Glenns Creek OCD #5!

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_06 0:29

We're back without Steve. Welcome back to the Whiskey Chasers. Back to the Whiskey Chasers without Steve. Without Steve. Without Steve Edition.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Another without Steve Edition. But we have two guests on today, actually. We got Blake from the club. He's been on before, and we got CJ, who's not from the club, but has been on the podcast several times. It's been a minute. Good friend of mine from Indiana. So visiting and who Blake? Yes, Blake.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Just kidding. Where are you from?

SPEAKER_05 0:57

I'm from down the street. Two doors down. Two doors down. CJ's from Indiana and visiting Mary and I. So decided to join in today. That's true. You did. I guess we should specify that. The wife and kids did come along. We're starting a new series, finished off Little Book, and the series we're starting today is how did I describe it to you, Blake?

SPEAKER_04 1:26

You said it was lesser known distilleries or maybe underrated, undervalued distilleries.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

That's what it was. But we've got four bottles that a few maybe known amongst the bourbon whiskey drinkers, and there's a few that are not known. We're starting off with Glenn's Creek Distillery, OCD number five. Mambo number five. And it's not OCD like Chris's OCD.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

That's not hopefully not. That's not forever. It's not.

SPEAKER_05 1:59

I'm I'm interested. I don't think Chris knows the story behind this bottle or OCD itself, like that those three letters. No, no.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

I've had it. I've had this one time, but I can tell you maybe it's because it's the first sip of the day, but this is different from what I remember. Good or bad, different? Different, different.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

I think it's different all the way around. I've never had anything like it.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

So Glens Creek, the owner of Glens Creek, would fit right in with our podcast because he is a lover of history. And he found this distillery abandoned and run down, started doing some digging into this distillery that he then purchased and said, I I I want this. I want to renovate this distillery. I want to bring it back to life. It's not going to be the exact same what it used to be. I'm not looking for that necessarily, but I kind of want a new start off of something old. OCD stands for Old Crow Distillery. Oh, that's interesting. I did not know that. Wow. So he bought out the old crow distillery, the original old crow distillery. And in his findings and looking through the distillery itself, there were still the old fermentation tanks that were sitting around. And the reason it's OCD number five is as the story goes, the fifth fermentation tank still had strands of yeast in it from the original, what he believed was the original old crow mash bill and old crow bourbon. So he took that yeast strand, and that's what's used in this bottle and in this bourbon.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

That's interesting. Now I think it's completely mental. But once you said that, I was like, this does kind of have some old crow, like it's reminant of old crow.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

Well, so the interesting thing about old crow, in today's terms, at least in my brain from working in bars, it's the dirty bird. It is known as the dirty bird because it is, it might be a step above Kessler's. Yeah, it's a well whiskey. It's a well whiskey, but it actually got its start. I want to say it was a part of the beam family at one point. And Old Crow way back in the day is not what it is today. And after trying this, if it was anything like this, I would still go after it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

I mean, old old crow is not bad. No, it's not bad. It's at least alcohol. You know, it's not neutral. It's not Kessler's. It's not neutral grain spirits. Because last time I checked, it wasn't. So with with with coloring.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Not a Kessler's. And it was uh Doc Crow, is who old Crow Distillery kind of came out of was a Doc Crow. So this has got some history to it, but it is very, it is very interesting. The bottle and the distillery itself, the bottle shape is very like craft distillery kind of feel. It looks like Koval. Yes. The old style coval. Old style uh uh watershed bottles, too. It's a very small distillery, and in the whiskey world, it kind of has become very popular and sought after, but it's very hard to get your hands on. The distillery itself might be one of the few places in Kentucky you'll be able to find it. I got this at Party Source, and I was shocked to find it there, just sitting on the shelf. Tipsy is the one that told me about it. He got a sample of it from a customer of his and he had me try it. And when I first tried it, I went, it's okay. There's nothing really great about it. And then I got myself a bottle and I was like, uh, we'll open it with a club and see what happens. I'm impressed.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

It's got a lot of different flavors going on. There's definitely a deep story to it. It's not like anything that you normally have, honestly. At least I don't think so. There's a whole lot of like kind of a we like a weird cinnamon type of a thing going on. I would not like normal cinnamon, it's almost like very old, like left in a jar for like a long time and it's kind of lost its potency. Cinnamon. Reminds me of a stale red hot cinnamon. Yeah, stale. Stale's a good word. And then it's like but a good stale, not a bad stale. No, yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's not bad. It's just it's old. It's not like new cinnamon, like fresh cinnamon. And it's got like this old wood thing going on. And I don't mean that as like an old dusty barn, like I normally say. It's like almost like almost petrified wood. You know what I mean? Like it's old, maybe musty. Musty is the word.

SPEAKER_05 6:11

I was about to ask when's the last time we had petrified wood?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

I've been around plenty of it, but chew around, chew it a little bit, just chew it out, just suck on it a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Do you know what the age statement is? I do. Normally I'm kind of like Chris, you know, I get that dusty barn taste to it, and I'm not getting that. So I want to say it's actually probably over four years, but I do get that cinnamon, and hopefully it's not because everybody's saying cinnamon. It and it's like an apple cinnamon.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

But if if it's not aged, they did some there, there's a lot of wood in this, I think is what Blake's trying to say too.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

There is, I don't know. I'm very curious after knowing the age, how their process is for barrel size, because it's a two-year-old, it's a two-year-old. So it doesn't taste two year old.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Never guess that.

SPEAKER_05 6:58

It's it's really it does not taste like a two-year-old. Which makes me wonder like, are they doing are they doing like what Journeyman did of 15s and 53s? Like are they like blending together? Are they going solely with a smaller barrel size? Because for two years it's not incredibly dark, but the flavor it's more mature. Yeah, the flavor that brings is a bit more mature. And it's the mash bill, I would not expect this kind of flavor out of the mash bill because it's 87% corn. No way. Wow. Now that I don't believe 87 corn, eight rye, five barley.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Right. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 7:38

That's why I was like, that's it, should be like super corny and super sweet.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

It should be super sweet and more vanilla and more of all that stuff. But usually all the stuff you get from corn, we're not really getting any of it here. This leans more toward a rye to me, like the way that it's so that's when you brought up the cinnamon.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

I was like, that's super interesting because it's like next to no rye in here.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

It does taste more like a rye, doesn't it? And and it's got that deep late rye feeling to it, but it almost, Nick, you know this about me. I'm a big time finished guy. Like you give me something finished, and it's probably right up my alley. And but this is good, it almost tastes like it could have a bit of a finishing to it.

SPEAKER_05 8:19

I could see that I would agree, because it's almost creamy. I don't know if anyone else is getting this where it's it comes across almost like a weeded for me, like a weeded rye.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

There's like one section in the flavor that I would say it's like maybe after the first initial hit, like hit of notes, you get a bit of a creamy, but then it kind of I think that that's where the spice kind of takes over. Yeah, and it lingers into a finite, like a rye finish on that cream.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

It's that initial hit, that cream, it's gone, and that rye and that spice take over, and you get that like cinnamon, cinnamony, stale cinnamon kind of super, it's really, really good.

SPEAKER_05 8:57

Sorry, I saw something about the age process. I was trying to figure out what if I could figure out what they do. No idea. They don't say just that they have a a very special, specific aging process. Oh, so they are doing something different. They are, they also seem to be very experimental.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

I wouldn't be surprised if they're forcing this through wood of some kind, you know what I mean. Like Cleveland?

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Are you talking? Like I'm hoping they're not doing any sort of like ultrasonic aging or something, or doing machine straining it over wood, or they're doing something.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

There's a lot of wood in this, and I don't know what kind of wood it is. So I don't know if it's oak, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

Do you think that old flavor that you're getting is you think that comes from the yeast strain? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

To impart that much flavor, I don't think that you would get that wood notes from that either. But for only two years old, you said it wasn't very dark. That's pretty dark for two years old. That's very dark. Maybe it's the light that I'm in right now.

SPEAKER_05 9:50

It's like an amber red almost.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

For two years, it's old for like how dark that is. I would say it looks as old as like a four or five year old.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

You know what it looks, it looks finished, like you said, CJ. It looks like it's been finished in like a sherry barrel or something.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Because it's a dark red.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

That's darker than anything you and I would have tried last night, Nick.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Outside of a couple, but yeah, that's for two years old for it to be that dark. I think they're interjecting wood somehow. Not in a bad way, not in a cleaver.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

Do you think that they could be doing like smaller barrels, like 15 gallons, and letting it sit for two years? Maybe agitate in the barrel.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Even in two years, just letting that smaller barrel sit. I don't know that you're gonna get I'd be really interested to understand what they're doing because or to hear what they're doing, because that's like you said, that's gotta be something that almost put it in a paint shaker machine and just let it or do you think they could do almost something like maker's mark?

SPEAKER_04 10:42

You use a smaller barrel and then just put a whole bunch of staves.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Staves. That's what I'm saying, too. Yeah, you wouldn't even have to dump it over and give you a lot of your wood. They're interjecting, they're interjecting wood either w from letting it sit in there or they're they're doing something where it's interacting with the wood differently, I think. But in a good way, because I get a lot of now. I don't know if I like the wood the wood specifically, but I do like the way it goes with the other flavors. Would you change? I don't think I'd change it. I I'm I mean, I'm not saying it's my favorite. I do really like it though. But it's it's a as far as the flavor profile goes, I don't know if it's my favorite, but I appreciate its uniqueness.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

For something that isn't finished, this fits right in my wheelhouse. Like I could, this is something that I would probably put on my kit put on my shelf.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yeah, and when Nick first poured this for me, I really enjoyed it. But I had we had been drinking other stuff that night, so I'm wondering if maybe it downplayed the flavor. First thing in the morning, like I'm tasting this, like, wow, that's a pout, like that's punch to the face flavor-wise. And that's I love that. It's a good thing, even if I don't like the flavors, I appreciate that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

What'd you say the proof was on this?

SPEAKER_05 11:47

I didn't uh uh I didn't say it's a surprise. Okay, what would you guys think the proof is?

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Because uh it has to be higher since it's not a rye. Yeah, I'm thinking it's probably right around like 110 or so. Give or take a few points.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

I was yeah, 105, 190.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I agree with CJ 105.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Yep, 104. Oh, let's go. 104 point something.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Oh, yeah. 104.5, the blip. Yes. Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

And what maybe you're not ready for that, but what is the price point on that?

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Price point for this guy is I want to say around 50 bucks. Um, but let me double check. I'm in.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

That's a better price point than I thought you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

I I'm yeah, I'm pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

It is. It's uh it's really Kentucky only. And I I mean, honestly, I people are shocked, and I'm shocked that I even found it at Party Source. Because everything I've been told is you have to go, you really have to go to the distillery to find it.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I mean, if you're going to Kentucky anyway, you know why you're going to Kentucky. So what's another 50 bucks for something like this, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, 55 bucks is MSRP on this guy, especially if you like like that apple cinnamon type of vibe. Because that's the more I drink it, the more that's all I can think of is apple cinnamon.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

It's got a it's got almost like a like that that apple cinnamon nose to it too, almost.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Oh yeah. It's on the the nose and on the taste.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Well, and so something that is also interesting, they got their start in 2015. They opened their doors in 2015. So they've been open for 10 years now. Why is this not older?

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Maybe they don't want it to be older. Maybe they like it the way it is. They don't want to mess with a good thing, you know.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

So if they started it, if they start when they started their distillery and they were if they did smaller barrel sizes to get this flavor profile, at this point, 10 years in, they probably switched to a bigger barrel. So I guess my question is if they've moved to 53 gallons, if that's what they were doing, how are they getting this flavor other than what you guys have been talking about? Some kind of wood intervention? Yeah. Because I don't think you can get this kind of flavor out of a two-year-old 53-gallon barrel. Yeah, there's no way. Whatever it is, they're being tight-lipped about it, right? They're being very tight-lipped. Do they make other stuff? They do, they make other bourbon and other whiskies. Not like this though. Honestly, I think this is like their number one seller that got them on the map, and no one else really talks about what else they have. I haven't tried anything else that they have to offer. I'm just wondering if they're doing the same process to all their or not.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I wonder if anything else they have has that wood, that taste of just compressed wood.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

I'm also curious if they're still using the same yeast for all their stuff or just for this one from you would almost assume it'd be the same yeast, but I'm almost thinking, I mean, if this is selling, if this is selling really well, I guess why would you even change it or try to go older? Fine. I mean, it's it's only two years old. At least price point, you don't have to, from a business standpoint, I mean, why would you just keep going with it?

SPEAKER_03 14:43

But that's exactly, I mean, because it's gonna cost you less to only do it for two years than that would before. Exactly. And if it's already selling and people already like it, why mess with the good thing?

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Especially at 55 bucks. I mean, what is it roughly? You paid 10 bucks a year. A lot of people say, and it's like, well, now you're paying over 20 bucks, almost 25 bucks for a year. So from a business model, you're doing pretty good. You're making pretty good money. Would you guys say this is an underdog or an uh a good bottle from an unknown? I would say this is better than I expected. I know, kind of like Chris, I tried this previously, but I also tried a lot of other stuff that night, and I was not a big fan. But trying it now being the first, it's better than what I remember it. But I'm sure if I try something else later today, I could see myself being like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Did you just say if?

SPEAKER_04 15:35

I did just say if.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

When when it is inevitable.

SPEAKER_05 15:39

So, would you guys say it with that idea, Blake? Is this not a standalone bottle? In the sense that if I had anything else, I would still reach and gravitate towards this.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

Unfortunately, I would I would probably say no. I know me personally, I'd I'd probably gravitate to something else, especially at a $55 price point, even though that is a lot better than what I thought this was going to be, but I'd probably still pick something else.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

I think there's two people like that, like you'd either buy this because I think like CJ really likes the flavor. So I think people that are like, oh, this is my jam, they would buy that for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

But I also think that this is something that I I would have to be in the mood for this. It it fits my flavor profile, it fits that maybe could feel like it's finished, but not really, tells a great story, got a lot of complexity up front before you get the Ryburn, which isn't necessarily right, right? So so I think that's where this becomes like a I gotta be in the mood for this. It's something I would definitely put in my cabinet, but I would have to be in the mood for it because it is different enough that it's not something that I'm gonna gravitate towards, you know, all the time. All the time.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah, I was gonna say the other person would be it would be because it's a unique bottle. And I think it's nice to have those for when people come over and like, hey, try this. Wow, that's different. You know what I mean? Because this is very much I can't think of another bottle that I would really compare this to. Can you guys?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

The only thing that has any sort of resemblance to this to me, Nick. Do you remember that you had it at my house? There was that Martin's pick, and they finish theirs or blend in like two or three different kinds of wine finish. It's but that one is like 126 proof. It's the burning chair, whatever it's they, and that's the that's like that's what this reminds me of. You get that great flavor in the beginning, and that's a finished bottle. But that's a finished bottle. That's what kind of this, but that also is one that isn't something that you want all the time. I want all the time. It's something that I want every once in a while when I'm feeling like a little bit of a kick or something like that, you know, you gravitate towards that. Like whipsaw or that's my everyday whipsaw's my jam, man. I like whipsaw too, but I don't I don't want to have it all the time because then I won't appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 18:04

What about you, Chris? Would this be uh not an everyday drinker, but this would would this be something you'd gravitate towards quite a bit, or every now and then?

SPEAKER_03 18:12

I think for me, I fall into the category of I would I would have this for people to try. I like that, I like that it's unique. I appreciate it for what it is. I don't personally like cinnamon of any kind, of any kind. But you like rice, which is so interesting. It's different. It's not that apple, apples, sweet cinnamon type of a thing. So I think anything that's even got little, like if I smell big red gum, I'm like put off. You know what I mean? Right. Any cinnamon, I'm like, yeah. So not a red hat fan. No, not for me. I'm not a cinnamon guy. But that being said, I appreciate it for what it is. I like it. I think it's a great price point. Two years old, it's got a lot of flavor coming off of it for two years old.

SPEAKER_05 18:49

So the one reason why I picked this bottle for this series was because it's become so popular within the whiskey bourbon community. But as I hear you guys talk, I start to question why. Like what's causing guys to gravitate towards this bottle? I I mean, I don't know that I can say it's a price tag alone because they have to go to the distillery to get it. So it's not like it's convenient or easy to get.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

I think in this day and age, it's just the hunt, right? Like everybody's after that hunt, everybody's after that challenge, that one bottle. And if you can't find it somewhere, I mean, when you hit it, you're like, oh yes, I found it. And I think that that alone to the even some of the most avid whiskey collectors makes the bottle better, right? I mean, somebody who they're gonna try it and they're gonna be like, oh, just for the satisfaction of that they found it, they got it because it's hard to find. Where if this was on the shelf, even 70% of the places that you go, is it something that you would pick up? And is it something that you would have as much enjoyment? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

That's true with a lot of bottles. Look at look at how prevalent Rittenhouse rye used to be on the shelf or or any of those bottles. Uh, you can talk about any Buffalo Trace bottles, prevalent until people said, Hey, I can't get this stuff, hey, I can't get this stuff, hey, I want this stuff. So then you know it's all gone. It wasn't because people started drinking more bourbon, it's because it was hard to get. Like, if you want anything to be uh hard to get, all you have to do is get online. Enough people get online and be like, I can't get this stuff, I can't get I'm getting all I can, I'm getting all I can. You know, people read that and be like, Oh, the hype man, here's a bunch right here. I'm gonna buy all these. You know what I mean? It's the hype, yeah. Not saying this is just hype, but I think that that is part of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

No, I think this is this, like I said, this is this is it's better than the hype. I mean, I don't think it's just the hype. I think if somebody tried this, they would be pleasantly surprised, especially with a two-year-age stamp. But I definitely think it plays into people wanting it just because they can't have it. Because they can't have it, yeah. That's human nature.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Because it's limited or whatever. Yeah, yeah. I think you're right. And I think that if I mean if you were to anybody that knows what they're talking about, if you were to try this, you'd go, Well, that's that's different. You know what I mean? And I think people that people appreciate different, like even like I don't really like it per se. It's not my favorite, but I appreciate it so much that I think that it's well worth the money and everything else, and the hunt and all that other stuff. So I think there's people that will buy this just because it is unique.

SPEAKER_05 21:16

So let me ask you this before Willet sold out, and I don't mean like they they didn't sell out, but before they came extremely popular, do you think they would have been this kind of like this bottle if it was theirs, it'd be sought after?

SPEAKER_03 21:27

They were. Will it was like that? Will it was sought after to this extreme? Probably to the same extreme as this is because I mean I don't know how hard people are looking for this, but there was a time that people like wanted Willet and couldn't get Willet. And it didn't matter what it was, the Willet, the family reserve rye stuff, the uh even the Noah's Mill and Rowan's Creek, even down to the pot still. I remember paying like way back in the day when I went to Kentucky one time, I bought a bottle of Willet Pot still, and it was like just a fifth was like 80 bucks because people couldn't get it. It wasn't just around. Do you know what I mean? And if you know anything about Willet, it is unique. It is different. And it's super unique. You either like it or you don't. And there's people that hate Willet Pots though because I don't like the way it tastes. And I'm like, well, it's that's a you either like it or you don't.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

It's I might show my my like or dislike for Willet, but the pot still is the one in the big tall. I I bought that. My wife bought that for me at Tipsy's when she was down here the one time. And I took it and I tried it, and it is a piece that sits on the top shelf that looks cool and it's still full. Yeah, it's just not like that.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

People don't like that. It's got a certain there's a certain flavor to it. And I almost it's like a meat flavor.

SPEAKER_05 22:35

Does that come from the pot still? Do you think?

SPEAKER_03 22:37

No, I think it just comes from their the way that they do it. Okay. The way that they do everything. If you ever go to Willet, you would it's just different. They just do it differently. It's a cool place. It's a really cool place. Um, but and I had the same conversation with them over there. And I'm like, you guys know, like, there's something in here, and it's meaty, and I don't know what it is. It's some and it's a unique flavor. And they're like, yeah, people either like that or they don't. And it turns off a lot of people, but you know, for all the people it turns off, there's people that like it. So it's the same kind of a thing. I think with this, you know, I mean, now Willet's gotten bigger and bigger, and they're more they were just boutique for a while and they weren't producing that much. Now, I mean, you know how many people wanted it in Ohio, couldn't get it, couldn't get it. They were freaking out. Finally, it's in Ohio, you know. So now it's all over the place, it's not as sought after. If this was on every shelf, would we even be talking about people wanting like working hard to get it? Probably. I completely agree. We'd only be talking without talking about this.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

That's it. I mean, I I struggled to agree at first because I Chris and CJ, you talked about the the the find hunting after the bottles, and you brought up big name bottles. And I keep thinking, this is not big name, like no one really knows this name. So why the hunt? Is it because of the history where they go, oh, this used this came from an old crow distillery kind of feel? Or is it because I can't get it? Is it because I can't find it? I gotta have it.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

The hunt comes from one guy that gets on the internet that goes, I can't find this. And the next guy goes, Well, I can't find it either. And then all of a sudden you have people that have never heard of this bottle that are looking for it just because other people can't find it.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

I kind of want to try to just make up a bottle name and be like, I can't find this. Can anyone find it for me? What better way to promote your business, right? Right. You don't have those things in your life.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

You have 10 of your friends say, I can't find it, I can't find it. Then you get on and go, There's 10 of them down at the Kroger, they all go down there and get it. You know what I mean? It's a good way of doing it. Sold the whole batch. Yeah. I mean, that that would be one way to do it. But I but I do think that this is more than that. It is it is unique.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

Yeah. I just I would agree. Now, Blake, you got some chemical engineering a little bit, yeah. Yeah, uh with that kind of knowledge and your love of of whiskey and bourbon, would you say there's a difference for you and flavor-wise or process-wise between pot stills and like column stills? I think you can taste it.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

I and I'm hoping it's not just psychological, but the process is completely different. I feel like um might be speaking a little bit out of turn, but I think the pot still does impart maybe a little bit more complexity and flavor just straight from the still. And then maybe as far as aging, you don't have to be as maybe inventive, but with the column still, obviously it's more efficient. You can pull more off of it, but on the flip side of that, then you're gonna have to be a little bit more inventive with your aging or age it potentially longer, where the pot still is going to definitely impart more flavors on the whiskey.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

That might be where you guys are getting the flavor because they use pot stills, they have custom-made pot stills that they use for this, which isn't, I feel like not unheard of for small craft distilleries. Yeah, definitely cheaper. Right, it's definitely easier to use, easier to start. Uh, column stills are massive and expensive. And I usually prefer pot still stuff. So maybe that's where some of the flavor that you're getting is being imparted from is the pot still, not so much what they might be doing with aging or afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

I mean, Willet's pot still too. Right. And that's again, that has its own unique flavor. So maybe it's a combination of the pot still with whatever stuff they're using, whatever type of this or that. You know what I mean? Like even the corn, it comes down to the corn, they didn't say what kind of corn. Maybe it's a different kind of corn. We don't know. So could be something, but it is uh, I don't know. I think it's good.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

Do you think there's something to be said for pot stills for underdog craft distilleries?

SPEAKER_03 26:33

I think so. I think it just makes it that much more unique. I uh you almost can taste something is kind of small, but like homemade almost when it's a pot still. You know what I mean? Not all homemade pies are good.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Well, I guess to play devil's advocate, have you ever heard of any underrated or underdog distilleries that use column stills?

SPEAKER_05 26:54

We well, that's a good point. CJ and I had we were talking about this distillery uh the maybe the other day, actually. I let him try Ralph's rye from oh I'm gonna space on the name. The the distillery we went to and interviewed in Middletown, Ohio. They have a very small setup and they use a column still. Is it a cum still or is it a hybrid still? It's a hybrid. It was a hybrid, it's a hybrid, uh, but they also don't distill their own whiskey. That's a whole nother thing. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Did we get that episode out yet? Or listen to the episode. Which one was that?

SPEAKER_05 27:30

The Ralph's rye, the one where you're like, hey, if this was Ralph's everyday drinker, I guess it was okay. I was like, I wasn't around to drink this.

SPEAKER_07 27:36

Right, right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Yes, yes. Yeah, I can't remember the name of that distillery. I don't know why it's I'm blanking. Steve's gonna listen to this and be like shouting.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

Uh you idiots. It's like on the tip of my tongue, it's a family distillery. I they do they do some cool stuff there, but yeah. They do a lot of cool, cool things, but and they're really good people. Um, you're right, they had a hybrid. What's what's the difference? Maybe I should ask.

SPEAKER_04 28:03

So hybrid's basically just a combination of like a pot still and a column still. So the reason you'd have that is oh, instead of bourbon today, I want to make gin and then so or vodka, and then you can just pull it off of the column still, right? Instead of because you wouldn't necessarily want to make vodka in a in a pot still.

SPEAKER_05 28:22

Why not? Is it the same thing?

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Like it's vodka's just just be different. It it's definitely more efficient to run it through the column still because with vodka, you you want to keep distilling it over and over again, and com still's can distilling it as it goes up the column continuously. So that's why they would want it because again, with the smaller companies, they probably with the bourbons and stuff, it's gonna take them a lot longer to age it. Now I need to use gin and vodka in the meantime to at least have some sort of cash flow.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Which which he explained that to us while we were there, if you remember, because he does did say like we do a lot of vodka and gin and stuff, and and um which CJ really liked their gin.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

I did really enjoy their gin.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

Name brand distilleries. Name brand. That's what we couldn't name the name.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah, I couldn't think of the name Brandt. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 29:17

That's that's what that was. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, I wondered how much they're using like their their gin and vodka and stuff like that to fill in.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Well, I I remember thinking I like I think remember I said that like I like the gin and the vodka better than thequila numbers. Oh, the tequila.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Because they did their own kind of tequila numbers. In my opinion, the gin was way better than the other product.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah, you're right. I had that uh I had that uh agave spirit, air quotes, uh neat, and I liked it. Yeah, which not typical for I usually like at least ice or something with it, but it wasn't typical uh at all. I liked it, yeah. It was good. It was name brand. That's what I've got a name.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

So would you guys consider this? I know that I brought this into the conversation or into the series as being an underdog, right? Would you consider this a good worthy of being a underdog?

SPEAKER_03 30:11

I don't think it's an underdog. I think the way you said it earlier, non-known, yeah, lesser known. Yeah, I think it's really, especially for the people that this checks their box, like where was this been all my life? You know, kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_05 30:24

Yeah, maybe this is a better way of putting it. Do you think that this kind of no-name distillery, unknown distillery, deserves credit for this bottle?

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Yeah, I mean, I like the story behind it too.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah, I think the bottle fits. I think the bottle fits your like uh it fits a place on my shelf. It fits in a spot where it's different enough that I can put it on the shelf and pull it down and have it every once in a while, or let people try it. So I think for that, I mean that's that's what we're all hunting for anyway. And when we're looking for sought-after bottles, is that specific flavor profile or that specific note that we really, really like. And I think this is different enough that for me it it definitely fits that place of like, yeah, this is something that if I ran into it somewhere and knew again, knew I couldn't get it just anywhere, I'd definitely pay the $55 to have it on my shelf. Just to say I had it and let people try it.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

I mean, I would give them credit for you know, this only being two years old and it tastes as complex as it does for being two years old. That's very impressive. But that's the surprising part. On the flip side, when I think of price point for $55, I'm like, there's other things for $55 I'd probably rather get. I don't think the flavor profile is exactly what I like to go towards. But again, two years old, this is probably the best two-year-old bourbon I've ever had. I'd probably say that.

SPEAKER_05 31:52

That's high praise. Yeah, that is really high price. Now, if this was on the shelf and you guys have never tried it before, would you even look at it? Probably not.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

I think it might need um does it have the does it even say on here like old crow distillery and stuff? Like, does it have its story or not? On the back, I don't I don't know if it has it on the back or not. If it doesn't, then that's kind of a waste because I I feel like people would definitely read that and go. I know I would read that and go, Oh, I'm gonna try this because old crow, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

Completely agree with that. I think just the old crow distillery part would draw people in. If they don't have that as marketing, I'd be very surprised. So that's a mess.

SPEAKER_05 32:27

Let me ask you this then, and Chris might enjoy this question. If you're saying, hey, if I saw on the bottle they have old the kind of the story about the old crow distillery and where this came out of, how is this different from like the James E. Pepper? Because they are trying to renovate and bring back the James E. Pepper distillery and are actually in there, but it's not their stuff. Yeah, that's originally when they were putting out. Like, would you look at that as well and be like, okay, I get this your story, but is this actually distilled there? Or would you just see it came from James E. Pepper? I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for it.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

I think those are are two completely different things of this is the story about James E. Pepper, but this is figuring out its source, and you're like, well, that's that's no fun. But where this is like, oh, this is actually the yeast strain, potentially, you know, this was actually distilled here, even though it's two years. I definitely appreciate that more than oh, here's our story, but it's not ours. And you're like, what do you mean it's not yours? This is this is supposed to be yours, and then yeah, I I would probably gravitate to this more than even if it was sourced for you know five years. I think I would like this better.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

I think if the front of that bottle had anything to do with old crow on it, it would help. It that would make people gravitate towards it, and then you place that with a little bit of the story on the back side, it did fly off the shelves.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

There's a there's a good amount written here on the back. Yeah, I will say some of it is a little hard to follow. I don't think they're trying they're trying not to come out and say what it is. It's a trademark issue. I think it might be it might be.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

I never thought about the only thing they can't say old trade.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

There's things about it that it says, um, and I like the way that they put using dormant yeast captured from fermenting tank number five at the old distillery. So they didn't say old crow. They just said at the old distillery. Then we handcrafted spirits similar to the popular bourbon by Dr. James Crow. So again, they didn't say old crow, they said Dr. James Crow. And they said similar to, so they're not like saying this in the case. So they can't.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Maybe they can't, yeah. But I do think it would help.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

I think if I don't think they trade Mark a crow, right? Put a crow on the model. Kind of this isn't old crow. I put that on the back. This is not old crow.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Just because it has a crow on the front, would that help you?

SPEAKER_03 34:49

I don't know. I I just think uh I think it would if if you're looking like if you're and again, we're a little bit different than most people, but uh the average per person that buys bourbon and he's looking for like a new bottle, kind of like how we used to do back in the day, and you're looking for something that kind of jumps out off the shelf, and you see this along with like Hawking Hills and and this, that, and the other. You know, you get what I'm saying? It looks like, oh, that's probably from a small distillery. And then you look at the price, you're like, eh, 55 bucks. I probably would get like four roses, single barrels here for 50 bucks. You know what I mean? I'm gonna pick that up. So it would go unnoticed. I think you could do something to make this a little bit more, hey, hey, look at me. Um, read my read the back of me, you know, and then on the back, you make it a little bit more obvious what you're doing. I think.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

I think for me too, is a lot of times when I'm looking for something different that I haven't had at a store, I will tend to look at the color in the bottle. The color, yeah. Like the color of the whiskey in the bottle or the bourbon or whatever. Like, and I think that's one thing that this has playing for it is like you know, the normally the darker things are, the more flavor you get from it.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

I think something to take note of too here is and I don't think you talked about this, Nick, unless I was just brain like brain farting. But this is not this is not uh typical for bourbon. So they say that they they cook the rye and the corn of the barley in the kettle by hand, which is that's kind of cool, whatever. But uh then it's fermented with this number five. But the fermented mash is distilled in a special triple distillation pot. Now, I've seen some have triple triple distillation like pot stills, but that's not that common, you know what I mean? Maybe that they need to kind of push a little bit more about and it's their custom it's a custom pot.

SPEAKER_05 36:38

Their own custom pot still that they use.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

The spirit from the still is not cut with water after distilling or aging. Not the person is aged and you so how do they they don't proof it down? That's another thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Oh, okay. So it's coming off the still kind of it must be coming off the still kind of weak.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

104 and it's gonna age, it's gonna proof up as it ages. It's only two years, but it's probably coming off pretty weak if they're not cutting it with anything. So that's something else that they didn't really talk about. If this isn't cut, it should say uncut, right? Basically, they're basically saying that that's a single, oh well not a single barrel, but uh uncut, unfiltered. Well, it might be filtered out, I don't know, but it's uncut. You don't have to, but I think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

I think it helps the selling point for sure.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

I think it helps the selling point. It's another thing to put on there. Uncut. If you see uncut on that bottle, it might change your perspective on the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, change mine.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

I like uncut stuff. I mean, that's what I always like I've always liked about uh bookers and everything else, like uncut, unfiltered, like it's just and that's what I love about single barrels too. If you get like something that's barrel-proof, single barrel, uncut, like it basically they made it, they put it in a in a barrel, they put that barrel in a bottle, and you got it. That's unique.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

If you told me that the would that change if you told me that that was a single, if I told you that was a single barrel, just the way it is now.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

It in the liquor store, I would be way more apt to pick that up. What do you guys think? Yeah, oh absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you see single barrel, it's like, okay, I'm gonna give this more attention. And then on the back of it said anything that made me think old crow, I'd be like, that's kind of cool. I do think they dance around that well. They do dance around it.

SPEAKER_04 38:19

They dance around it well, they dance around it as well as well as they could. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

And I mean, anybody that knows anything about it, which would not have been me, I would have read it and been like, all right, cool. I I don't know what this is until today.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

It's just interesting that they're gonna hang their hat on something they can't really publicize. You know what I mean? Like even the name OCD. They can't say old crow anywhere in there, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 38:42

I feel like that's uh I think that might that might classify this more as an underdog than anything else, is the fact that like they've got a they've got a challenge to promote this because of like they can't say old crow, uh what it seems, they can't say old crow. They're gonna hang their hat on it because it is decent for two years, it's good. So, like, there's a challenge there to even market that, which does put it at a disadvantage.

SPEAKER_05 39:09

It reminds me of uh Journeyman's Last Feather Eye. They used to be Ravenswood. Yes, and they had they got into a legal battle with it and they had to change it, but they still have the RR Ravenswood rye on the back of their every bottle of it crossed out.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 39:28

Like that's what this reminds me of. Like, if they can't if they can't name because or trademark anything where it came from, they really should have like like old crow crossed out, like on the back. Something, something a little more petty, just something a little petty of like, okay, kind of I I I can read between the lines and I can I can guess on where this came from without you really telling me where it came from at this point.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

I think it'd be fun.

SPEAKER_05 39:52

Yeah, I think it'd be fun.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

It'd be funny. Because for a unique bottle, now you have like a unique story behind it, and that's all the selling you need. There are some that hang their hat on that kind of gimmick of like James G. Pepper. Yeah, it's gotta go. You have to you have to have both. Right.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

And then this has both. This is kind of that gimmick. Uh, if the the bourbon wasn't this good, it would come across as a gimmick bottle. Oh, absolutely. 100%. But because the bourbon can speak for itself and really stand out, I would say this is not a gimmicky bottle. It's good. I think it's worth trying and checking out.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

I think everybody should try it.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

And at $55, I mean, it's worth trying.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Whether it's a shelf for free or not, I don't know. I if I had this, would I replace it if it gets empty? I don't know. Probably not. Um, but it would probably take a long time for it to get empty, too. Because like CJ was saying, it's something you reach for every now and then. And I'll appreciate the heck about like I I have unique bottles just like that, that they're not really my thing, but they're so unique that I like to pull them down now and then give them to people, or or maybe I'll try them myself or something. You never know what's gonna hit you that day as far as like how your palate is.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

My favorite thing is having that bottle that you pull down for two or three guys at the house to be like, hey, do you guys want to try this? And then you try it and see what their reactions are from it. Like that's that's so much fun for me. So just to have a bottle like that with the uniqueness that this has is helpful for me. But like you said, once it's gone, I don't know that I would go replace it. But I would definitely buy it once to have it, just because.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Especially if you haven't tried it and you're listening, like that's you know, if it's unless it's cinnamon's a total turn off for you, maybe that would be a reason not to. And again, it's not like overly cinnamon, it's very much minute, but when you pick up on it, you pick up on it.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

I also feel like the flavor kind of changes over time in the glass. In the glass, I've it's been sitting here for a little while, and it's not as cinnamon for me. There's almost kind of a custardy kind of flavor that comes out.

SPEAKER_06 41:49

Custardy?

SPEAKER_05 41:50

Yes, I don't get that, but it's been sitting here for a while. I've been babying it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

You mean custard like eggnog kind of uh like this this like eggnog kind of like spices that you get?

SPEAKER_04 42:00

Yeah, I get that like a nutmeg, you take it like a nutmeg all spice. Yeah, you go with like the cinnamon, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

Okay, I feel like a like a homemade custard pie almost. Like you still have those some of those baking spices kind of added in it. I get that without the creaminess.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah, I was gonna say I don't get the creaminess. You can I can understand that.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

But what you know what you're describing is very rye-esque, other than the cinnamon. Without it being harsh, yeah. It is very rye. It's it's kind of the rye. Because there's like 70, what do you say, like 70? 78 corn?

SPEAKER_05 42:30

Uh 87 corn. That's insane. Yeah. That's a high corn mash belt. It's a map, I mean, uh ungodly high corn. You might as well just be a straight.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

It should just taste, it should just taste like any other ho hum bourbon out there. I that's what I can't get over. It's gotta be well, and they're here's the big thing is they're talking about this. How did they put it? Yeast how they talk about it. I don't know what I'm looking for. Some sort of at least dormant, yeah. Dormant yeast. Dormant yeast. Okay, dormant yeast could be like the whole thing, why this tastes so different. Because to me, that's almost like not like bad, like off, like off good, you know what I mean? Like, what do you expired? That's the word I'm thinking of. Like using an expired product, kind of that might be giving it why it's because otherwise I can't think of why this would not taste like any other regular bourbon. But maybe that if it's dormant yeast, that yeast is old as crud. Yeah, it's been sleeping for a while.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Well, dumb question, don't they have to activate the yeast? If it's dormant, yeah, because otherwise you can't have the fermentation process if so. How do you activate yeast? I forget exactly how you activate yeast. You know who might know this? True.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

My wife, my wife, maybe uh uh sourdough stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Yeah. Reactivate the yeast.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, so dormant dormant yeast is just a dry yeast. So it's like yeast that's dried up. And it's good, it's the benefit of dried yeast is it will stay dormant without dying for up to two years. So like a dormant yeast is like a it seems to me like it's a dormacy is what you have with dried dried yeast so the interweb says it was yeast that had been dried out and they're good up to the on the shelf for up to two years yeah but how long has it been since yeah I was about to say how long is a good in the a tank then because this is from old crow number five been sitting for like 20 years and you're like that it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

The distillery's been sitting around just for a while. It's got it it's got 30 years hiding for 30 years. So 30 years. That's more two years. That's 28 years too long.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

This also said that most strains are not available in their dried states. Most strains of yeast.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

That is interesting. So there is there's something going on. Something's happening. Maybe they committed to the thing. Something's happening. I don't know. Maybe they took that. I'm not I mean, I just think that that's what it is because otherwise this would just taste like any other two-year-old bourbon with that much corn in it, especially. Yes. It's gotta be some extra between their the way that they're like distilling it and then whatever they're doing with the wood, and then that yeast.

SPEAKER_05 45:10

It'll be interesting to uh the next bottle we got is from Kentucky. We got two bottles from Kentucky and two not from Kentucky, kind of far away from Kentucky. But it'll be interesting to have the next one compared to this because it is nine-day difference from this guy. Yeah, it's nine-day difference from this guy. Age-wise, it's it's older, uh, but not by much. Not by much at all. So very curious to see what that what I'll that will change and do. And Blake and CJ will be joining us for that. Blake and CJ will be joining us for that as well. So till then, gentlemen. All right.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspomba.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.