five hours if you can. It's gotta be close, right? I'm not driving to New York to try this stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Right. So it might be expensive, but at that point, you're like, until I can try it, not worth it.

SPEAKER_05 59:22

I mean the gas money. Doesn't mean it's not good. The gas money alone is gonna like you might as well just pay 100 bucks. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 59:27

Like, and that's the problem too. Sometimes you go to these distilleries and then you're like, oh, I want to try a porn. They're like, you know, 15, 20 bucks of porn. You're like, I could have just gone to a bar and tried it, try it there.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

I think that's the beautiful thing about trying what you guys are doing here too, though, with the podcast, right? You listen to this podcast and you hear about some of these bottles, and there are bottles in this series that you're gonna go, man, if I find that, I want to try that because of this that they said about it. People are gonna hear this and they're gonna say, that could be up my alley the way they're describing it. I'm gonna go ahead and buy it. Or they're gonna look at it and go, I might buy this bottle and this bile first because that seems like a little better fit for me price point. I mean, and that's the thing, that's the that's the curse of also doing something like this, right? You can make it or break it for a bottle for somebody.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:16

But at least it gives people an idea of what four people got in a room and talked about.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:20

There are other people that are not gonna, there are other people that don't care. They're gonna hear about how bold flavor this is, how rice spices is, how great this is, and they're gonna go, uh, the extra 30 bucks for me to try it. I don't care, I'm gonna try it. And they may love it, and that's fine. This is a great bottle.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:37

This is a very great bottle.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:38

It's a great bottle. Don't hear what we're not saying, right? I think for me personally, it's $30 too high in that they have it priced at. But but that doesn't mean that it's that it's not that it's not something that I mean, I would I would revisit this.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:52

Dude, if I had the money to blow, right? Would I even be talking about this? No, I would just buy it. What I know I'm overpaying, yeah. But I have the money, you know what I mean? And it's good. But if you're like pinching pennies, you know, maybe this isn't the one.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

How do you feel? I mean, again, like this is really good. It's really good, but I mean, again, is it a hundred dollars? Good, yeah. That's a that's a big, big question part, but I guess for not being a big rye guy, this is very delicious.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Solid for what 75 bucks? Oh, 100. Where are you set, Nick? Before I tried these, before I took the risk, not worth a price tag. After trying it, I go, I could do this. I won't buy it very often.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

No, but there's the difference. You, after trying it, would spend the money again.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

But I had to take the risk to try it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:39

Sure. So that tells you, like, it's gonna depend on what your flavor profile is and what your palate likes and where it what you're into.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

And I almost think too, let's say if Watershed did this, but it was all Ohio This is Ohio. Watershed could get this flavor. Oh my gosh. I think I might pay the a hundred bucks for it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

I'm from Indiana, I'd pay a hundred dollars for a hundred dollars for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

I think that I think that makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:02

Yeah, I think all in all, but a good series. You know, this it's a good series, but I feel like it's a continual conversation of trying to figure out the the three U's, right? Is it worth it?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

After is it undervalued? Is it over uh uh underappreciated?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

Yeah, when you when you try to look at that, it's a continual conversation, not just because of those things, right? But because there's so many new things coming out. Trying to figure out would I rather, to Blake's point, get a buffalo trace, or would I rather risk it for the biscuit, so to speak, with this? Like let's go trying to figure out what what do you spend your money on and what do you go after? What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:41

I think in the three U's, this is this is not undervalued. I would agree. I think this is slightly overvalued.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

I feel like this is uh un unknown. I think it's I think it's unknown.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:53

And it's and it could be underrated, it's just the value, yeah, the value knocks it down a few picks. That's what it comes down to. It's just a little steep for most people's budget for something they haven't tried and based on only record uh recommendations. That's my thing. This is $75 all day long.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

This would be selling.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

Go buy this. Like, go buy this. It's worth the risk. Try it because it's definitely worth the risk at that point.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

That was a great conversation. Great series. We'll uh hopefully see everyone next time. Thanks to CJ and uh Blake for coming on.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:29

Thank you guys for having us. Yeah, enjoyed being here for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskey tasterspumma.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.