Jack Daniels Old No. 7!

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Hello while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Oh, I should have let you pop this one, Steve. That's all right. Selection of ripe Virginia tobaccos enhanced with the perfect mixture of Maduro cigar leaf to provide an alluring spice, the suggestion of richness, a great cigar, a creamy smoke, a little Cyprian lacia, rounds out the edges and smooths with fine oriental tobaccos that fill up the gaps. Complex and full flavored, yet very gentle on the tongue. Robusto is a perfect afternoon coffee with as a delight finish with a wonderful meal. Or a stout steward companion throughout the day. So I think this kind of sounds like it would fill in what Jack Daniels might like. And I've wanted to try this since I got it. So a little bit of Maduro cigar leaf. So how long has this been sitting? A couple years. A couple years? Yeah, and this is GLP's. So GL Peace comes out of the same factory as Cornell and Deal. But Peace is the blender, and he is a master blender. Dude knows what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

So I find the tobacco world, especially pipe tobacco world, to be very fascinating. Because it's one of the few, I don't want to say vices, it's one of the few like special like craft world things that you can actually blend your own stuff, and people get excited about that. Yeah. Like you guys at your own home could blend you know different ones and be like, this is well, people they sell blending kits.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

People do it, yeah. Whiskey, not so much, right? And I think, well, part of that is legality. You can't make your own whiskey at home, right? But blending, you know what I mean? And yeah, I think the whiskey equivalent sort of is infinity bottles, a little bit. I mean, I do know people that do infinity blends where they'll they'll take extras out of their tins and sprinkle it in and just make their own infinity blend.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Yeah, or my own crossovers. If I have leftover English and leftover aromatic, right? I have a crossover blend coming.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

But I also feel like within the tobacco world, the base is traditionally all the same, right? You're talking maybe different types of tobacco leaf, but it's pretty much all across the board.

unknown 2:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

This is the kind of the same.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

There are lots of similarities between the whiskey world and the pipe world in terms of that. Like you have your Virginia's, you have your Pariques that are your rye.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

You have certain tobaccos that are bases, and then you have condiment tobaccos that that that you add to for for different recipes. But the the the base tobaccos are uh would be like what corn is the equivalent of like what corn is to a bourbon.

unknown 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

The bulk of a bourbon is corn, right? So same thing with with tobaccos. You have the balls, the bulk of it's gonna be Burley or Virginia, something like that. And then you have your cavendishes and your latichias and your periques, those are all condimental tobaccos that are made up from the bases, their processes, not whole leaves. And a little bit goes a long way. You can add five percent perik to something, and it is heavily perique. Sometimes you'll have even less than five percent. People add like two percent to something, yeah. Because you also have blends out there that are kind of like mellow corn, where it's 100% corn whiskey. You have tobacco blends out there that are all like some people smoke all black cabbage. I've never understood that, but some people do it. Um, I've smoked full burlies many times. Uh, you have full burley flakes, uh, full Virginia flakes. People do it. I like it. Uh, there's something to be said for smoking a tobacco.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah, and I think once you get into it and you do start blending your own stuff, which I think is a natural progression. I think a lot of people that get into pipes will try to make their own blends. So I would almost put it in the category of cocktails, more than more than maybe whiskey straight, and that you're you're kind of coming up with your own combination. I also think it's interesting that for today's world, there's very few people that take a pipe to their lunch break or like take it to work with them. So you don't really have a common man's version anymore in the pipe world. I mean, you kind of do. You still have Prince Albert in a can.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

But whether people are smoking that all day, every day is they're like people used to smoke pipe like people used to smoke cigarettes. Like, exactly. I smoke this all day, every day, you know. Like Ben Crosby always, always had a pipe. Yeah. So he needed something like Prince Albert, where it was uh not too expensive, not too cheap, not too flavorful, but a good everyday no-thinker. You know, and that's what Ben Crosby smoked. A lot of people always because I've done some research, and you were talking about his Halloway blend. They've also done Krooner, which is more of a specialty blend that he blended himself. He had the tender box made for him, and that's mostly a burly blint. And the same thing with Halloway, it's mostly a burly blint.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

And they were drinking old number seven, yes, Jack Daniels, old number seven. JD, get old Jack Daniels. There's this thing that Chris decided, and that was we need to talk about sour mash. Yeah, yeah, and I don't disagree. No, it's uh more common than I what people it's it's by far the most common.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Like uh I uh most people use a sour mash. There's not very many people that use a sweet mash, which is the alternative. Anything that doesn't say what it is is a sour mash for the most part, with with very few exceptions. Really, the only people that are like really advertising or going for a sweet mash is Wilderness Trail. Wilderness Trail uses a sweet mash, but pretty much everyone else does a sour mash.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

And Jack Daniels, not just Jack Daniels, I would say most most Tennessee whiskies, most Tennessee whiskies are very proud to put on their label sour mash. Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

And so they kind of did the same thing that Tito's did in the vodka world, and then they they threw gluten-free on the front, and now everyone was like, oh, you know, Jack Daniels did the same thing, they threw what everyone is doing on the front and made it theirs. Yesterday I was doing a tasting for a watershed, and what I do during that is always when I see somebody with Tito's, is I stop them to let them know that watersheds made in Ohio have won the same awards as Tito's and it's five bucks cheaper. So go with it. And on multiple times, people have asked me, is it also gluten-free? And I said, Oh my god, all vodka is. Sorry, buddy. All is all vodka is Tito's put on the label, that's why they won. JD is the same thing with Sour Mash. They put it on the label, and that's why everyone thinks it's something special.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Gun to your head, Sour Mash whiskey. People are gonna say Jack Daniels. Yeah, exactly. Yep, or just Tennessee whiskey. Like I said, Tennessee really started putting on the front as if it was something special about their process.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I was gonna say it's almost like their uh way, because Tennessee whiskey is bourbon. It's technically bourbon, it's bourbon with one extra step. Yep. But they can't, they don't want to call themselves bourbon. They really want to make themselves. And so I think Tennessee whiskey went on that trail of okay, we're we're gonna put Tennessee whiskey, but we're also gonna boldly put sour mash. So you're gonna pair Tennessee whiskey is sour mash. Bourbon doesn't do sour mash, just Tennessee whiskey, which is super interesting.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Yeah, well, for so long, people would say Jack Daniels is not bourbon because it's not made in Kentucky. And I'm like, no, no. Sadly, that's not how it works. That's not how that works. For so long, people use a thing of it's not made in Kentucky. People still do. Yep. It's not made in Kentucky, it's not working. Like, hold on, hold the phone.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Another thing I'm all the time when I'm doing tastings, if I say that this is a bourbon, but it's made in Ohio, it can't be bourbon, it's not allowed to be. So no, it can be, it's not a state thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Kentucky wanted it to be. But I mean, you can't talk about, and we'll get into it. You can't talk about Jack Daniels without talking about how storied it is, and then all the pop culture and the I think we've done things to cheapen it uh in the minds of people, but we've also done things to elevate it. It's just it's one I think it's one of those only brands that's out there that people will look at it and think of it as high-end, and also people will look at it and think of it as cheap junk.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

I think at its time, at its heyday, it was the drink. Like it was premiere, it was quality, this is this is high-end quality stuff. And then during the boom, it became cheap stuff. Like this is Jack and Coke. Yeah, exactly. This is a mixer, this is bottom of the shelf, this is not in plastic, but a step up from that, you know, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

This is a well drink. A lot of the pop culture did that because they use it's such an iconic bottle, they used it in so many uh movies and and stuff and and shows, and usually it's around somebody who's like pissed drunk, you know what I mean? And it just you get this connotation of that's what you drink to get pissed drunk, you know what I mean? And bums or drinking. It's a drinker's drink. Yeah, and uh, it's a it's an alcoholic's drink, you know what I mean? And uh I I think that that we've done it a disservice in that case.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

But if you go back and look back, like you said, there's so many iconic people that Jack Daniels was their thing. I mean, we'll talk more about Frank Sinatra, but most of the rat pack, most of that time period is like that's Jack Daniels period.

unknown 9:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

They were they were up there because Jack Daniels, we've talked about Jack Daniels' history itself, and it's a very colorful history, maybe that's the best way of putting it. Because there's different things that uh different parts of it that people want to say this happened or that happened, and which is really true, we we don't really know. But it's interesting that it got its start around slavery time, but didn't really take off in popularity until kind of that 70s.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Which I think that that's a time period thing. It's just that's when whiskey took off. And so, and then the right people held it in their hands to to make it make it really go. They were the one of the first ones to use celebrities to get their name out, really, and so yeah. I mean, having Frank Sinatra holding that in his hand and always having it with him, he was one of the first influencers in that way. Like, you know, Frank drinks this, yeah, exactly. And so suddenly it's it's something that everyone wants to drink.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

And Chris has talked about this too. Uh, everyone wanted that that smooth drinking kind of thing. Why do you think this one took off and others didn't with the idea of this is smooth charcoal filtering?

SPEAKER_02 11:08

I think that one, it was a marketing thing with the charcoal filtering and and talking about that, adding a layer of smoothness that comes with it. And then the other part of it is I think the right celebrities held it, and that is what made it take off because you wanted to drink the same thing that Frank Sinatra was drinking. These iconic photos, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

If I were to say, let's film a black and white, a new R black and white film right now, and Steve bellies up to the bar and takes off his fedora and orders a shot, the bartender's gonna grab a bottle of Jack Daniels and pour that shot, and it's gonna look freaking awesome in black and white.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Freaking awesome. The labels black and white, and also they changed up the shape, it has that squared look, that square shape that uh makes the bottle itself iconic. And I don't think anyone else was really doing that then. All their bottles, all the bottles pretty much look the same.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Yeah, it's a great bottle shape. But then with the way the neck comes out, it's a little rope like robust in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

And so now you can take off the label, and if you just need to show that you're you have a whiskey because you don't want to you can't have a label in in movies or whatever, they didn't buy the rights, but they just needed a a bottle to make sure that they know that this is a whiskey, they're gonna grab a Jack Daniels bottle, and people will know it's Jack Daniels, exactly, and so now they're getting the advertising without the name just because of the bottle shape. They've done a good job of making a timeless piece, yeah. Yeah, and they like whoever was in charge of their marketing at the time killed it. Like they just they got it in the right hands at the right time that made sure that it took off. And so, like we talked about before, I don't think it was flavor that people were necessarily going for. I mean, even Sinatra, when he drank it, like how he drank it was two fingers, three cubes, and a splash of water.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

It's pretty watered down at that point, pretty damn watered down. That's a cocktail at that point, and it's already starting at 80.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah, it's just an 80-proof. So, yeah, it's smooth, but everything was at that time, especially by the time you added a lot of people added ice and or water or whatever. So it's smooth no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

For me, it is just uh one of those staple quintessential bottles, uh right up there with wild turkey, up there with with uh um things like that. It's just it always, always, always a bar would not be complete without a bottle of old number seven, period, in my opinion. You have to have one, you have to have a bottle of Jack Daniels. But also, also, we'll talk about the flavor too in a little bit. But this is one that I, you know, drank like everybody does and had an idea about it, and then got into bourbon and forgot about it, and then reintroduced myself to it. And now I appreciate it a lot for what it is and how it is distinct. It's not like every other. If you think that Jack Daniels just tastes like a regular ho-hum, every other bourbon out there or whiskey out there, you're wrong. It has its own distinct characteristics, and I like it. I like it quite a bit. After trying so many different things and coming back to it, I have an appreciation for Jack Daniels that I never had before.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

It's not a complex drink. There are things about it that make it special, but it's not complex.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

No, and that's what makes it such a great mixer, and they lean into that in a daily drinker, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And so, I mean, you can buy Jack and Coke pre-made now. Like, Jack is not afraid of the colour.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

They come out with their own cans of Jack and Coke, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, their their specialty like uh Christmas gift sets or whatever have have like can-shaped glasses and stuff. So they know what they are in terms of that. Well, I'm not a mixed drink guy, but that actually is delicious. Oh, yeah. Jack and Coke is just actually good. And there is something about Jack that makes it better than other just other bourbons or other whiskeys with coke. With Coke. So I don't know what necessarily what that is, other than it's kind of a skip drink anyway.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Every whiskey is gonna have, and I think the way where it's made and how it's made, and we'll talk about the charcoal filtering and all that stuff too. But I do think that it has its own distinct flavor profile, even distinctly different from other Tennessee whiskies, like uh Dickle. Daniels and Dickle do not taste the same. No, they don't have the same. They I think there's the there's similarities. There's similarities different. If you were to pour them side by side, you would tell the difference.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Now, sour mash. What are we talking here? They're proud of it, they're loud and proud about it, but what does it actually do?

SPEAKER_02 15:37

So, all sour mash is is similar to sourdough bread. It has the same idea. You're taking a starter, something that you already have, and starting a new batch off of the old. So in Sourmash whiskey, they take their their mash is continuous and they will continue to use the mash to start the next round.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

What that does is it just a portion of yeah, just a portion of yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

They'll take just a piece of sour a piece of mash, put it into the new set that kick starts the yeast and helps it move forward fast. So its purpose for whiskey in particular is that it's safer because you're kickstarting the yeast, the yeast doesn't have a chance to grab on to bad bacteria. And so it's more it's it's there's a lot of sanitary benefits to sour mash because those early periods of the yeast is when you can get a lot of bacteria and have it go bad. So this using the previous mash kind of skips that first step and that makes it healthier and more sanitary, which is why everyone uses it. That's the primary benefit for like whiskey distillers, is that you you don't have to worry about contamination near as much. It also helps with uniformity. You're using the previous batch, so because of that, your new batch is going to taste very similar. You don't have to worry about alterations. So that's the benefit to sour mash. Your other version is sweet mash, which is when you don't use anything previous and you're starting from scratch every time. The downside to that is that, like I said, that there's that first stage of the yeast latching on to everything, where if it latches onto any bacteria, you've ruined your badge. So that step is is there for sweet mash. So you have to you have to be careful and you have to watch it and you have to kind of baby it at the beginning. So there's a lot a lot more manual work to do. After that step, you're good, but you have to really watch at the beginning. The benefit to it is you have a lot more creative ability, you can do a lot more, and you have a lot more control over what the final product is going to taste like. Because if you use a previous badge, then you have to kind of trust whatever that is to make the next one. So it makes them all the same. But if you're looking to create something different or to have different variations in your bottles, you don't want that. You want the sweet mash so you can it gives you more control.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

All very technical.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, it's it's technical, but basically, a a vast majority, any big name people, all use a sour mash. Like, is it the the one person that's not using sour mash and is really leaning into the sweet mash is is wilderness trail. They're really going going hard into the sweet mash world. So is uh hard truth. Hard truth, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Hard truth is uh sweet mash. There, that's their that's their thing, is they they're good, they're good with the sweet mash.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

And I feel like it's not like Jack Daniels was like pioneering the sour mesh, but they they were doing something that had been used in the hills of Tennessee for time after time that was tried and true and just became a brand, a company at that point. But I think they were pulling from guys that have been making whiskey in the hills of Tennessee forever. So it wasn't like it was a new thing. I mean, I think aging it in barrels was probably the new thing for them because they were used to just making moonshine out of it.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

But yeah, it reminds me of do you guys ever watch uh Mad Men? Yeah, oh yeah. So that that first scene when he's he's talking to the tobacco companies and he's talking through it. Lucky strike, yeah, and and they were like, you know, now we have to put this warning on our stuff, and and nobody's gonna smoke something that's gonna give you cancer, and now that has to be on there. And he's like, All right, well, how do you make it? And they mentioned toasting. Great, let's put it on there. That this is toasted. They're like, Well, so is everybody else, yeah. But you put it on the label, but you put it on the label, yeah. So this is the same thing. It's that they put it on the label, and it became a specialty thing, even though it really isn't, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

It became um man, everyone looks at Jack Daniels and like, oh, it's so sweet. It's it's it's so sweet. And the reason it's sweet is because it's sour mash, it's because it's sour mash. Like that, that's the thing. It's gotta be that. Uh no, no, and and no. But that's that's what everyone thinks is like it's they their sour mash. That's that's their name, that's their brand, that's why it's so sweet. You know, that's why it it's it's easy to drink, is because they use sour mash. No one else does. No, no, no, no, no. A lot of them, pretty much everyone does.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah, but now it could be their mash, right? But it's not the fact that it's a sour mash that's making it that way.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Well, it also could be the drop by drop through sugar maple charcoal. That that's really what it is. And I know that because it's right on the bottle. That's step one, it's mellowed. Step two, it's matured. Step three, it's tasted, and step four, it's awarded. It has the steps on there. But yeah, I mean, I do think that the sugar maple charcoal does lend itself to some sweetness that other bourbons or whiskies may not have if they're not doing the sugar maple charcoal filtering. What is the sugar maple? So, charcoal filtering is a process. Steve will probably tell you about a little bit more about this the charcoal filtering process. Right. Um, but they use sugar maple charcoal. I will assume.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

So is sugar maple like a type of wood? Okay, all right. I I know I know maple, but I didn't know there was a sugar maple.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Yep, sugar maple is the main maple that people get maple syrup from.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Gotcha. It's a sweet, it's like a sweeter wood kind of like as the way that cherry wood is sweet, you know what I mean? But the the charcoal filtering process is not something that gets done by every bourbon. Actually, most bourbons don't.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

No, that is what makes Tennessee whiskey the disqualifiers for a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

But uh it is basically just a filtration process that gets and I think it does impart flavor um and and and things like that. But does it happen at the end or the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 21:54

At the end.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

The end.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yeah, it's the last one.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Would you get it uncut, unfiltered bourbon? That's what they're saying. So this hasn't been filtered through anything. A lot more things are filtered than people realize. Charcoal filtering, uh just not sweet maple, maybe. You know what I mean? Because they don't you don't want to impart any sort of and to say that it doesn't impart would be stupid because why do we put it in wood to begin with? Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Well, that's what I'm thinking too. Like it'll go through a wood charcoal, it's gonna impart some flavors, you know. And if we're using American oak for the barrel, I mean it's charcoaled. Essentially, it's burnt, you know. It's it's charred.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Well, it makes you wonder what would it be like if they aged this in sugar maple charcoal barrels? Yeah. Holy hell. That might impart some stuff right there. And then we filter it again on top of that, you know. That might be a little something, something. Right. Guess what? The the unfiltered Jack Daniels, uncut, unfiltered sugar maple barrel. They're gonna take this idea. Um this is good, this is a good idea. For the first time ever, we're not gonna filter our shit.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah, the filtering happens afterwards, and it takes a long time. Like, yeah, so drop by drop. It's it's dry, yeah. They'll open a barrel and put it into this filtration system that's thick, there's a lot going on, and then it goes down to the bottom and it really does drip out. And so uh, I think it was it was something like eight hours that it takes to get through the filtration system.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So, were we talking like absinthe, right? So if you look at like the the old school, old school way of make pouring the absinthe, right? And having the water drip onto the sugar cube. Yeah, but I think it's fascinating. I was gonna say, is it kind of like that kind of theory or thought process?

SPEAKER_03 23:32

You ever seen that, Steve, where they drip the absinthe? I've always wanted to get my own setup. We're gonna do this. I want the I want the whole setup. You can find them every once in a while in antique shops and stuff. You have to buy like the real absinthe, which is a kind of hard to find too, though. But I want to do it. I'm gonna get some sugar cubes and do it. Always wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

So think of a just a giant barrel full of charcoal, and that's what you're pouring it into. So the pieces of charcoal, it goes through there, and I think what's really happening is the charcoal pieces are grabbing on to any kind of debris or any kind of extra things. That's why they use charcoal because it it'll grab any kind of a solid. Yeah, I mean, wood's a natural filter.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

That's why they use balsa wood filters for pipes. It's it's it filters things out while while still being porous and and all and permeable.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yeah, and at the end you just have the whiskey of the liquid, and it's taken out any kind of fats or any kind of wood pieces or anything else that may be there. So yeah, it takes care of all your big sediment things, but also any kind of impurities going through.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

I think it's just another way to add wood into the liquid as well, without having to age it for as long, too. You know what I mean? Like it's a great way to add extra complexity into your liquid there without having to age it.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Okay, there's a lot of distilleries that use a filtration process at the end. Typically are charcoal filtered. However, part of the definition or rules for Tennessee whiskey is it has to be charcoal filtered. Or is it the the maple, the sugar maple charcoal filtered?

SPEAKER_02 25:15

It's only charcoal filtered, they don't specify the type, but I think most of the time it is more of a sweeter charcoal.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

A lot of the stuff that is charcoal filters filtered, we'll say on the bottle, charcoal filtered. Because what you don't want to do is have a bourbon or a whiskey that and again, most bourbons, a lot of bourbons aren't charcoal filtered, but you what you don't want to have is is a charcoal filtered thing claiming it's not. They're really supposed to put it on there. I don't think bourbon's really charcoal filtered at all.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

I don't think it ever is.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

And I don't think I think that technically could disqualify it.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, it could disqualify it. The filtration system that most bourbons would use is either a chill-filtered or non-chill filtered, and then it's kind of going through like cheesecloth or something. You know, it's going through something like that. It's not going through charcoal.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

They still will filter unless it's uncut, unfiltered. You know what I mean? Then it's not filtered at all. But I do think charcoal filtering specifically might disqualify it as I think it does.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I think that's what makes it Tennessee whiskey, uh, outside of being made in Tennessee, if that's a qualification.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

And that's why they're all that's why they're mostly sweet, sweeter. Because they probably like, why would you use charcoal filtering if you're not using the sweet maple? You know what I mean? I feel like that's probably a staple charcoal for the charcoal filtering.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

I think it would be very interesting, flavor-wise, to experiment with the different types of charcoal, different types of wood on the filtration process at the end to see what what it would impart. Yeah. Because clearly this imparts a very sweet aspect to it that no one else has. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Like you said, even like cherry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Cherry wood, that'd be different. Apple wood. Like if you absolutely mesquite, beetry.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

That would be interesting. Yeah. So long branch. I don't, I think that's filtered, but is it mesquite? There's something to do with mesquite in long branch, and it might be filtered in mesquite. There's something to do with mesquite, and I know it's filtered. I know it's filtered. That's why it's not considered a bourbon as well. But I love that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Because mesquite would impart a very like barbecue smoky.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Yeah, very smoky barbecue. I know it's filtered, and I don't know if it's it might be filtered through mesquite now that you mention it. So again, to say that it doesn't in part would be uh wrong. I think it does in part some bit of something.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Could you consider it a finished bourbon? The argument is that Tennessee whiskey is a finished bourbon.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Right. I mean, all Tennessee whiskey is well, it's bourbon.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

It's bourbon with a charcoal finishing at the end, which makes it no longer bourbon. It's now finished. Now, in today's world, we have a lot of finished bourbons.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Right, because you could throw some maple sugar, uh maple wood cu whatever cubes in into something and still keep it bourbon. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

And so we we've we've kind of become okay with something with that.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

That filtering process is what disqualifies somehow, some way.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I I think it I think it's just that when Tennessee whiskey was coming about, finished bourbon was not okay. Like it was no longer bourbon if you finished it in something. It was now a whiskey. Now we're okay with finished bourbons. We kind of go after it, like that's the thing now. And it's okay to call it bourbon even though it's been finished.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

So is Jack Daniels closer to bourbon now than it used to be? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

I think Jack Daniels is a form of it's just a finished bourbon uh in a in a charcoal finish. That's really what it is. It's it is it it has the same rules as bourbon does with the added step of charcoal filtering.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

I just find that it's so and since I reintroduced it, I just feel like it goes down so quick.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

So I I I would agree, but I think that has a lot to do with the proof.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Well, yeah, it's very it's a very friendly proof. Very friendly. What I've noticed flavor-wise, getting into depending on the flavor a little bit, after reintroducing this uh back into my rotation, uh, it would be what I get off of the palette that's overwhelming to me that it didn't used to be, is peanut butter. Now, not peanuts in the same way that I get from like uh Jim Beam. I don't want to say it's like Jim Beam peanuts. What I get from Jack Daniels is a peanut butter. And I just can't get every time I try it, I'm like, well, maybe it's just that day. No, every time I drink it, we're talking like creamy? Yeah, I get it, I get it. I get peanut butter. Like, and I just can't get out of it. And I like it. It's but it's very subtle. I'm not saying it's like overwhelmingly peanut butter, but it's there and it's really in the aftertaste.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

You know what this is? This is the uncrustables for for bourbon. Peanut butter and jelly. This is this is the uncrustables for bourbon. Sweet, yeah. It is, but some get offended by the uncrustables. No, and how you make it, or if you toast it or don't. But if you if you look at the the the peanut butter, the nuttiness, you even said this is not booker's nutty, this is not beam nutty. This is peanut butter and grape jelly. This is this is the uncrustables. You know, Booker's is still the circus peanuts, man.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Not the candy. I mean you like the peanuts you get at a circus, like like roasted peanuts.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Or the jars where it's like the the healthy peanut butter where the oil's still on top, and there's still that that's Booker's. Like we we have to look a certain way, act a certain way. Oh, I get what you're saying about appearance-wise. Yeah, like we we we look natural. This is the uncrustables, we don't care.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

We know what I and I guess from Jim B or Jim Beam, I I never really got peanut butter. I I got peanuts, you know what I mean? I got nutty peanuts, roasted peanuts, shelled peanuts, you know what I mean? Uh but this is like the peanut butter, like the the manufactured peanuts.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Is it just because of the sweetness? Is the peanuts?

SPEAKER_03 30:47

I think there's something to do with the sweetness. It's also something to do with some sort of nuttiness that I get from it, but not like in the same raw nuttiness, you know what I mean? It's it's that like after you eat a bunch of peanut butter and it's kind of coating your throat and it's kind of lingering in the palate. That's what it is. It's the lingering in the palate peanut butter after you ate something with peanut butter. Peanut butter and crackers, like Lance peanut butter crackers, you eat it, you swallow it, you don't drink anything, and it's kind of hanging out in the back of your throat. That's what it is. And I like that. I think it's good. That and then you throw sweetness on top of it because you don't get any sweetness from the Lance peanut butter crackers. But you throw sweetness on top of that peanut butter, dry peanut butter cracker in the back of your throat. That's what I get from, and I really like it. I think it's really and it's something I never ever got before. But now every time I drink Jack Daniels, this is what I get. Can't like I can't get it out of my head, but it's good. I like it. I like it for what it is, and I find myself reaching for that specifically now. If I want that specific taste, nothing else suffices. It's got its own. I've learned it's Jack Daniels has its own unique to them flavor.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

I find that to be fascinating because, like Steve mentioned at the beginning, there was a time where this was top shelf. And everyone wanted smooth. This was 80-proof, smooth, easy drinking. But I also gotta believe they were drinking it on the rocks or with water and three ice cubes and a splash of water, right? They weren't mixing it at that point. So there's gotta be a part of me that says they were getting the flavor and they were pulling out the flavor profile for it and enjoyed it. And at some point it changed. Jack Daniels went from being top shelf full flavor, this is really good, to this is mixer worthy, and that's about it. Frat party, mix worthy, we might be like a step above ever clear at this point for whiskey. So did Jack Daniels change or did the market change? That's that's what I'm trying to figure out. Like what changed? Because and maybe it was a maybe some of both. Maybe it was a generational thing, you know. Maybe it was everyone wanted smooth, everyone wanted just an easygoing kind of thing. And Chris and I actually talked about this the other day, trying to figure out when did Jack and Coke become a thing. Because I think at that point, when Jack and Coke became a thing, it no longer mattered that it was smooth, it no longer mattered that it was 80 proof, it just mattered that now it becomes a mixer, it became something else, it became its own thing. And I do wonder if Jack Daniels was like, eh, let's let's go for this. Like we're we or we are Jack and Coke now because everyone thinks Jack and Coke. But were they also disappointed? Like, did they want to be?

SPEAKER_03 33:32

I don't think I think as long as they're selling, I don't think they care.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Do you think you'd care?

SPEAKER_03 33:36

So if this was your product, you made it, do you think you'd care? I don't think so. And I'll tell you why. Because there are people that will drink this straight. There are people that will drink this in shots, but there were people that will drink this Jack and Coke because that's their drink and it's good and they like it. And I think to be a brand and to have people belove a cocktail made with your stuff. That is there's something to be said for that. Like, we are not just a brand that people will drink for this occasion or that occasion or straight or what we're also a crucial part of a cocktail now. We are the cocktail. And I I've seen Jack and Coke shave soap scented. You know what I mean? Like, because I'm big into shave soaps. I've seen Jack and Coke scented this and Jack and Coke scented that. So they are more than their their, they became more than their liquid. They are now a cocktail. Like they are, if anything, they're infringing on Coca-Cola.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

And they did it differently than other brands have. So, like Secrim 7 had seven and seven, and like that was a drink for a long time, but they never capitalized on that.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

They they could have, they didn't.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

But yeah, so that's the part that I'm trying to figure out because Seagrim 7 and 7 was classy. Yeah, it still sounds classy, it still feels classy.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Coke can be classy, it doesn't sound classy, not anymore. I feel like when it first came out, it might have been a little bit more, but I think soda, soda in general, has always been considered a lesser-than beverage. You know what I mean? Like you don't see uh uh wealthy people you're ordering a Coca-Cola, you know what I mean? Speaking of, if you ever had a jack and coke made with the cherry vanilla, Coke, that is fantastic. Now that is a fantastic drink. Throw a couple cherries in that bad boy.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

I'm uh I'm a big fan of any jack that I've had in the house has always gotten Coke and never drink it alone. And it always has to be Coke Zero.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

I I like it straight. I usually do cherry coke, but home, I usually I use Coke and then add a little bit of grenadine and do it that way. And so it's just so it's a jack and coke and grenadine.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

See, I recently I recently just finished a book um by Neil Gaiman, The American Gods. Have you ever read that?

SPEAKER_02 35:42

All right, it's on my list. I've not read it. No.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

It's really good. The character of Odin, the All-Father, the you know, if you know anything about Odin, he was like considered god. He's the king. Anyway, he uh he is in the book, he's just a dude, uh Mr. Wednesday or whatever. But his drink, and he orders it four, five, six times in this book, is uh Jack Daniels on the rocks. And he drinks it, and he drinks it pretty often. The way he orders it and the way he drinks and the way he talks about it, it's very much uh the sophistication aspect of the Jack Daniels. It's very much the uh the Frank Sinatra idea of ordering. And I think what's interesting is it's almost like after reading it, it's almost like what people would consider that like if somebody else would order a Jack Daniels on the Rocks, I think it would be considered not classy. The fact that this classy dude in a suit is ordering Jack Daniels on the Rocks in a nice restaurant, like a really nice restaurant, it's classy again. So it can be elevated just fine. Like I feel like you Jack Daniels is one of those things you could order in a dive bar, but you could also order at Cameron Mitchell's, right? And it would go just fine either way, and nobody's gonna look down at you for that. How many brands can say that that they could go up or down? Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Yeah, they've done a good job of keeping themselves relevant for any class level. And I feel like for other brands to do that, or a lot of times in books, if they want to make your drink a special drink, they'll take a regular drink but make the drink complicated. Yeah, so like yeah, James Bond's uh martini, which is over the yeah, the Vesper martini is overly complicated. Yeah, exactly. So they just overcomplicate it and that makes it fancy. Other times you'll change the name of it, and it's not a Rum and Cope, it's a Cuba Libre. And so, like, you'll you'll add a name or a thing to it to make it special. Jack and Coke has been able to be a drink that anyone can drink without changing it or taking away from the fact that it's Jack Daniels. It celebrates that it is Jack Daniels and Coca-Cola to quality brands in their markets being put together.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

And I think it's also become one of those brands for people not living in America. It's an American brand, right? Yes. So you have Smith and Wesson and you have Jack Daniels, and you have, you know what I mean? Like this when people think America, they think these things. Yeah. Why? Become the American thing. It has, it really has nothing to do with the really it is, it didn't capitalize on the bourbon thing at all.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

And that's that's the other thing, is that you know, we always talk about how bourbon is the American drink. Uh, but Jack Daniels is distinctly not bourbon. They won't let they won't call themselves that. They're a Tennessee whiskey, they're not a bourbon. And so to have them be the American drink outside of America is another thing that's like it's very impressive on how they were able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

It fascinates me to think post-prohibition, right? Prohibition's done. First thing I think of if someone would be like, gun to your head, what bottle was out? You know, what was the most grab bottle right after Prohibition? I I don't know why. I think Jack Daniels. Like immediately I think, oh, Jack Daniels. Why? I don't I don't know, because there's pictures of you know the rat pack, you know, holding the the bottle, you know, of Jack. And like that doesn't make any sense. But that's what I think of.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Like that's the other thing. When you think of the rat pack, you would assume a martini uh or something like that. I would I would assume clear liquor.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Clear liquor.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Clear liquor and a cigarette.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

That's what I that's what I picture. Gin, yeah, or vodka or even vodka. The other thing is you ever notice when you talk about American uh drinks and things, you got, you know, you got your Jack and your Jim. You never say, you never even hear people say you have your gym and your jack. Jack's first. It's almost like people will think Jack Daniels, then Jim Beam. And I coming from, I mean, I love Jim Beam way more. Like we're not saying that. And they have way more products out there. But people will think, and I even do it, it's Jack, then Jim. And then wild turkey. It's like I would be like Jack, Jim, Wild Turkey, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Again, it's very interesting. We talk about Jack, right? We talked about the idea of Sour Mash and them really kind of honing in and advertising we're Sour Mash. And people think Sour Mash is Jack D. It's it's Jack Daniels, it's Tennessee whiskey. They did a really great job marketing that's what you think of. Do you know the number of guys you could probably talk to and hand them a bottle of Bibb and Tucker, which is a Tennessee bourbon, and they will look at you and go, that this this this isn't this isn't bourbon? No, it's it's bourbon. No, it says Tennessee on it. It has to be Tennessee whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Because Jack Daniels, I mean, they proudly boast we're Tennessee whiskey. And so everyone just thinks if it's made in Tennessee, again, it goes back to the table. It has to be whiskey.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

Yeah, it's anything like if they think that about Tennessee whiskey like they would think about that about bourbon. Well, it's not made in Kentucky, it's not bourbon. But absolutely, if it's made in Tennessee, it's got to be Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah, it has to be Tennessee whiskey. It can't be bourbon. Yeah, it can't come out of Tennessee.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

You know, the other thing to talk about is Jack Daniels was very comfortable being relatively on top for a very long time without making anything extra, other than they did come out with um single barrel? Uh no, no. Um what's the I have it out there. What's the other the honey? The higher end version of Jack Daniels.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Oh, gentlemen?

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Gentleman Jack. Oh, gentlemen Jack. No, Gentleman Jack a while back, and that did okay. Um, but they really, for a very long time, when you think about it, did not expand very much. Now, recently in the last couple of years, you know, they started with the and they did really well with their single barrel and their foolproof stuff, and they're starting to put out more products now. But you think about another bourbon company that has been as big as Jack Daniels that did not vary up and add to their lineup. They basically have one bottle. And they've stuck with it, dude, and they've done very well with it.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

But if you also think about it, they are ones that I don't I don't know if it's the uh public's opinion and viewpoint of them, but they do really, really well and it goes under the radar so much, they're flavored whiskey. You know, any Jim McDaniels flavored stuff, Jack Honey, Jack Fire, you know, like they they do really well with the flavored stuff, but it kind of goes under the radar and no one really pays attention.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

What is that? Red, is that that staggered? Red stag is Jim. That's Jim. That is Jim. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

That was Jim trying to compete with Jack's flavor.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

Yeah, and they can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Do they just do the cinnamon and the fire and honey? So Jack does honey, fire, and apple. Oh, an apple, that's an apple. Yeah, that's the green one. Yeah, I bet the apple's good. Did they do a peach? So Beam tried to compete. Beam tried fire, peach, apple, and honey.

unknown 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

So they try they can't apple's okay. Yeah, but they beam really cornered that market with the peach. Yeah, like the peach one was their thing, but that's also when crown peach came around.

unknown 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

So it was like, which one do you which one do you fight with?

SPEAKER_03 42:58

And the thing, if for anybody listening, is like, what the hell would you do with the throw it in unsweet tea? That's what you do with it. That's a great summer cocktail. Or sweet tea if you want to go that way. But I think Jack could do a peach. I don't, I'm surprised they haven't done a peach. Well, I've never tried any of their flavored stuff. I and I wouldn't be opposed. Um, but you gotta you gotta realize you're mixing that stuff. You are not drinking that stuff on the rocks, or definitely not straight.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I also think they can do that well because their stuff is already sweet.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think it would lend itself more to Jack Daniels than it would Jim Bean for sure. Uh that's why Crown does well with it. Same kind of a deal. They're sweet in another way. Yeah, um, but they lend themselves to those flavorings because I I really think Jack or uh Jim should have stayed out of the flavored stuff. You want to do honey, okay. I think everything will go fine with honey, but for the most part, the flavoring stuff, you're just not so I think they did it well and they stopped.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

So about two years ago, they took red stag foolproof, 80 proof, off the market and came out with a 70 proof.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

I never got to try that foolproof, dude. But their red stack

SPEAKER_01 44:00

To try that so their red stag was their flavored lineup for the longest time, and that's like what a cider of some kind. So they do a hardcore cider and then it's uh black cherry. Oh, black cherry black cherry. I love a black cherry, anything. And I have a hardcore cider from them that's still the 80 proof. But those they did really well, and no one knew it was beam, and everyone was fine with it. They still many people don't realize that Red Stag is is beam.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

But that's I wonder why they left they left they left off the proof. People just didn't like it at that proof point.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

I don't think it was selling very well because uh you gotta think because this is four people to mix. Right. And whiskey drinkers aren't going for flavor. But whiskey people aren't going for it. But I enjoyed it, I thought it was fantastic. It's not around anymore. It's really sad. Even Jack Daniels, theirs drops down to about 70 proof, I think, for for their flavor.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Yeah, anymore. If I want a flavored whiskey, I'll usually make it myself by adding a liqueur to a whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Speaking of which, uh Jack and Coke apparently was first combined or invented in 1907. 1907. I found that out. Okay. I looked that guy up. Which surprises me because I would have thought Jack and Coke, 1907. Jack and Coke was in 1907. I mean, that's back in the sarsaparilla times. Right, which blows my mind because I would think that's like old soda shops. I would think like it just became black.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

I remember, uh, if you remember right though, sodas were invented for two reasons. Uh, one being I don't remember this. Yeah, they were they were so they were invented to be medicinal. Sodas? Yeah, and they were also invented to be mixers for alcohol. So they they sodas were considered to be that's why they were in drug stores. They're they're medicinal.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Coca-Cola was first served in public on May 8th, 1886 at Jacob's pharmacy. So it was it was first served at a pharmacy.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Coca-Cola had cocaine in it, medicinal. People used to be a headache. Yeah, people drink it for a headache. Have you ever heard people say, Oh, you have a stomachache, I'm gonna drink a drink a ginger ale or something? Medicinal. That's where the roots come from. If you had a stomach ache, this was a tonic. That's why they're called tonics, tonic water. The sodas were tonics, they were medicine, they were snake oil medicine. They were they were made for to to to relieve uh belly, like upset stomachs and belly aches, and then also a way of getting medicines and like coca cocaine into the body. Then also like Mountain Dew was made specifically as a mixer for moonshine. So, oh, moonshine tastes like shit. Let's use this to yeah. So Coca-Cola very much it makes sense for them to go straight into mixing it with an also a medicinal thing like alcohol. Makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Coca-Cola is named after cocaine from the coca leaves and caffeine from cola nuts. And so that's the Coca-Cola.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

And caffeine, caffeine's another thing that was very much a medicinal thing. But can you imagine drinking cocaine, caffeine, alcohol back in the day? Holy help.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

We've outlawed four loco for a reason.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

It's like four locos and juice, man. That's where you get the expression highball. Yeah, give me a highball. That's where that expression comes from. Let me get a yeah, but talk about a pick-me-up, you know what I mean? Can you imagine a little cocaine? What'd you have for lunch? Uh, one of those jack and cokes. Holy cow, dude. No wonder your attitude's so great.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

No wonder it became popular.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Mellowed you out and put you up at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

In uh in 1892, which is when that was first came out, Coca-Cola sold about nine drinks per day, totaling $50 in sales. That was their their their sales for the first year.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

$50. Google when they took out the cocaine. I bet that well, it couldn't have been too much longer after the 30s, I gotta think. But good lord, talk about being addicted to soda. You know what I mean? Like, why do you drink so much soda? I like it, I can't function without it. Thinking of that song by uh the man in black, Johnny Cash, took a shot of cocaine and shot my woman down. They're always taking shots of cocaine back then. Everybody was shots of cocaine, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Yeah, it's how you kept going through life and working. Okay, 1903, they stopped using the coca leaves. In 1904, they used spent leaves, so like leftover leaves, so kind of still coke. Uh, 1929 is when cocaine was used uh cocaine-free coca leaf extract, and people were like, this just doesn't hit like it used to.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

It's probably because of Jack and Coke that they're like, uh, we gotta we gotta do something different.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Man, to think if you were alive in 1929 where you were now getting high on your Coca-Cola, all of a sudden you can't get your fixed.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yeah, can you imagine you can't get your fix? Like, what do I do? You just go to the pharmacy and say, Hey, I need some of the actual Coke, and they'd probably be like, Yeah, here you go. Back then, dude, you're just getting it.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

You're just downed case by case, trying to get a hit.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Where is it? Where is it? But you know, for a couple years, they probably had leftover stock. People were still okay for a couple years after that, 1929. We still have some in circulation.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

I just appreciate that. Like, okay, we we can't use the leaf fresh, but we'll use spent leaves.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

I wonder if that was less. I wonder if it was less uh potent, the spent leaves.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

I think it was probably saving money. It probably was, yeah. But the the Coca-Cola flavor is the flavor of the coca leaf. So the cocaine leaf. So like they still use uh a leaf coca leaf extract that just without the effects of it, it just doesn't have cocaine. That's the flavor of the leaf. So people are. So if I were to go chew the the leaf, the coke taste is the flavor of coca leaves. Like that's the that's the thing that you're tasting.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Like cocaine, just don't know it. They just don't they don't realize that they love cocaine. Nothing goes better with a Big Mac than a cocaine leaf. Skip the lettuce, give me the leaf, put it right on the burger. This is the best Big Mac I've ever had.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

No wonder Coke was a bad thing.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

I could go around a hundred miles. My heart's beating real fast. Yeah, that's crazy, dude. Yeah, yeah. That's much later than I thought. Much later. Also, Dr. Pepper, that's where that came from, too. Dr. Pepper. Yeah. Pepper was a doctor. Did medicinal, Dr. Pepper. So Pepper was not a doctor? I don't think Pepper was a doctor, no.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

So Jack Daniels. Uh Jack and Coke.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Jack and Coke. Jack Daniels, old number seven. Put it together when Coke was still in Coca-Cola. Did we ever? I don't know if we've talked about it on before why they call it Old Number Seven. That's their we talked about it on an old podcast, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Yep, we we've done a private select of uh Jack Daniels and kind of went into the history of him then. Can't remember now why.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

There was some it's uh it's got to do with their governmental number for their distillery. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

Yeah, that's what it was. That's right. It wasn't it's has nothing to do with recipe, although it makes you kind of feel like recipe number seven, you know. But it's not. It has you're right, it has something to do with their gov their stamp. Has yeah, stamp number or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

The number assigned to Daniel's distillery for government uh registration, so the seventh distillery. But again, that Jack does a great job marketing-wise. Yeah, no one else puts that number boldly out there, like this is who we are. You just think old number seven, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

That's just it's another thing like Steve was saying, like just put it on the bottle.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Like and uh, I was wrong by the way, when it came to uh the amount of time it took to go through the the charcoal. You know, I said eight days or eight hours or so. It's three to five days. Days. So they really do it, they really do do it drop by drop. I'm sorry, I was also wrong on the timing. This is before it's aged. So they distill it, it's 140 proof, they put it into the charcoal vat, letting gravity take through, and then they put it in the room, and it takes three to five days to go through the charcoal to then get into the barrel to start aging.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

I mean, that's a process. Old number seven, I get that's gotta be heavily corn.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

That would be uh 80 corn. 80 corn. 80 corn, eight rye, 12 barley.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

I think it's good, guys. What do you think? You think it's worth uh for anybody who's who looks at this and is kind of snobby about it, do you think they need to change their maybe reevaluate their opinion?

SPEAKER_02 52:44

I mean, I think because it's an 80-proof whiskey, it's never going to be uh something that's going to be like sought after for drinking straight kind of thing. But in terms of a mixed drink, it's fantastic for it. It's it it has that sweetness that lends itself to it. But I'm not like disliking drinking this straight like this.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

I guess what I'm saying is for anybody that has a a certain type of like feeling towards it, maybe a snobby type of this is just you know what it is. I I think that there's something to be said for not only the history and everything else, but the what the liquid the liquid in the bottle, I think there's nothing wrong with it. And I think if you're already drinking stuff at AD proof, you have no room to say this is not something I would drink for X, Y, and Z. You know what I mean? Like I think the only thing like you said, Steve, is is the proof. And they've adjusted that by putting out stuff with higher proof. They've adjusted that. You put this at a at a higher proof, there's nothing at all wrong with it. And I think for anybody to look down upon it would be like, you know, I think maybe you need to readjust what what you think what you think you're doing here. You know what I mean? Because I think it definitely has its place and it has great flavor. I think this bottle specifically just needs to be higher proof. How'd you think this uh Robusto did with it? I think it did good. I think it added a little bit of uh a depth that Jack Daniels is lacking. It definitely is harsher, but with this, that's a good thing. Yeah, I think we really needed that uh bit of bite because Jack Daniels has none. And I think it's good. I think it is aptly named. This is very robust. It was a robust smoke. I feel that in the back of my throat. I think the Maduro comes through a lot more than you realize too. I think there was a lot more. I think for people that smoke cigars pretty often, if they were smoked this, I'm not getting any cigar. I think it's there. You just have to look for it. Yeah, I think there's a lot more Maduro leaf in here than than I would have like like smelling the tin than I would have realized.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

I would agree with that. It felt very cigar-like.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

Yeah, in a good way, but in a definitely not in a creamy cigar way. This is not a creamy blend. It was more on the harsh side. But I think that that pairs itself with stuff that's overly sweet.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

Exactly. It helped kind of build on the the Jack Daniels.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

So I was I was right in my assumption that we needed something other than something to build on it. Something different. Yeah, good. Well, I'm glad it worked out for you. I think it was good. Yeah, I think it was good. I don't think it'd be like a anything I would be like a go-to, but I think for uh it's it's a great variation of something, it's something different.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Right. GL Piece, Robusto, and old number seven. Not a bad pairing, guys.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Not a bad pairing.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

It was a this was a good one. I enjoyed it. Good podcast, gentlemen. Good, good time. Till next time. Till the next one.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskey tasterspumba.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.