Fire and Flask!

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Oh, while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick. And I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I've given it to several people and I've yet to have a negative. What's the theme? Is it just so kind of the idea? Okay. Oh, it's transitioning from the screen. We're kind of transitioning from like the everyday bourbon that we went. We went with like camping. We went with the July summer flavored. And now we're kind of getting into entering fall. We're entering kind of fall into that craft, into that the specialty flavors, that heavy scotch kind of feeling.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Aromatic start coming out, wine finishes start coming out, scotches start coming out because they're finished and things as well. I get it. So okay. Well, depending on what we end up drinking, is what I'll end up pairing. But I do have well, I'm not pairing, but is whatever sounds good because I just picked a c a couple of tens that all have age, uh, and we will go from there. I vote we we start with the weirdest one first, uh, which would be the no, the purple corn.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yes. There's a purple corn one.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I've got pipes laying around so many places, and I'm like, I don't I don't even know where the ones I'm thinking of are. And again, we're just gonna go with it. So here's what we're gonna do, Steve. Oh god. You see this? Oh, a navy flake? But it's done Dunhill. Dunhill flake. So they still make this in Peterson, but this is the Dunhill.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Dunhill version. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

So this was aging before Dunhill even shut down. Shut down. Yeah. So I'm trying to think of what the year is on this. Are you cracking it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Oh, all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is this says 2018. So not that old, but I mean, that's pretty old actually at this point. But yeah, it'd be seven years. But yeah, Dunhill. Anything with this name, I mean, that's you know, collectible. So, but uh, I've never had Dunhill Flake. It's a Virginia Flake, uh, but people love it. I mean, they love it so much that they brought it back and made it under the Peterson name. So we're gonna find out. Perfect. I have no idea how it's gonna go, but if people like it, it's gonna go great. It's been sitting there forever. It was one of those like I was like, I'll try this, and I never got around to it.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

And we're drinking Fire and Flask Distilleries. Before you get into the age and everything, I want I want Chris and you guys to try it. Try it to smell it. No, both. You can try it and smell it before you because it has this is a very transparent company, yes. So it has everything on the bottle.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Didemium didemium is the name of the bottle.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Not the name of the corn?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

No, it is not the name of the corn. And uh, I'll tell you what that word means as we go through because I figured that out.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Denim? Perdimium. Didemium didemium. D denim. That's all I can think of. D denum. Doubles. The bears. Du bears.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

I know it's young. I knew that because of researching, but smelling it, I know it's young.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Oh wow. Gosh, that smells fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

The bottle? No, no, the tobacco. I haven't even looked at the liquor yet.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Still working on those tobaccos. Still just trying to press this tin. Dude, that's old. Like the uh, oh yeah. Like the sides of this have gone like sticky almost. Crystal. You see the crystals? Oh yeah, it smells fantastic. Here, Nick, give it a sniffer. And I'd have to look it up as far as what's in it. I mean, I'm sure it's not just a straight navy, but or I mean a straight Virginia, but yeah, it looks cool. I'm gonna grab two flakes. And they're the perfect content, like moisture content. So here you go. Steverino. Now I will let me give this thing a nose. Wait, so this is flavored?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

No!

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Oh purple corn. That's the unique thing about this. Smell is flavored. It's kind of like a bouquet on the nose.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

It reminds me of leather and oak, like that kind of smell.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, yeah, because it this it has a bit of a local smell to it. A small batch, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

So before Steve really gets into this, small time at least. You've never seen this bottle.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

You've never seen I've what is it? I haven't even looked at it yet. I I poured out of it and I didn't even look. Oh wow, that is kind of cool looking.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Fire and flask. Fire and flask, which I didn't even know when I when I you sent me the picture of this, and I saw the fire and flask, and I was like, okay, cool. And then and then I didn't see the little the purple, the name of it all in the picture. And it's all like reflecty purple. That's really cool. Look it up, and I found out the name of the bottle. I'm like, they really should put that in the bottle. But they never it turns out they did.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

It just was blends in. Uh blend in again, yeah. So this is a bottle that there was one night that Brendan was over down at the bar, and we're talking different types of corn. You know, what companies are actually getting out there and trying different types, different styles. You got yellow dent corn is the most popular, and then you got some that are doing like food grade white corn, you got some that are sweet corn trying to jump around. And this guy popped up as brand new, never heard it before. They use purple corn. I didn't know the purple corn existed. For one, for two, they used to only sell it online. Like that's how small this place is. Like it is very tiny. I think they're on batch number four. This is batch number four, this bottle. Wow, so they're they're incredibly small, incredibly tiny, very tiny, and even more tiny than you're imagining. Yeah. And is this is this all they do? So this is their only bottle.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

This is the only bottling that they do. Now they've changed mash bills and things up, from what I understand, for each batch to try to figure out what sticks and what they like most. But I found this at Party Source down in Kentucky, just randomly. And it was like the last bottle that they had. So, of course, knowing that I saw this online, you can only get it online, and that it's purple corn, I I pulled the trigger and went for it because I don't know anyone else that does purple corn.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I think uh one sip in what I am tasting is quality. I mean, it doesn't taste like you know, you guys are saying this is the only thing they've done. Very, very small. This is fairly new, but what it does taste is quality. It's not tasting like cheap.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

No, no, it's not thin. It's uh it reminds me of Journeyman when we talk about quality, like a small startup quality. It reminds me of Journeyman.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

And I mean it tastes aged, yeah, like not like you know, rushed. Like that's what I'm getting at. It doesn't taste yes, it tastes thought through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Well thought through. Now I don't know, I know it's veteran-owned, but I don't know much about that aspect. Again, this is batch number four, Chris. 1.1 year old.

unknown 7:00

What?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, no, 1.1 year old. Yeah, what are they doing here?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

I'll I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

1.1 years old.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Here's here's the thing like this doesn't taste wrong. 1.1 years old. Here's the thing with this company. I looked online, no, there there's zero information about this company online because they're so new. So, like, nobody's reviewed them. There's like there's nothing out there about them. So I had nothing to go off of other than their own website. So I was like, all right, I need something. I like I need to know like why like they don't even talk about like why they're using purple corn or whatever else. They're like, I got nothing. So I emailed them and they got back to me in like 10 minutes. Very tall company. Uh the owners are Ryan and Holly Lewand. They started in April of 2023. So, like, this is a two-year-old company. Wow, yeah. And they're not sourcing this stuff, and they're not sourcing it, they're making it in five-gallon barrels. Okay. So that makes more sense. That's the reason for the for how good it is for only being a year old.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

But still, two years in as a company, yeah, and you're putting this out?

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Yep. Yeah, this is batch number four. So this came out in June of 2025. Okay. So, like last month. Right. The mash bill on this is 75% purple corn, 15 rye, 10 malted barley with a barrel char of four.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Which is alligator char.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Uh, those five.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Uh the or is it in the air? Yeah, it's kind of up in the air. Yeah, but really charred. Really, really charred.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

And so, but which makes more sense too. Yeah. But all four of the releases have all been different mash bills and different char levels. So this is just experimental.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Like they're just trying to figure out five-gallon barrel, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Most of the other ones are char three. This is the first one at char level four.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

I'm liking what they're doing. Yeah. I mean, this is only like not even two years old. Wow. That is 100 proof.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So that it's very, very cool. Uh, the guy, Ryan, is uh a former military, and his wife worked in like the airline system, did a lot of stuff with them. But he's a big glass blower. He really enjoys glass blowing and stuff. So that's kind of a big part of their naming. Do they make their own bottles? They do not. That would be really cool. That would but that is the name of this. So this Didium, it's the glasses that they wear um when they're glass blowing that kind of reflect the light and stuff, and it it gives everything kind of a purplish hue and stuff. And so that's special glasses for glass blowers to wear. Well, yeah, because you're using protect your eyes, yeah. Yeah, malted glass that you're looking at, and so you got like weird goggles or whatever on.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

It's like welders, you gotta do it. I knew it's welders. I just didn't think for glass blowers. Sure, why not?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah, protecting minds. Deepers, deepers. I asked them, I asked them like why, like, where where did you guys come from? Like, why did you start doing this? What's our so they said we started this venture to do something different in bourbon, really explore new flavor profiles? We landed on purple corn for several reasons. No one was doing it that they knew of. The research that we did said it gave a sweet and fruity profile when distilled, which is something I refer I prefer in my bourbons.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

And so that was their answer to why they did the the purple corn. I was really hoping with it being veteran-owned that they went with purple corn for the purple heart. Purple heart, yeah. Yeah, they should lean into that their marketing, really cool.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Well, I mean, I have never heard of purple corn being used in either. I've never even heard of purple corn. I mean, this is as unique as like using that bloody butcher corn, like it's something off the wall like that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

And they're also uh they're going to have, I think, next year, a special release bottle that they're gonna that they're working on too, and it's called the gaffer collection. And a gaffer is like the head glassblower in a in a shop. A gaffer, yeah, gaffer. So they're really leaning into the glass blowing they are okay, and the first batch of that gaffer is is already being made. It's made with 20% amaranth, which is a type of wheat, the special type of wheat amaranth? Amarinth, yeah. What is amaranth? Similar you just said it's a type of wheat, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Similar thing to wheat, so it's just another special type. Sounds like labyrinth and absinthe mixed together.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

It reminds me of watershed doing spelt when they first got started. Yeah, just something different.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Something different, yeah. So the the name of this company is Fire and Flask.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Fire and Flask.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

That's the name of the company. That's the name of the company. Didium Didium thing. Okay. The fire and flask. When I first heard it, I I thought of campfire. But I think they're talking about like the fire used for the glass blowing, yeah. And the flask, same thing. Like you can call like a pitcher a flask, you know what I mean? Right. I think back way back in the day they used to call wine, especially wine if you like pitchers. They call it a flask, but it's been used for a lot of different things. But fire and flask, that's kind of an interesting, cool, cool idea for a name.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

That's a cool concept.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Yeah, the purple corn is sweet, the label's awesome. I I almost think that like if this had like four years of age on it, it might taste way too much, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, well, because this is in those in the gallons.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

This has got so much for uh under two years. I'm just like, this pack's a bit of a punch.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

It does. They do have 15-gallon barrels that they're working on, but those won't be ready until 2027.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

So they're really late.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, so they're taking their time, they're not rushing anything. No, but they have we've talked a few times about different craft distillers and how they go about getting their funding. Like, how are they gonna start? You can bootstrap it, you can come up with your own thing. Um, you have the small barrels, you can get out, get out something. Something else that they're doing is they also have like a founders club. So you can go on their website and join this founders club, and based on how much you pay, get you what you want. Or, you know, get you certain things. There's like a hundred bucks or whatever. That's essentially a gift. You get a bottle and and that kind of thing, and that's kind of it. Which I mean is actually kind of pays for itself almost. Oh, for sure. Yeah, but it goes really high. You know, you can go, you can put in 50 grand or whatever. But when you start getting over, I think it's about 5,000. If you go more than 5,000, then they start adding in yearly unlimited or yearly gifts for life. Basically yearly bottles. You get bottles every every year, or like this Gaffer collection, you get a bottle of that every year as it goes as it keeps going up. The like 50,000 one or whatever. I think you get a case every year or something. So like they're giving you stuff and it's in perpetuity, it's forever. It's kind of a smart thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Can we really can we create one where over a certain amount I'll I'll keep the bottle, but I want a barrel. Yeah. Each year I want to I want a bigger sized barrel over over time and just have it exponentially grow. That's what I would love.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

I mean, and that's a selling point for them too, to be like, you can get in now, and you know, potentially this might go up in price, but or or eventually you might quit doing it. But the selling point is you get in, you help us out now, you're gonna be taken care of for life, kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

As long as we do as long as the company stays in business. I mean, that's the other thing, or it doesn't get sold or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I don't know where they are in Kentucky, but they are in Kentucky. They and he said the northern part of Kentucky. So I think there's a good chance we can get a hold of these guys and do something with them.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

When you Steve, when you first told me about the investing in them, I had a cringe moment of like these guys are new. They're using something unique. I know I've tried this before, but like I don't know that I have that much enough faith to put that much money down to see them go past a couple years. Right? After having this again, it's almost like a reminder of like, no, no, no. Like they they've got something. They're off to a good start. They are, they've got something unique going on, and it's not just uniqueness, right? So they're not just Jeff the Creed where it's uniqueness that they've got going on. It was uh random fluke. Everything that they've done so far that you've talked about, from their mash build to why the purple corn to barrel type, all of that, char level, it's all seems very, very thought out, like very well thought out towards like we've we've planned for the worst, we're hoping for the best right now, which gives me hope for them as a company. Yeah, like they just need to put out more.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, exactly. Um, and they're working on it, right? Exactly. And so that's the thing. With only being two years old, and we have a bottle in our hands that's theirs, it's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

And a good bottle with that. So the people that I've given this to, which has been interesting, I've had three other people try this, all of them on different journeys, different places in their journey for whiskey. The last guy that tried it took a sip of it and said, Yeah, I can tell it's young in bad way or good way. Uh I can just tell it's young and then let it sit for a little bit longer. And his response was, but they're young. So for this being as good as it is for how young they are as a company, gives me hope that over time, with more age or a slight variance in this, it'll become a great model. I think this is a pretty great model for again, two-year-old company. Oh, not even a year and a half old product. This is pretty Oh yeah. This is pretty dang good.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

It's pretty good, yeah. What I don't, I mean, I wouldn't try this and say it tastes like super old or anything like that. But I I mean, I if you would I mean, clearly I didn't know it, but if you would were to tell me ahead of time that this was a year and a half old or whatever, I would have told you even just based on the color of this. No.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Because it's very dark. It's very dark. You don't get that without some age in a barrel, you know. Um, and it it doesn't taste super old and it doesn't taste super mature, but it what it does taste is it's got a lot of flavor. Like, I wouldn't have it. It's pretty potent, yeah. So first thing I wouldn't say is this is young, you know what I mean? We've tried things with some age on it. I'm like, this is young, you know what I mean? This is doesn't taste like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

No, but I thought it smelled young, but I don't think it tastes that young. The smell does not it it smells with the taste.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

It smells a little young. It also has it has a very aromatic nose, like like it's gonna be flavored, like even artificially, and it's not on the taste at all. But on the nose, I thought you guys were giving me some sort of flavored whiskey. I thought, what is and based on the the way the bottle looks, you could uh almost see that, you know. But I'm not getting that at all.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

I think what uh excites me the one thing that excites me the most about this bottle is the the knowledge that there's still potential out there for new stuff, for good new whiskey, not your everyday hum ho we used yellow den corn. Cool. Uh so did everyone else, you know. Uh and then going to the extent of like purple corn, great, we're gonna push it past that to we're gonna try a different variant for wheat. That'll be very interesting to see how that plays out. Because red corn has red corn has taken off. Uh Jeff the Creed, when uh it could be prior to that, but I feel like when Jeff the Creed kind of hit shelves, people were like, ooh, red corn's a thing. I could do red corn. I I'm gonna go after red corn, I'm gonna find red corn. Distilleries are like, I could use red corn, and people are not gonna be upset with this. Then you have like Garrison Brothers that do like white corn, and they're like, Oh, we could do white corn, let's try something else. And it's almost like you hit every corn variant that I knew of. I didn't know this existed. I'm also not mad that you tried something new, because again, it allows for the opportunity, it opens the door for opportunity for more and more companies to say, small companies to say, let's try something unique, let's try something different, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Well, I think it's just interesting that there's still ingredients out there. I mean, even like this simple of an idea of an ingredient, uh, like just purple corn, but there's still stuff out there that people haven't used or aren't using. There's still like just when you think it's all been done, right? That people are still kind of coming out with like something completely and utterly, not just tweaked here and there, but completely new. I mean, 75% purple corn, not just a little bit of purple corn, or like you know, like we're going all in on something nobody's doing, nobody's really tried. And it's good, and it's good, and it's noticeably different. You can tell that this isn't like the dent corn, you know what I mean? Like, this is not it's just like when you try the bloody butcher. Like this, there's something special about this corn, and that's what this is. I mean, I don't know what else is they're doing that's I mean, could be the five-gallon barrels, could be the char, could be all the every everything playing together, but this is very different, and I think that it's heavily equated to the purple corn, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Well, he mentioned like uh like a sweet, fruity kind of feel to it, and I think that's pretty on. I I think this is a sweeter bourbon and has like fruitier kind of notes, kind of like a cherry almost, is kind of what I get off of it, and so it has like that uh uniqueness of that, but then this one has like 15 rye. Uh the last one had only five percent rye, so like they've kind of hopped around that a little bit, but that rye content being bumped up a touch, I think, helped.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

I thought it was 10. Is it 15? That's that's pretty weighty on the rye, yeah. 7515, 1015, okay, 10 malt. I mean, I think that they pick the proportions out perfectly. I think any more or less rye, it would they've done 80% of the purple corn and five rye, and they've messed around with five between five and ten.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

But would you say that the rye's very noticeable or potent in here? No, I think it just maybe makes it less sweet. Like I'm hoping that like that that's kind of evening out that sweetness a little bit. I think it's just giving it a little bit more like weight, filling it out just a little bit. I'd be interested in trying their batch number two, which was 80%. My math hasn't math in here. They have 80% purple corn, five rye, five malted barley. But that's we're still missing 10% or something. Yeah, so maybe that was also 15, maybe it's maybe it's still 15.5.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

So I maybe I missed it, maybe you guys mentioned it. How did we come across this bottle?

SPEAKER_00 21:48

So that was that was the thing of I Brent and I randomly found this bottle online, like trying to search of like what corn has been used for like unique corn for for companies. Bourbon. And I never thought that I would find it today, even this close to when we talked about it. It was probably like a year ago, maybe two years ago at most. But I didn't think I'd ever find it in a store. And party source had this bottle.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

So you randomly saw this online one time and thought, okay, if I ever get a chance. And then you walked into I heard that part. So you walked into party stores. Party stores and it was sitting there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

It was sitting there. They had like a kiosk for like local Kentucky. In fact, it said bottles you won't find in Ohio because it's the party source that's like right down around Covington. Covington, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was hilarious. That's a good spot, actually.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah. They've only been online, but they've partnered with like two or three Kentucky base retailers and said we'll we'll sell our stuff just on.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

I was gonna say, where where else are they selling their stuff?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Just party source, total wine, and then there was another, there was a third one.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Um because they don't have that many bottles.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, they just don't have that many bottles, so you can't get it too many places. So you picked it up, and Steve, you reached out and they responded. Yeah, after we got this, and I was doing my research, like I said, there was just there was nothing anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Gotta love a 10-minute respawn.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Right, oh yeah. And we went back and forth a couple of times, so throughout the the last the next couple of days on different things. Because I was like, hey, we're you know, we've done barrel picks and stuff before. What you know, haven't tried this yet, but if we wanted to, what does that look like? And then they told me it was five-gallon barrels. Like, well, when we get those 15s, we'll we'll talk then.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

But five gallons would be interesting as a barrel pick. That would be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

20 bottles. We only have 20.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

So especially if we want cast strength. This at cast strength would be interesting. I'd be curious on because it's already at 100 proof. Yeah, they're not they're probably not proving it down. So yeah, they're not proofing it too much, but I'd be curious on what flavors would be amplified.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

I'm also curious to what the what they pull like what this comes out at, like what they're pulling it off at.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Oh, putting it in, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah, what what it comes out at.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Did they say what they were putting in the barrel? They did not. It's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah. So what okay, so let's talk. Do we talk about the price of it? Yeah, what is the price?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

I I don't remember off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Well, while Nick is looking that up, yeah. So this is um, I just looked it up. It's it's one of their best sellers, always has been. It's always in like the top 25 on smoking pipes. Our tobacco? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So our Dunhill Flake, yeah. Dunhill Flake. Uh they say it's medium medium strength, but it's uh different grades of lemon Virginia and Bronze Virginia. And they they they blend it together. They say it's one of their most expert blends that they offer. But the reviews are just, I mean, outstanding on this thing, which I'd never tried. I figured it was a vapor, but it looks like it's just a it's just straight Virginia's. Uh, but it's it is mixed, but it was so like it's like one of their best sellers. So like when Peterson picked it up, it was one of the ones that definitely got got traction. But what do you think about it so far? I think it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

I agree, I like it a lot. It's basic, but good. Like you said, it's it's just a straight Virginia, so it just kind of has that one-notedness to it. But but kind of like our bottle here having a specialty corn, this using the lemon and the bronze Virginias and stuff, I think that kind of adds something to it.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Right. And what and that's what Virginia, so when you start smoking straight Virginias is especially, that's something that takes a really long time. And a lot of people, the problem with Virginias is they're very underappreciated. And then there's like five percent of pipe smokers or or whatever. When you get to that point where they're very appreciated, there's no in between because Virginia, straight Virginians are very, very hard to learn how to smoke. It takes a long time to figure out what what to appreciate about it. And a lot of that goes missed by like newer pipe smokers, especially. Like the things that really should make this special, you're not even gonna pick up, right? Not you, but I mean most people. So a lot of people will end up dipping their toes into a Virginia, straight Virginia, and they're they're either you're like, ah, this isn't that good, or even like, I hate this. It's so blasé, it's like whatever. It's I mean, it's smoking too hot. I'm not getting much flavor, it's boring, whatever. But all those things, when you start to smoke it the right way and figuring out what it is and starting to pull out certain flavors and stuff, they're so unique. I mean, Virginia tobacco is so nuanced. And if you really, really dive into it, I mean, and you really start picking up flavors and stuff. And and they're actually very limited, like the good ones are, and that's the other thing. You can get different grades of Virginias that you're like, okay, this was okay, but this was like amazing. Same leaf, right? But like this is amazing, and this one was just okay. Kind of when you start talking about different ingredients that go into mash bills and things like that. So, as far as straight Virginias go, it just does take a long time. But most people, you know, it's that 5%, like the people that have been piping for a long, long time that are like, oh man, a good, you know, straight Virginia, like the one we're gonna try at some point, this uh for Virginia Flake, the Samuel Gow with. I mean, that thing is like legendary, but a lot of people end up trying it, and you'll see reviews like what's the deal, right? You know what I mean? Um, which I've never actually cracked, I've never tried it. But a lot of people will say, like, oh, what's the deal? I mean, I don't get it with these Virginias. Why people hype them up and then you try them and they're nothing. And I used to feel that way too. Um, but the last maybe four years or so, I started kind of dipping my toes a little bit more. And man, it really does. When you give it a chance and you smoke it right and you pack it right, and you start kind of doing your research on it, you really start to appreciate those full Virginia flakes.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

And I noticed, and you you mentioned packing, and this is a flake tobacco, so it's kind of a unique way of packing, also, because it comes in those sheets like that. And we did two different methods here. You rubbed it out and kind of broke it all, and I just kind of I fold and fold stuff. Just fold and stuff. So, what's kind of the and you're do you do both of them depending on timing?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

It just depends on the pipe I'm using, it depends on the mood I'm in, depends on the type of smoke I want, because it doesn't matter how the moisture content of something is. If you fold it and stuff it, it's gonna burn differently than if you rub it out. And even when you rub it out, there's like the way I rubbed it out was it still left it very like long and thick. Still big pieces, yeah. You can rub it out to where it's really, really small. I mean, and then it's all gonna change, right? But basically, what it comes down to is the more it's rubbed out, the faster it's gonna burn.

unknown 28:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

The less it is, the slower. So the folding and stuffing method for Virginia makes perfect sense because they will burn hot if you're not careful. And most people just want to puff, puff, puff, puff, puff. They're not actually tasting and sipping the tobacco, which is really what you want in a Virginia. You want it, you want that to take its time. It doesn't matter if it goes out, right? But what you want to do is what you don't want to do is burn your mouth and burn the tobacco. So folding and stuffing, it just requires more patience and more technique uh to keep it lit and and and you know, and relighting it and everything else, and not to over-tamp it, not under tamp it. It just takes a lot, but it slows down the burning process, which is what you need in a tobacco like this.

unknown 29:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Um, you can fold it out, just be careful not to, you gotta sip it.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Because you you're if you know the guys get over there and they're puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, and the next thing you know, their mouse on fire. Well, you kind of did that to yourself. Like it's not the tobacco's fault, right? Like gasoline burns too, you know. So something to think about, you know. But this is what you're looking for, yeah. So, but I do like uh I it just depends on the day. Yeah, I like to, and I will like at some point I'll fold and stuff this. I like to try them differently. I've had some flakes where I'm like, this should always be folded out or folded and stuffed, and then I've had some where I'm like, this should always be rubbed out. I've had some where I've put it in my coffee grinder and kind of spritzed it up a little bit, yeah, and it's like a little bit more ribbon cut. And I'm like, and I'm smoked, I'm like, this is pretty dang good here, you know. So I mean, you just never know like how you're gonna do it. But I've tried different ways of folding it, I've rolled it up and stuffed it in. Like, there's a lot of different things you can do. But it depends on the pipe, too. Right. Does it go pretty well with this? Yeah, it's actually going super well with this, I think, because it is a it's just a straight Virginia. Uh there's a lot of flavor going on, but it's nothing, it's not a whole lot of up and ups and downs. It's just would you say it's more the spice to the sweet, like kind of leveling that out? It's not very spicy. Um I think it's just uh it's like mashed potatoes, and when you eat a steak or something, you know what I mean? It's it's not bad, it's not good, it's just complementing it. You can have one, yeah, you can have one without the other. Um, but together it just makes more of a full experience. A full meal. Yeah, full experience.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Steak is fine by itself, but you can throw mashed potatoes in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

I mean, I don't think the whiskey is amplifying the pipe, and I don't think the pipe's amplifying the whiskey. I just think that they're both hanging out at the same time and having a good time at it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

I did. What do you what would you guys pay for this? I'm curious before I say that.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

So yeah, that's the thing. That's the that's the killer on it, and then I'm trying to figure out what my number is. I think it's for sure like a $50 bottle. 50 60. But yeah, I think I think that's about where it should be.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

It's about $5060.

unknown 31:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

I was gonna say, so what I think it should be like what I would pay for it, 50-60? Closer to the 60, probably. Yeah. Inflation and stuff. What I think they're selling it at based on everything I'm looking at. Closer to 80. Probably 80. Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. 85. Yep. 85? Yeah, yeah. Which I'm not and I'm not saying that that's a bad price. I'm not saying it, Joe. I'm just saying that you got a small tax. Yeah, there's there's a small tax here.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Well, yeah, I also feel like 85 is justifiable in the sense of you made a joke. If we do a five-gallon barrel, we get 20 bottles. Yeah, so if you're you're getting very small, yeah, well, you're putting it in small higher proof again. Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

You know, they're selling they're this is a five-gallon barrel, and they're and they're they're taming it down to 100 proof, they're probably still only getting 50 bottles out of that barrel.

unknown 32:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

And so, you know, 50, 60 by bottles.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Well, and we've mentioned it before. So, like bigger companies can put out something that you know is still gonna be 60 dollars. They and they mass produce these things. So, but what it costs people like Jim Beam to put out a bottle like this is gonna cost these guys more. Yeah, so they've gotta charge more. So, there is that small, that small guy tax, it has more to do than just a we only we have a limited out, we need to get our money, we need to do this, we need to do that. Yeah, because if you factor bottles are more expensive, you're yeah, yeah. You factor in, I can only put out this many bottles, I need to charge this much. That makes sense. But also, this cost me X amount to make, but this would cost other people less than that, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

You can't buy it in bulk, you can't buy as much of the stuff, not mass producing this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

I actually would never want a large company to do this because I don't think they could do it. They wouldn't. No, I don't think they could do the purple corn well.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Any large company tried to do this, it would still be $60 and it wouldn't taste this way. So you gotta it's worth the extra $20. You know what I mean? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

And as we keep going, like later on, we're gonna talk about somebody who's doing a red corn. Spoiler alert.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Spoiler alert.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

But uh, we're gonna talk about like the yield on some of these specialty corns and stuff is not as much, right? So the bigger, like a gym beamer or whatever, probably is never gonna be playing around in this area just because they won't be able to get the amount of corn in each other.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yeah, they're they're not looking for a for a whoops. I recently found out a co-worker of mine loves going to like farmer markets, right? She likes trying the different weird stuff. Well, she found a local farm around here that sells white corn. It's not sweet corn, it's it's white corn is its own strain, right? It's its own thing. They only have enough to last three to four weeks and then they're out. Like it's a very small short window of when they're like how much they can yield and how long they can sell it, and you know, all of that. And I started asking questions like, well, why? Like what what makes this so special, right? Well, apparently, white corn uh the reason you have like blended corn is because white corn is so timid, I guess you could say, as a corn, where it's like, hey, I'll be friends with everyone. So overall, like pollination from other corns into white corn is very common. So they have to do it in very small sections and at certain times of the year, so it doesn't pollinate with other stuff and they get just pure white corn, which got me thinking Garrison Brothers is 80-90 bucks a bottle, but they're white corn in Texas. The price tag starts to make a little bit more sense when you start looking at the crop yield for some of these special stuff. Of like, I didn't think about that. Kind of makes a little bit more sense why your your bottle price is a little bit more. I don't know what I've never heard of purple corn. I asked her about it and she goes, Oh yeah, I've I've seen purple corn. Really? It's like heirloom carrots. Yeah, yeah. Well, I asked her, I said, really, where have you seen it? Oh, it's on like the rainbow corn. So it's not just straight, like they had like straight purple corn. Like, what was the price tag of getting just straight purple corn? Like, what's the process to get that?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Can't be easy, you know. But speaking of Texas, Texas has their own tax as well. There's a Texas tax, I think. Oh, you have you ever noticed that? Like, like bottles in Texas are great, don't get me wrong, but they are expensive, they are not cheap. Like, I've never seen a good bottle, a really good bottle out of Texas for under $80, right? Am I wrong? I mean, even look at Balcone, like Balcon. I wonder why that is. I never thought about that. Garrison Brothers gets way the F up there. Now it gets great, but it's even their like lower end stuff. 7580 bucks, yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, you try something, you're like, this is so great. Like, I would be so pumped to get this for 80. And then you're like, oh, it's 210. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. I've done that many times with Garrison Brothers. I'm like, this is gonna be so good. Because I'm looking at them like, I know what this is priced gonna be. And you're like, oh man, that's a bit steep. That one's a bit steep. Well, that's not just them. That's every I every distillery in Texas is like that. They are all a little bit, a little bit more than what you said.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

What if they have a really high liquor tax or something there? Which would be which would be weird in Kentucky.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Maybe they don't yield as much because with the evaporation, the heat and stuff, maybe they don't get as much out of the barrel. There's probably reasons. They don't have income tax, right? They don't have sales tax. Sales tax.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Is it sales tax or income tax?

SPEAKER_01 37:25

They don't have an income tax. They may or may not have a sales tax. I wonder if income tax they don't have an income tax.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

No, but property is extremely taxes are extremely.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

I would live there and not own property. That's a rent state tax. You're saying you don't have to pay taxes on your income?

unknown 37:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

There's a couple of states like that. Tennessee is the.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Like I never really sat and thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

State tax only. You still have to pay the federal taxes. And so, you know, this is Ohio. You're your ours is two and a half percent in Ohio. So it's not that much, but still, it's a lot more than a couple pennies we've got over years ago, right? That's a lot. So, but yeah, um, Washington, Texas, Tennessee, and maybe New Hampshire or something like this. A New England state. There's like four or five states that are income tax-free. Wow. But Florida, Florida's another one, yeah. I will say, but they all the states that have no income tax, because like Ohio is trying to say that too. It shouldn't happen here because the states that don't have an income tax have like a big tax thing to bring in money. So Texas has oil and gas, yeah, Florida has Disney World and vacations and beaches, and yeah, and weirdos. So, like, there's there's lots of like there's stuff to bring in a lot of money, and Ohio doesn't have that.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Tennessee, the tourist D type stuff, tour.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, we have Gatlinburg and Gatlinburg, sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

But like, so we were down in Tennessee, the wife and I, and went to liquor stores, and I didn't pay attention until I got the receipts afterwards. Nine, I think it was nine and a half to nine point seven percent tax, sales tax, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

You'll also get higher taxes around that Gatlinburg area, like those service charges on there if you're not careful. Yeah, yeah, you gotta watch that. You're like you'll double tip if you're not careful.

unknown 39:22

Yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

But but yeah, I don't know. Weird stuff with all these all these things about yeah, but I was just saying, all the cleanups, yeah. I was just bringing up Texas, but but I don't know. But getting back to this, I all about the weird corn, yeah. But coming back to like specialty corns and I is this worth it? Yeah, it is. It actually really is, and I think it'd be harder to pull the money, like pull the trigger on the $85 when you've never had it.

unknown 39:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Luckily, I think that party source may may let you try it. I don't know. I don't know. But if you if you got to try this beforehand, I don't think you'd have any qualms about spending 85 bucks on it. Yeah, yeah, especially if you kind of knew a little bit more about it. I I I really like this, and I'd like to go uh and see what they're doing. Like I mean, it sounds like a very small operation, but I like small. Like I I really like to kind of see, and then obviously as they grow, they're gonna do more things there because it sounds like they've just kind of been sticking with this and doing different iterations of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Yep, yeah, they've been doing a batch method for just their regular stuff, and then they have this specialty thing they're gonna do yearly.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

I think once they figure out well, you know, what's good like out of all of those, they're probably gonna stick with it and go into something else.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Will the specialty one change in mash bill? Because they're using that I think so. Yeah, I think they'll continue to change those too. I'm not disappointed with that idea.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

I I kind of like that idea because it does add especially at this point when you're like trying to figure out what your flavor's gonna be and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Like well, it also adds in the the rebuy factor, right? So it adds in the idea of like, I already bought one bottle and I want to support you, but at least 85 bucks a pop. Like, I'm not gonna, I don't know how often I'm gonna get this. I'm not gonna finish it that often. The 85 bucks a pop, it's a little bit more for me to want to spend without drinking. Now it's 85 bucks a pop, but this is gonna taste different from that bottle. Yeah, that batch is gonna taste different from this one, and not just even down to the mash bill, but even the char level. Like, we're we're gonna stretch it out to make uh an idea to experiment with this idea of what changes what in flavor, and then find out what we like. Okay, I will be curious if they try they're doing this to try to find out what they like or if this is their model that they're gonna keep doing. Yeah, that would be even more interesting. It almost reminds me of uh still 630. Yeah, um very experimental, always changing things up. Yep. But instead of doing like experimental like Fridays of like what do you guys like? Here we do it in five-gallon barrels that this is what we sell. Like this is this is just kind of our experimental series, quote unquote, that we sell these bottles off versus just little samplers of it.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

So I mean, good, good bourbon, good yeah, a little uh good uh we'll definitely be reaching out to them again. I think, like I said, if they're in northern Kentucky, it shouldn't be more than probably two or three hours or so to get to them. Yeah, especially northern Kentucky. Yeah, it would be probably less than I I would think under three hours, I bet to drive there.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

So two and a half to two. If I drive, we went to jump the creed, so we could do this.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yeah, we can do this, no problem. So yeah, we'll probably be I I I wouldn't be surprised if they show up in our feed in the future. And so we'd be upset if they don't. Right, exactly. Yes. Well, awesome. All right, gents. Until next time. Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspot.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.