Doc Whiskey!

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Hello while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of the Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_07 0:29

Okay, so we're moving on to another bottle.

unknown 0:32

Another bottle.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

Where are they cut all that?

SPEAKER_07 0:37

Yeah, we're recording the whole time. New bottle. We find it's great to start. So hello, welcome everyone, uh, to a new episode. We've got Bob and we've got Herm back, and and Chris is already getting into his tin. We've been waiting too long. I want to, I'm ready to smoke. We have got a bottle that I cannot, I can barely find any information on this guy. Doc whiskey. Not Doc Holiday, not Doc Swinson's. This is Doc Whiskey. All right. So buckle in. Buckle in here. This took me probably two hours last night to try to figure out where this guy came from. On the back of it, it says bottled by a winery. I forget the winery name. Copper Mountain. Or no, sorry, uh Best Vineyards. Best Vineyards in Indiana, some uh somewhere in Indiana, Elizabeth Town or Elizabeth something, Indiana. But then it's put out by Elizabeth, like that movie, Elizabeth Town? It's put out by Copper Mountain. So it is sold by Copper Mountain. Bottled bottle.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Bottled by Best Vineyards.

SPEAKER_07 1:43

Yeah, bottled by Best Vineyards. And they proudly boast that this is Lawrenceburg MGP product.

SPEAKER_05 1:50

You lost me like two brands ago. I don't understand what's going on. Some sort of money-making scheme.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

It kind of feels like the old school whiskeys that it was like, oh, well, this person was a, you know, I can't back in the way, way back at pre-prohibition, and was like, oh, this person was an apothecary, and then they this other person was a like a third-party distributor, and then they just started their own whiskey brand. Yeah. That's kind of what it feels like. I mean, in the in the the the kind of the marketing on the bottle, very aged, like very kind of antique style.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

It is very uh pharmaceutical kind of a bottle. Dock whiskey, like for your ailments.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

We talked about tax stamp white labeling. So white labeling of getting MGP product or another product from someone, and then just simply bottling it, putting a label on it that says it's mine, but it's not really mine. This company, when I say this company, Copper Mountain Beverage Company is who owns this? All of their product, their liquor is all white labeled, proudly stating that it's MGP product down to their limoncello is MGP product.

SPEAKER_05 2:57

So they're where they're are they white labeling then? Yes. So they're not doing anything to it, they're just bottle buying and bottling. Okay. If anybody's wondering, if you haven't listened to the last the last couple podcasts, it's white labeling is when a company sources a whiskey and doesn't do anything to it other than put it in a bottle and slap their label on it. That's it. So they didn't age it. There are some themselves, they didn't finish it, they didn't, they didn't mix it, they didn't blend it, they didn't nothing.

SPEAKER_07 3:22

They did nothing with it.

SPEAKER_05 3:23

They literally bought it and re rebranded it and sold it.

SPEAKER_07 3:27

We're gonna make this even more interesting. All of the stuff for Doc Whiskey, everything they put in these bottles is uncut, unfiltered, single barrel.

SPEAKER_05 3:34

That sounds awesome. But my question to you is why did we why are we doing this?

SPEAKER_07 3:38

Dude, this is fantastic. So it gets even crazier. So Copper uh Copper Mountain, Copper Mountain Beverage Company is out of Indiana, but they have another bottle called uh Copper Still that's the same way, and it's a white labeling. But if you go to Copper Still's website, they're out of New Zealand, and the two things, the two whiskeys on their website is this and the Copper Still whiskey, and they sell like crazy in New Zealand, but proudly boast it's Indiana bourbon. I mean, it is Indiana bourbon. But what what what is happening? MGP, you know, doesn't get much more Indiana than that. No, this is the weirdest, and not to mention MGP has like five mash bills that they stick.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

The stuff is dry in it and her.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Yeah, so uh yeah, not to interrupt, yeah. I was thinking, I was thinking this, and when you said it, so this, so this is we're we're we're uh smoking. It's a crumble cake, but yeah, it's a it's a crumble cake of hearth and home, and it's called 10 to midnight, and it's an English blend, it's a little heavier uh Oriental English blend, I believe. Yeah, Balkan. Uh definitely, yeah. And so it's got a lot more richness to it than the the other one that we had smoked from Hearth and Holm. But yeah, very, very dry. I've never had like a crumble cake that actually crumbled. Uh it's very, very dry, and like it just kind of just it very much just kind of crumbled up.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

Almost crunchy. Yeah, it's like a granola, which I've I've had this before when it was like fresh and it was moist, like a cake. Should be. This is dry. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, with it being English, though, I feel like it'll smoke better.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

I thought it'll be better because of the oils and stuff with a lot of Kia.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

This is basically the the the match blend for Penzance.

SPEAKER_07 5:18

This will be interesting to see what you guys think with this whiskey. It might make it better. Well, that didn't sound good. No, I am sorry. Yeah, that sounds good. I don't mean that in a bad way. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

Hopefully, it makes it better.

SPEAKER_07 5:27

Here's what's super interesting about that. That the one of the reasons why I found this. It was at Tipsy's, one of the top shelf bottles. I've never seen it before. And I said, Hey, buddy, what is this? And he literally looks at me and goes, I don't know. This came with this store that I bought. It's the only bottle that we have. I've never seen it before. I don't buy it in, I don't know what it is, it's never sold. And so I was like, let's take a risk, let's see. And I think it was like maybe 30, 40 bucks, if that. It's a three-year-old single barrel, uncut, unfiltered out of MGP. If you know anything about MGP and lit heard us talk about it, MGP is proud on the 95 and 5 mash bill for rye. That's their thing. That's one of their mash bills. Can't go wrong with 95 and 5. Yeah, they also do a high rye mash bill of 60 corn, 36 rye for barley. So they're they're proud for those two, they're like known for those two things. Bullet. Bullet's gonna be your high rye bourbon. So they they do high rye and their rye is 95 and 5. Well, then they jump into like low rye bourbon, not very heard of. But then they also started doing this light whiskey, which is 99 corn, one barley. The one thing that I think I've always argued that I don't see come out of MGP is a weeded bourbon.

SPEAKER_05 6:38

We have talked about that, they don't do much in as far as we even even high wheated.

SPEAKER_07 6:43

So this is a weeded, this is 51 corn, 45 wheat, and 4% barley.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

So still a bourbon, but it's still a bourbon. This is heavy, heavy wheat.

SPEAKER_07 6:53

This is 45% wheat.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

It's very MGP, isn't it? On the nose.

SPEAKER_07 6:57

We're getting very close to being like a wheat whiskey at that point.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

It's almost like a guy, like it's I don't want to say sour, but it does have like a sourness to the nose. Like a little tang.

SPEAKER_07 7:08

You like that?

SPEAKER_05 7:09

I do. Okay. I'm really surprised by that.

SPEAKER_07 7:13

In what way? I don't know if that's a good surprise, bad surprise, or I'm not sure surprise.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

Let me have a few more six. Okay. I'm I'm really I kind of just threw like it was like a oodaloop. Like I really just kind of threw a curveball at me. I was expecting like a strike down the middle. So, what's interesting about this?

SPEAKER_07 7:30

That I the more I started researching, again, it took me forever to figure out and find this because everything you see doc whiskey is either Doc Holiday, which is really big, but that's also MGP. That one's coming. Um, Doc Holiday is coming out of World Whiskey Society that sources everything. The other Doc is Doc Swinson, which is also sourcing out of MGP, but they try to do finishings, different things. No one knows what Doc Whiskey is to the point where I found you just made up the name or something. So I found the Copper Mountain Beverage Company. It was one of the first ones I found, and it looked like it was just an all-nine retailer. It took me forever to realize this was their product.

SPEAKER_05 8:07

Is it one of those companies that bought like some barrels and then put their name on it and so disappeared as a couple of things?

SPEAKER_07 8:16

This is where things are super interesting. Is they they continue to do this, but again, this is big in New Zealand. This is not big in like America. New Zealand goes crazy for this, claiming it's it is Indiana, proud Indiana bourbon, is what they see it as New Zealand pretty similar to like Australia.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

Yeah, they drink beer over there in Ontario.

SPEAKER_07 8:33

Right. So this beverage company got started out with malt liquor. That makes that that checks out. That was their very first thing that they got. The Aussies. Yes. Uh they're in fact, their malt liquor was something odd.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

Foster's Australian Phobia.

SPEAKER_07 8:48

Uh 4-0. Not 4 loco.

SPEAKER_05 8:51

I'm pretty sure it's 4-0. I bet they took 4 loco, the original recipe, and threw the name 4.0 on it and sold it. Yeah. And those guys are so good, they're so good majored over there that they're not gonna cause they're not gonna cause a ruckus. I I've heard people in Australia are like super chill.

SPEAKER_07 9:08

But again, this is this is an American company, but selling overseas mostly. Their big they their biggest following is over there, just like an international distribution company.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

And then now they've just they're like, oh, we'll just we'll buy some MGP, we'll put our name on it. That's very much what it feels like. That very like that third-party distributor. Oh, well, we're we're already like we work with MGP on other things. Why not just buy some whiskey and put our label on it and ship it overseas?

SPEAKER_07 9:33

They the thing they got started with was 4-0 Street Legal malt liquor.

SPEAKER_05 9:38

Second sip's different than the first sip.

SPEAKER_07 9:40

Copper still and the mallet. Those are the the mallet, those are the other two that they do. I want to try the mallet. It's 180 proof. Everything so you see this labeling, it looks very much like old pharmaceutical.

SPEAKER_05 9:53

It's a great hammer shot to your clear, they just put the mallet on the label.

SPEAKER_07 9:58

Everything they do is this kind of style. They go after the advertising.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

I can't pinpoint that taste.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

It's different, right? Yeah, yeah. Not something I expected out of MGP. That's what I'm kind of like thrown thrown off. But it smells like MGP, but it doesn't taste like I expect a highly weeded bourbon to taste. That's what I can't get. It's throwing me for a loop because it's very um. And if you sit there and really think about it, you can pull out a lot of flavor. But also, if you were to just throw it back, you could miss it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:27

Oh, this should be easy to throw back and miss.

SPEAKER_05 10:29

You'd miss it. You'd miss you, you'd be like, okay, I'm just drinking something, you know. But if you really sit there and contemplate and take your time and let it kind of linger over all the taste buds and everything else, then it's you know, kind of experience the the swallowing and the and and everything else. And yeah, not much aftertaste, but there is some. But it is very kind of not what I would expect a weeded, a weeded bourbon to be. It's there's something different going on there.

SPEAKER_07 10:53

Herm, were you on for the French lake, the William Dalton? I was not, but I've had it. You've had it. You've also had the kneely one. The the Neely brothers, yeah. The yeah, so you had the Nealie, the and that was a weeded single barrel older than this guy, but that did not drink like a weed. I think we all said that that those don't drink like a weeded bourbon. They're they're there's more of a punch to it. This is about the same mash bill as those.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

It's got a punch in the back of the throat. Yes, yes. I would not ever expect a weeded to do that.

SPEAKER_07 11:23

Do you think it drinks like a weed?

SPEAKER_05 11:24

It's not a hard punch, but there is something that's going on when you when you swallow that has more fl it's more of an aggressive flavor than I would expect a highly weeded bourbon to do.

SPEAKER_07 11:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 11:34

Especially something out of MGP.

SPEAKER_07 11:36

The then so that's the catch for me is out of MGP. Like, this is this is weird.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Right. That's what's that's what's really throwing me off. It's it's good. I like it. Did we talk about the price yet?

SPEAKER_07 11:46

I think I paid maybe 30.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

It's been it's been a long time since I've gotten something from MGP that I was like, I like this. Not not that I don't like MGP, it's just it's not it's whatever.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Do you think it's different from the expected because it's 118 proof? I think it's actually closer to I think it's 117 proof. 116.88. Nice. So I mean I've always told you this.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

I've always said the higher proofs coming out of MGP are better than their lower proofs.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

I would agree.

SPEAKER_05 12:16

So maybe, but it's just not weeded. Like I just don't get those flavors that you typically get with a weed, the cream, the creaminess, creaminess, like buttery, and the butt, the buttery kind of, you know, and then all you know, you get all those, you know, bourbon flavors.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

So for me, I think I'm gonna be the outlier and say I don't, I'm not, I'm not a huge fan.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

Well, I'm not saying I like it. Yeah, I'm just saying it's different.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

I think for me, it has there's some kind of bitterness to it. So you're saying you don't like it, or you I don't, I don't think I do, yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't, I'm not saying I hate it, it's terrible. Uh, I just doesn't do a lot for me. Like after the last, you know, episode, it's just so much like there's just not a lot to it. It definitely has a little punch to it um with the proof, I think. But it's there's some kind of bitterness to it for me, and it and it's not like a bad, like sour, kind of really like off-putting bitter. It's like almost like salty bitter. Yeah, I guess is kind of the yeah, I get what you're saying. It's hard to, it's hard to pinpoint, and like and like he was saying, like Bob was saying, is like I can't put my finger on the flavor of what it is, but it that's really all I kind of get, and then it's kind of gone, and it's like really quick, it's boom, boom, gone there's not much of a finish, and there's just not a lot of finish, there's not a lot of body to it. So for me, I I think it I mean, all things considered, the marketing and like, oh, it's cool label. I would look at the bottle and maybe consider it, but after having it, I wouldn't, I wouldn't probably buy this bottle personally.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

I haven't decided if I like it yet or not. Uh I'm gonna wait a little bit, but it is, I get what you're saying, and it is kind of that saltiness is kind of strange. But I don't know if I don't I think I like it because it is different, that that aspect of it. But it is kind of salt, almost like a candy, like a salted caramel. Yeah, like a candy assault.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

It does have a little bit of sweetness to it too, but there's of like the it's like it's like a salted caramel that somebody put a little too much salt in for me.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Yeah, I know what it reminds me of now. It's a salted, it's a toffee, like a salted toffee.

SPEAKER_07 14:13

Like a salt water tap, a toffee?

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Yeah, but it's like one of those ones that like your grandma would have made back in the day, you know, like the handmade toffee. Like a more of a semi-sweet, and then there's salt on it. With a little bit of salt in it. It because it's taking me back to like uh farm times when my when my grandma would make that.

SPEAKER_05 14:30

I knew it was I I knew it was somewhere, get what you're saying, and that's what it is. And it's got then after you get those flavors, for me, what I get is the the kind of the the bite or the strength from the proof, which I appreciate. And then it kind of the at what little bit of aftertaste is there, it's almost like a wood smoke, kind of kind of an aftertaste. You get that, it's drying, it's very it's a drying kind of like oak, kind of like kind of like oak smoke, yeah. Like the smoke from it. Like if you've ever burned up a pile of oak.

SPEAKER_07 15:02

Like you're sitting in the in the smoke, like the smoke is coming into your face, kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Okay, like when you're like when you're out and you're like you've chopped down some some some some wood and stuff. It's not just the leaves and stuff, because it's not leaves, but it's like actual like kind of wet wood that's being burnt in the yard. That that kind of heavy, heavy smoke, a little bit of that smoke, yeah. And but then it fades. There's really not a whole lot, it's not a lasting finish. There's really it's kind of like very quickly gone.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

For me, I think which sounds crazy coming out of my mouth, but the I feel like this would benefit from being at a lower proof, like being proof down, I think would benefit this because I think the flavors are so subtle, yeah, and they are they you can tell they're there, but they so quickly get overpowered by the proof. Like, and I I love the proof and I like I like higher proof pretty much everything. But for me, I think if this was lowered down to like maybe even like a 101, you know, just a tiny bit, I would be interested to see how much the flavor profile would change. I think you would get a lot more of that like creamy, sweet toffee versus the kind of like the like that hot burn and like it goes away really quick.

SPEAKER_05 16:14

I think that salty aspect might kind of be amplified too. We gotta throw some water in it, a couple of drops of water in it, see.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

So it'd be like a like a toffee that grandma burnt, would you say?

SPEAKER_05 16:25

I don't think it's a burnt. So when I say like wood smoke, I don't mean like the burnt aspects of it, like not like a scotch or anything like that. It's more like that dry, like the dry smoke that kind of blows. You're not sitting in front of it, all of a sudden you get a whiff of it as it blows in the wind a little bit and hits you in the face. If you've ever been out like cutting, cutting wood down, like I used to do that for like a summer job. Uh we literally just cut down uh trees and then we chopped them up and then we would burn uh the parts we didn't want. And it wasn't like the branches and stuff, it was like actual the actual wood. And I would get hit with the like little hits of that like wood smoke. Yeah, that's what I equated to like wood smoke, but it was a live tree, so it's like a little bit greener. So it's live, like almost like live wood, like fresh wood. Yeah, so it's not like wet wood, but it's like not dry, you know what I mean? But that little hits of those like it's wood smoke. That's the only thing I can think of to describe it, and it's right at the end and it's very barely there, and then it's gone. Like it really kind of like fades out to nothing, and you kind of forgot that you were drinking anything at all, and then drink again, you know. But that's that saltiness is what is the most interesting thing coming out of the MGP, especially like and it can't be the wheat that's doing that, right?

SPEAKER_07 17:38

No, I mean like what's doing that? So here's what I'm trying to figure out the winery that bottles this for them. So that this beverage company doesn't it, they don't touch anything but the final product. So they have a winery bottle it or nothing, the winery bottles it for them. So does the winery also age it there? Because the winery doesn't even list this as a product that they do or touch or anything on their website, nothing. On the back of the bottle, it's it is the smallest of print, and like to the point where like you really have to look at it to be like, what is that saying on there?

SPEAKER_04 18:10

Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's fairly prevalent that it's there, but yeah, it is. I mean, the the print is very fine and kind of and it's on like that aged kind of parchment type of colored paper. So yeah, like it is there, it's not like hidden by any means, but it's harder, a little bit harder to read for sure.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

They did a good job making that look like a bottle you just pulled out from like in between the drywall and the studs, yeah, from like the 1919. Yeah, like that's what it looks like prohibition. It looks like an old pre pre-ho prohibition bottle.

SPEAKER_07 18:39

I don't think this is an American bottle. And here's what I mean by that. Uh, the only place I can find in America that sells it is Total Wine, which Total Wine is just is that where you bought it? No, this is at Tipsi's.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Okay, so it's but Tipsi inherited it.

SPEAKER_07 18:52

He doesn't he inherited this bottle, it was in the back somewhere.

SPEAKER_05 18:56

So he didn't it wasn't like a skew that he had.

SPEAKER_07 18:58

Okay, oh wow, right yeah, that's interesting. So he inherited this when he bought the store, it was the only bottle there. Well, that's totally total wine sells it for about 52 bucks. Outside of Total Wine, I can't find it anywhere else. If you even if you go on to Copper Mountain, their their beverage company, when you try to find where to buy it, it takes you to the New Zealand page. So when was this bottle? They're still producing it, like this is still a thing. But so this but this bottle's older. Yes, so this one's older. So this one probably would have been uh let's see, tipsy so tipsy bought the bot of the store in 2020, 2019, maybe? So this would have been probably if it's the only bottle in from that store. This probably could have been from 20, I'd say probably about 2010.

SPEAKER_05 19:49

So okay, that's what I'm saying. It's been sitting in glass for a minute.

SPEAKER_07 19:51

Yeah, it's been sitting in there for a hot minute.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Do you try some water in it? I did. I put some water. I was just telling Bob this. I said, try to try to put some water in it and see how much it very it drastically changed the taste profile.

SPEAKER_05 20:01

You think better or worse or different uh different?

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Definitely there's more there now. Like you can get a lot more of the flavor out of it now. Um, I don't there's not nearly as much burn. I think it amplifies that middle part of the palate, but it also amplifies that saltiness like you see, like you thought it would. I familiar with that little bitterness. So it's like I that's not something I would be drawn to, but it definitely does change it. Yeah, and I in a way I think is beneficial to if you like the flavor, add some water and it's going to amplify the flavor versus the the proofy burn kind of that Kentucky hug, if you will, or Indiana.

SPEAKER_07 20:40

Indiana sweater. Embrace.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Okay, the yeah, the Indiana embrace. Yeah, yeah. So would you say, you know, if you're adding water, just go ahead and drink it on the rocks instead of uh with a cube instead of uh I mean, cooling it may be different too, like because you know, just adding a little bit of water is gonna make it is gonna kind of calm that proof down a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

I think it changes, changes. Well, I think for me, I don't like ice in a whiskey, uh which is funny because I used to that. That was the only way I drank it for the longest time. And now I'm just like it's neat or nothing kind of thing for me. I'm with you on that.

SPEAKER_05 21:11

If you're to add a drop or two of water, that's one thing. But changing the whole temperature does change drastically, changes the chemical molecules. Yeah, I just feel like it mutes everything.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

I don't know if it, I don't know if it goes that far, but for me, it definitely mutes the flavor. Whereas water, I think it can, if something feels like it's overpowered by the proof, you can kind of add some water and that will kind of bring a little more of the flavor out. Really, the only time I would use I I use, you know, if you're gonna use a cube for me is in a cocktail. Like that's not to be a whiskey purist.

SPEAKER_05 21:42

Because some people order water and whiskey. Yeah, or with it. Yeah. The the best way that I've ever introduced water into whiskey for myself personally is what I do is I take my glass and I rinse it out and dump it, and then I put whiskey in it, and that's it. And usually what you have is Or two or three drops that kind of remain. And that for me is like usually the best. I know like a big thing in cocktails is they'll add like a little bit of saline, a couple drops of saline mixture. Saline, yeah, I don't know. I've heard saline gives you the sh the makes you poop.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Well, how much saline are you drinking?

SPEAKER_04 22:14

Yeah, I'm not trying to drink straight salt water. Yeah, that's gonna make you poop. But that's essentially saline, salt and water.

SPEAKER_05 22:20

Well, if you if you but if you like saline and bourbon and you have eight or nine bourbons, you might be on the toilet. Well, we're talking about like maybe two drops. Yeah, yeah, like two drops out of an eyedropper.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Hey, look, it's it's on general principle. Tends to have a lot of impact on the flavor, but I have not quite delved, kind of jumped down that road because I just like the I like the taste of my whiskey.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

Like I don't even like it when it's cold. I just don't.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan. Yeah, I don't like it cold at all. I like it cold, but it bruises the spirit. Certainly. I will chill an old-fashioned, I will freezer like freezer door and old fashioned are different. Cocktails are different, yeah. And then pour that over like a single cube, but even then, I almost always will like I'll I'll chill the old-fashioned, make the whole liquid cold, and then pour it straight into a glass.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Well, look, and it's almost always higher-proof. If I want a cocktail, you know what I reach for? A tiki drink. Right in house. I like no, I like tea. I like tiki drinks, dude. Oh, yeah. Like if I want a cocktail, I'm gonna go, I'm not even gonna go bourbon. Like, it's gonna be some sort of rum-based tiki drink where I'm gonna be like three of these and I'm on the floor, you know. Those things are way more powerful than like and they taste.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

I'm lazy, so you want to make those if I'm at a bar or out like I'm on vacation, sure. Why not?

SPEAKER_07 23:30

If it's a hot summer day, I don't want a cold beer or a cold cocktail or ice in my whiskey. I want like chilled whiskey. Like I want it so it's it's cold, but not like put the bottle on ice kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

I think chilled whiskey is gross.

SPEAKER_07 23:43

It ch it it does change. I feel like it's a mental thing, but it does change it entirely.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

I think it mutes the flavors for me. I think it's I don't drink a lot of whiskey when it's hot. Now I will drink whiskey in the evening. Like if we're on vacation and it's like 100 degrees in Florida. I'm not doing a lot of whiskey drinking during the day. I'm drinking tequila.

SPEAKER_05 24:03

Did you ever have grandparents that would drink hot coffee when it was like 92 degrees? Mine too, mine too. And honestly, I'm fine with doing it too. I do it my coffee is strictly hot coffee. Like I don't I don't like it coffee. I don't care if it's 105 degrees. If I want coffee, I want hot coffee.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Yeah, I judge people that drink iced coffee. I'm so sorry. Yeah, but I I I just I'm a hot coffee guy, yeah. Coffee should be black. Yes. Uh I do have some with me.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

So there we go.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

But uh yeah, I mean, like when I'm on vacation or something, I'm like it's like hot in the summertime and we're in the sun, I'm not drinking whiskey most often. I'm I'm gonna be drinking like tequila or vodka, mostly tequila, probably. But then in the evening when it starts to cool off a little bit, it's a little more moderate, or I'm sitting in the AC and I'm ready to kind of wind down, I'm definitely gonna reach for whiskey.

SPEAKER_07 24:49

What's so interesting is so Mary and I are going to Florida in June, and we're gonna be sitting on the beach. And I already know last time we went to Florida with Chris and Laura, we bought those flas caps. Yeah, and it had good work, good use out of this, and it holds so in inside it holds six ounces. I don't know what happened to my and then the rest can be water and ice. Best way to sit on the beach and drink because you can hydrate and drink the liquor at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

So you just drink. I thought I thought the flas cap you like pushed it and it released it into your drink.

SPEAKER_07 25:18

So they have that, but then the one we had, you push it and it goes straight from reservoir to mouth. Yep, it holds a six-ounce flask inside of it. That's the one we had. Push in decide do I want liquor or do I want to find it?

SPEAKER_05 25:31

You can decide whether, and if you kind of half pull it, then you can get both.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

Yes. See, now if I was to do something like that, I would probably make it like a pre-made cocktail for it.

SPEAKER_05 25:39

I will say that. I don't know if I would want my very quickly. We went from from doing the flask cap to just ice in like three quarters tequila and like a you know, a reservoir of extra stuff. A quarter of like like ranch water, and that was it.

SPEAKER_07 25:54

Yes, yeah. So we we I definitely experienced a good time during this, but I that's like it. That's my way of thermoses. There's big, yeah. But that's my ever since then, that's my go-to for beaches. That's my go-to for boating. Like, I want something chill. But even if I'm looking for whiskey, it's something like even if I change it with the temperature, it's still gonna be okay. But it's not like a it, it's not it's this. It's it's kind of this dock whiskey I'm gonna throw on there. Like, temperature may change it, but I don't know that I'm gonna be that upset. Like, do you really care? Yeah, I'm not gonna throw like an old.

SPEAKER_05 26:38

It definitely does affect like the whole sensory you taste experience, everything. Whether you actually have salt in your mouth or not, it tastes salt. Everything tastes salty down there when you're on the yeah, so this might be a good beach. Yeah, it would be a good thing for that. Salt water taffy is actually a good thing down there too. If you've ever actually eaten that on the beach, it's actually pretty delicious.

SPEAKER_07 26:57

I tend to dunk mine in the yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

I just take I just gargle, I gargle the ocean water and then I eat the salt water chicken.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

It's the way to go.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

Yeah, you guys like candy corn jobs?

SPEAKER_04 27:06

I just butt chug the candy corn, dude. You're you're a monster. Candy corn is end-to-end. I love candy for serial.

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Dude, I love candy. Do you like candy corn, Bob? Good. I'm glad I'm a big candy corn guy. Do you have ever had candy corn and peanuts? No, it tastes like a payday bar. It's amazing. That's not amazing. Handful of peanuts, handful of candy corn, eat them, and you're gonna be like, oh, this is freaking good. So, Nick, do you also like candle wax?

SPEAKER_07 27:31

Or I don't like candy.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

So I'm not a usually eat your candles instead of burning them. I mean I chewed.

SPEAKER_07 27:36

I'll be honest, about the only time growing up that we had candy corn was around Thanksgiving. And it was only because we did those like turkeys. Turkey. Yeah, that's the only reason why we had it.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

And like candy corn is for art projects.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

It really is. And you can get them with the white tips or the brown tips. And then I used sometimes I would eat like just the different like layers, and then sometimes you eat the whole thing. You know what I mean? What are you getting that's the brown tip?

SPEAKER_07 28:00

Chocolate.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Yeah, it's got a little chocolate to it. Yeah, yeah, it's like a chocolate base. I've only seen the white.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Sometimes they have green on the pumpkin ones, but I don't like the pumpkin ones as much as I want the tri-layer candy corn. Yeah, my mom candy corn. Dude, I love candy corn.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Actually, I want to eat that right now. We just give her such a hard time about it. And my daughter, my daughter loves saltwater taffy. Like we go to we go to Florida, dude. That's her like her one thing. She's like, I don't care what else we do. Saltwater taffy. I want to go to that store that I went to last year. Oh, watermelon. And I want a big old bag of saltwater taffy. She'll eat the whole bag while we're there. Like a three-pound bag before we do vacation. Yeah, we'll find saltwater taffy wrappers everywhere within the condo.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

Like I used to have a ton down here, but I eat them all. I'm gonna go on vacation. I get a bunch. You should bring those back from Florida since we're not we're not going this year. You get it, give me a big bag.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Have you guys ever been drinking your bourbon? And you're like, I wonder what my bourbon's gonna taste like if I eat something like a saltwater taffy or something.

SPEAKER_07 29:00

And it probably has.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Okay, because I do that. I'll eat candy and then take a sip of bourbon afterwards just to see if it's what it's like.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

Yeah, yeah. Uh you know, I don't think we've done that with other things, but I don't think we've ever really talked a whole lot other than like the Prince Dinner pairing and stuff. We haven't really talked a whole lot about like what it looks like to like what would it be like to eat this with this and drink.

SPEAKER_07 29:20

So what's fascinating to me? That's a different concept. Yeah, I like that. You and Steve are totally against having a glass of whiskey at like a restaurant with your food.

SPEAKER_05 29:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 29:31

It it takes away from I I am all for having glasses of whiskey with my food.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

I mean, because I'm a pure thing, except for Prince.

SPEAKER_07 29:39

Here's the thing if I if I'm going out to eat, I don't really care about the food. I'm going normally for the bar. I'm going for whatever the the co they have like in bottles that maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 29:49

Well, that's your problem right there. Me and Steve are eaters.

SPEAKER_07 29:52

So is Mary. Mary goes for she goes for the food.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

I'm after the food, I'm not after the whiskey.

SPEAKER_07 29:56

I'll eat and eat and eat.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

I just don't know if you're not going to be able to have a good cocktail. I'm gonna try. I might try a cocktail with dinner, or like that's usually what I'll order it right away. I'll drink it before dinner and I'll have water with them. But yeah, I agree. I can't, I'm not gonna drink whiskey with dinner.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

Nobody's gonna drink a 99% of the time. Like Prince is just an old rip tin while they're eating food. Like you know what I mean? Like, or let's take a break. I mean, I've done it, we've done it, I've done it. We finished a bottle one time, but I will take a break from what I'm eating and swallow, and then I'll take a sip and enjoy that and then swallow, and then I'll take I'm not gonna do both in conjunction. But Prince does kind of pair in a way that you want to do in conjunction, but not everywhere you can, and I and I can't always do that myself with food. I mean, hell, I like White Castle, but I'm not gonna eat that and drink goods.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

You're not gonna drink Pappy with White Castle, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 30:47

I might. Uh maybe. Here's the thing Prince of the opportunity. Prince and I were talking the other day. I don't know of any other establishment, restaurant, bar, whatever it is, that does what Prince does.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Like a pairing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:01

They do it with wine, but they don't do it with wine. They do it with whiskey because there's there's almost this mentality of like, oh, I can't tarnish my food or my whiskey with the other thing.

SPEAKER_05 31:09

Well, here's the other thing, and we've talked about this, but I don't know if we've ever said it like people can hear us. But he also does it with the appetizer and the dessert.

SPEAKER_07 31:17

Yes, he does it for the three-course meal.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Which is we don't listen, we don't want to give him too big of a like. We don't we don't want to lose Prince. So we have to keep we gotta rein it in a little bit. We need to rein it in a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 31:28

We can't have anyone else.

SPEAKER_05 31:30

I try not to make too big of a deal out of it, but uh, it is quite uh uh he's like a magician, like there's quite a thing going on. Like you shall not pass, or you shall drink and eat at the same time. Oh I've told you.

SPEAKER_07 31:44

I'm not a I don't I love salads, but I won't buy a salad at a restaurant. His salad?

SPEAKER_05 31:49

You would spend good money for his last time I said your salads make me want to eat salad. Yes, yeah, like I don't eat salad, like 30 36 years, almost 37 years. I don't like salad, so like he makes me want to eat salad.

SPEAKER_07 32:02

So, Bob, you weren't the last dinner that we had for the founders. It was almost as like Italian antipasta salad, but had cucumbers involved with it. And this it was it reminded me of Bob's salad, Chris, but like with more veggies.

SPEAKER_04 32:18

I remember I remember telling him I feel like I remember say asking the group, like, do you guys feel like this would have been just as good or better without like bacon, which is asinine, right? I like that is an absurd. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I got down, like I'm eating through it. I'm like, man, this is so good. And I got to the bacon, and like, oh, that kind of dude anything. I feel like that kind of took away from my experience. Like, like, but that seems ridiculous.

SPEAKER_07 32:39

Anything's better with bacon. And Mary's words were I didn't like the salad. I was like, what didn't you like about the salad?

SPEAKER_04 32:45

I think I think death would even be better with bacon. Like, yeah, but I honestly that last salad we made, I think it would have been just as good, if not better, without the bacon. Yeah, but because it was so damn good. Like nothing is better, nothing's better without bacon, but that was so good, maybe. I I think it might have been, yeah. I really because I feel like the bacon, like, I was like, oh, I just take I taste bacon now, but like I want to go back to what I just what what the first four bites were before I got down to the bacon kind of thing.

SPEAKER_07 33:09

I kind of get like a a uh a best of both worlds being in both clubs because we were talking prince here, okay? The second chapter had a bottle that I've had in it. Oh, you guys have probably tried old Forster store pick from Tipsy. That's the bottle that they had for the Prince turn. Prince rolled out this appetizer that was this pizza, but instead of traditional like marinara sauce, it was a caramelized onion and blackberry jam sauce.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Damn, Prince, if you're listening, I don't appreciate the salads as much. That sounds good. It was amazing. I'm just saying, the founders club gets salads, you guys get caramelized whatever this is.

SPEAKER_07 33:50

It had like bacon onion appetizer, just on top.

SPEAKER_05 33:54

Yeah, I should I should tell him like I can just eat gluten.

SPEAKER_07 33:57

Yeah, but then it had like fresh like blackberries sitting on top of all this, and it was like, what the heck? Like, it was amazing. What is going on? And then he made this like hot honey chicken that he did, fried hot honey chicken on white cheddar mac and chicken.

SPEAKER_05 34:12

Just gonna sacrifice for the club. I'm just gonna tell him that gluten it up, dude. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

Just take the next day off work so you can be on the toilet.

SPEAKER_07 34:18

Oh, three days.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

It's usually about three days, and I'm good.

SPEAKER_07 34:21

Here's the fun for me. He did this based off of the bottle they had. So white cheddar mac and cheese. Wait, what bottle was this around?

SPEAKER_05 34:28

Wait, he did collard greens?

SPEAKER_07 34:30

Collard greens. He never made me no collared greens. I know, but this is the old those things. This is the old Forester tipsy pick. Yes. Yes. And the dessert, here's what I love. I could have been there. I could have done that. The dessert was a loser, dude. Dessert was a non-gluten-free sweet potato pie like we had, but it had old Forester some of this whiskey in the whipped cream, and then had a blackberry on top of it. I'm gonna have to do that. So he looked at that and he's like doing these dinners. He literally was like, okay, so this the sweet potato pie goes well with both bottles that we're having for founders and the the second chapter. But everything else, I'm gonna change out. Who thinks that? Like who looks at that and is like, oh, we're gonna change this, but everything else, the kind of the base is there, but we're gonna mix it up.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

He does love making stuff with the whiskey that we give him. Oh, yeah. Especially like whipped cream or like pudding or and it's like oh, you put this this whiskey in this dessert and it tastes amazing, and it and it's like it amplifies your whiskey. It's not the obviously not the same flavors, but you get a lot of those non-alcohol flavors that get pulled through the food, and then you have the alcohol with it, and it's like man, this is incredible. My favorite meal by far that he has made has been the American light whiskey. Oh yeah. I mean, it just so if you asked me, like, oh, would you this would be the dessert you would like? I would say no. I would say that doesn't sound like a dessert, it's cornbread and like some fruit on top. But like the way everything paired with the bottle was so and like the whiskey changed with the food. It wasn't the other way around, it wasn't like the food amplified or the food kind of pulled differently, like it was like the the food changed the whiskey almost.

SPEAKER_07 36:18

It was very unique. And the dessert, I told him like that was like the the flavor change that happened within the dessert was mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

And he was like, Oh, you really pull forward a lot of the fruit flavors and the in the appetizer because he had like the the peach, like the charred peach, yeah, or whatever it was in the in the uh in the salad. And then by the end, it's like cornbread, and you're like, this tastes like dusty corn. Yeah, I don't know how that happened, but all of a sudden now I'm all I get is the corn, like a it's like a sweet mellow corn kind of flavor on this whiskey.

SPEAKER_07 36:45

So what's funny was that was supposed to be a cobbler. Okay, and he screwed up on the cobbler, and so he had to figure something out. Yeah, he had to improvise. So the the corn, the cakes are on top. The cakes on top was actually supposed to be the cobbler, and so he was like, I he beats himself over, and he's like, Oh, it's the worst thing I wanted this. I was like, it was amazing, like it was still wonderful because it I think it got the idea across.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

I think it was Blake that talked about talks about that dessert too. I think there was there's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

I feel like he beats himself up over the the ones that we like the most, which is so funny because like it's like the things he messes up and it's like on a whim he tries to figure it out, or it's like Bob Roll didn't go happy little mistakes, yeah. Happy little mistake, and then we're all like, We love this, and he's like, Well, it's not right, it wasn't this, it was supposed to be that, and you're like, dude, I don't we don't know the difference, obviously.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

It's because he really had to be creative. He really had to be an artist in that moment, and then we get there, we shows through, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

All I know is I'm jealous, and it sounded you had me at cornbread, so yeah, it was so good. Who doesn't like cornbread?

SPEAKER_05 37:47

Oh, I'm like, you think about cornbread as a dessert like that? Cornbread is good on everything.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

It's got some bourbon butter with the bigger.

SPEAKER_05 37:55

We used to take leftover cornbread in the morning. So after like eating it, because we ate a lot of cornbread growing up. We take the leftover, we'd warm it up, and then you put a little milk and sugar in there. Have you ever done that? No, it's great, it's like a cereal, yeah. Oh, yeah, it was delicious, just like uh rice milk and sugar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's delicious, yeah. I like this bottle. The more I drink it, yeah, the more I like it. Uh I I really like it.

SPEAKER_07 38:19

So again, I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to and I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

I would never say it's a weeded.

SPEAKER_07 38:25

We've talked about bottles from Scotland not being a Scottish bottle. It's not made for them, it's made for America. Everything I found on this bottle does not seem to be American. They boast being Indiana, they boast all about it's Indiana Burman, Indiana whiskey, but it's most popular in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_05 38:44

We gotta think if you're in New Zealand, something from Indiana, America probably sounds pretty cool.

SPEAKER_07 38:50

But also it doesn't sound cool to us, but to them it probably sounds cool, right? But if we're talking New Zealand, okay, it's probably it's gonna sound like a cool place.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

We love America, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 39:00

We think New Zealand, so okay, it's similar to maybe Australia, but you also think so. Like Lord of the Rings was filmed in New Zealand. So you think about that like environment.

SPEAKER_05 39:10

I feel like it's like the best place to visit as a tourist. So why this bottle? Because it's good. I I think it's got it's got non-American flavors going on. Maybe to them it's more American than maybe I'm getting it.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Maybe they have a limited supply of American stuff, and it's this is so unique, it's like a Heineken.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

Yeah, like a Heineken. Heineken is a good app description because Heineken's a different tasting beer. It's a kind of grass. It's kind of like people call it skunky, but it's different. I I when I could drink beer, I used to drink a lot of Heineken. I liked it because it was unique, it was different. There's no other beer like Heineken. There might be some kind of like it, but it was very distinct and different. That's how this bourbon is. Yeah, it's very distinct and different.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

I would say it's kind of like um, and go and going back to why they like something from Indiana. It's like the uh Germany. When I went to Germany, they jack everything. Oh, yeah, Jack Daniels. Huge into Jack Daniels. And I'm sitting there going, Because it's American. And I mean, I'm there and I'm just like, What why'd you pick Jack? Yeah, I mean, Jack, okay, Jack and Coke. I like Jack and Coke, but why?

SPEAKER_05 40:14

Oh, I have a lot of friends that in Germany, but they they appreciate, like you said, like American shows and movies, and but the way that we would appreciate German stuff or you know, stuff from other countries, like we think, oh, France, France is amazing. Nobody in France is like, we're amazing, you know what I mean? Like, they're probably just like we're whatever. American, they're that that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

I definitely feel like the French are definitely like we are the best.

SPEAKER_05 40:36

Yeah, they they might be like, We we we, we we we are the best, we we are the best, baguette and wine, yeah. We got the baguette and the wine and the promiscuity, cognac, cognac, and the negative. The language is superior, yes, yeah. Art is superior, yeah. Food, we do we know no violence, but anyway. Uh back to what we're drinking and smoke, smoking. Let's talk about that. I was gonna say, does this work? It's super dry, but it's smoking well. Yeah, doesn't have as it's not as full flavored as I remember it being. I think this is one of those tobaccos you kind of have to get fresh.

SPEAKER_07 41:11

So are there tobaccos that you should age and sell her? Others you shouldn't?

SPEAKER_05 41:15

Mo, I mean, most tobaccos will a will be better with age. Aromatics, not so much. Some Englishes have a peak point, usually nine years. Virginia's is about the peak point. Virginia's or the Virginia's or Virginia pre, or anything anything that's like non-aromatic or non-English, the longer, the better. Okay, like because the flavors meld so much better. I mean, it should be an oxidization. We talked about this a little bit, oxidization. When it gets past like nine or ten years, like every year is like massive difference, massive difference, right? Uh really like really like good Englishes will do the same thing at some point. Some point there's a cutoff. I think it's probably before what you get with like a Virginia blends.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

And I think I think it's the oils with with or with uh the English blends, it's gotta stay hydrated.

SPEAKER_05 42:04

Yeah, I feel like once the oils start to kind of dissipate, that's where you start to lose. I don't think that this one. I think if I if I had taken this out of the tin and jarred it, it would have been okay. But for some reason, for some reason it dried out in the tin. Maybe it came too dry. I don't know. But if there's no moisture, it's not gonna mature. And this one didn't mature, it's not as matured as it should be.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

Yeah, I I mean I definitely get some of like the incense off of it, like that type of flavor. But yeah, I don't I wouldn't say it's a full flavor. It shouldn't be it's for the amount of time smoking this and like you smell like a Boswell's Northwoods, it's just like Yeah, these aren't the same.

SPEAKER_05 42:41

Yeah, if you were to try this against Penzance, which is what this is supposed to be, you'd be penzants would smoke it. The thing is, Penzance in 20, you know, 10, 20 years, you pull that out, it is like freaking oily. Oily, but almost like crystallizes a little bit. They put they they pack it with a lot of liquid, like so. A lot of people will gripe because if you open up a fresh tin of esoterica, it's wet. But they do that because they want it to age, they want you to age. Yeah, and if you if you wait 10, 12, 15 years and open up a tin of esoterica, it's the perfect drying, like perfect moisture content to smoke, and it is aged, it's matured. It is like it's kind of the same with like uh Samuel Gay with a same or yeah, or a Hogarth and yeah, yeah, gay with and hogarth. Yeah, they want a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

They tend to be a lot more moist, and they're it's and it's like, oh, everyone's like, oh yeah, age those. Like those are the ones you want to age. You put it if something's a little bit drier naturally, like kind of off the rip, it's not gonna age very well. Because that moisture just kind of it just kind of pulls all those flavors and kind of blends them and melds them really well. Yeah, whereas if you don't have it, it doesn't do as much.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Right. I don't yeah, I don't think this one benefited from the I think the first one definitely did.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

I don't I don't think this one did as much.

SPEAKER_07 43:54

But this is supposed to be. It's still good, still good. Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

It's supposed to it, it was his it was Russ's version of a match. It's not anywhere close. Here's the thing when people talk about penzance, like anybody in the pipe tobacco smoking community is gonna be like, Oh, penzance, I've heard of it. It's amazing, it's legendary, it's whatever, you know. People are like, Is it really worth it? And I'm always like, it really is.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Like, there's no like that was my first question for you when you when you say I was like, Is it really worth it? Is it really that good? And you're like, I'm like, what's so special? I remember asking you, like, what's so special about penzance? Like, everyone talks about penzance like it's like the holy grail. And you're like, it's just that good. It's just that that's literally exactly what your comment, like your statement was like, it's just that good. And then once you've smoked it, and if you like in English, it's like, yep, that's the that makes sense. That's the gold standard, you know, like that's it.

SPEAKER_05 44:45

It's like if you ever had those experiences where you're like, I hope this lives up to my expectations, and then that thing exceeds your expectations. That's Penzance. That's how good it is. Like, I like you're not gonna try as a pipe smoker, you're not gonna try it and be like, it was what I thought it was gonna be, or it was less than what I thought it was. It's it's always like this was better than I imagined it would be. And that's really kind of a awesome experience, you know. Like, that's really something probably qualify this closer to like a like I could see it being more of like a Margate. Yeah, I I think Margate's better than this for sure. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but I feel like flavor-wise, flavor-wise, and like what's there.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

I feel like it's a little closer to it. It comes close to Margate, yeah. Or even like, and really, I mean, honestly, it's really close to Mississippi River.

SPEAKER_05 45:29

You know, I was gonna say, I'm glad you said it because it's very similar in the way it not the presentation, but the way it smokes, it's the flavor is very close to Mississippi River. Very close.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

I feel like uh that's what it reminds me of the most is that Mississippi River.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

Yeah, and it's even cut the same kind of way. Yep, I would agree.

SPEAKER_07 45:47

So, okay, so speaking of uh the idea of trying something and going, This is not what I expected, it might be something better or just not what I expected. This bottle. Before you sipped it, before we really got into it, your response to me and talking about it was so why the heck are we having this on the the podcast?

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Because it's a white label, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:05

Okay, so you knowing that and having it, does that change things for you?

SPEAKER_05 46:09

I hate that it's a white label because this is really good, like it's not um look. We we've sm we've drank a lot of MGP, right? You like almost every like I want to say nine out of ten times we can say that's MGP. Would you say that?

SPEAKER_07 46:27

Based off of flavor, no.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

Based on the taste. No, the no, sure, but not on the taste, right? So that right there is kind of like what? Yeah. Also, like I have not seen much stuff come out of MGP with that high of a of a weeded no component.

SPEAKER_07 46:41

I don't I can't really think of anything that comes out of that high. That's why it's a weird MGP is not weeded, they don't do weeders. They don't.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Also, if if I were to read you the specs before you drink it, which we normally do, right? This would throw you for a loop. Right? So all these things together, it's kind of like what the hell is this?

SPEAKER_07 47:00

Right.

SPEAKER_05 47:01

And then you have like three different companies that are technically like I don't know what's going on. Like there's a middleman, maybe, or it's like no one wants to claim it.

SPEAKER_07 47:10

Like what is happening?

SPEAKER_05 47:12

Yeah, it's I I will say there's intrigue, there's flavor. Whether you like it or not, there's flavor. You can't deny it. It's different. Um, and it's uh at a good price point, right?

SPEAKER_07 47:22

About 52 bucks is normal.

SPEAKER_05 47:24

Yeah, that's great. Uh it is an interesting bottle. You should try. Like, and that's one of those things that, like, if I were to say, I've got a very interesting bottle you should try, you'd be like, Yes, it's from MGP. You'd be like, uh, that's weird, right? But it's me saying that it's an interesting bottle you should try and it's from MGP should make you go, What is I gotta try it? I've gotta try it, right? That should make you want to try it. Like, it's an MGP bottle that I'm saying you should try. Not many out there that are like that. Yeah, that's my thing. What do you guys think?

SPEAKER_03 47:52

I mean, for me, it caught me off guard.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

Why?

SPEAKER_03 47:56

When I looked at the bottle and then I heard some of the things you guys said, I thought it was gonna be cheap tasting, honestly. I took the first drink and it took me back a little bit. Again, a taste that I didn't recognize. Yeah, I I honestly like it. I mean, I I would probably pick me up another one.

SPEAKER_07 48:15

Would you would you look for it after having this? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

And I probably would have rated it between 40 to 60 bucks, to be honest. Yeah. And I'm also one of those guys that I know you're gonna look down on me on this one, but I I look at the labels and I look at the bottle and I'm kind of like, oh, that looks like it'd be cool. I'm gonna buy that because it, but it looks it to me when I look at it, it looks like uh something my grandpa would have on his shelf and I would have bought it for that reason. Yeah, but no, I I I like the taste, uh, so I probably would have bought it again. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

I think for I mean for me, contrary to what you would think, is I I I'm a I'm a sucker for some marketing. If you have some really good marketing, I might just buy your bottle, even if it sucks. Like, I'm not a huge Blantons fan. It's a little expensive for what it is. I'm not um is it bad? No, absolutely not. It's it's good bourbon. Is it worth the price that we pay for in Ohio? No. But am I always gonna have a bottle on my shelf? Absolutely. I'm always gonna have that bottle because the bottle is it's just iconic. You know, the the caribou crossing, like not a fan at all. Bottle is beautiful. Would I buy it again? Nope. Do I have a bottle on my shelf? Yep. You know, I would have guessed it.

SPEAKER_05 49:26

You were a marketing guy.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

So yeah, I mean, I I have a little bit of background in with some marketing. So it for me, I think there's something to it. Like, you know, the Doc Holiday bottles, it's like those are those are cool. But also in the back of my head, I automatically assume the more marketing you have, the more special your bottle and your label looks, the less value I place on your whiskey. So I think for you know, if you got a decent whiskey and it's in a really cool bottle and it's at a good price, yeah, sign me up. I'll buy a bottle of it. Will I be a repeat consumer? Probably not.

SPEAKER_05 49:59

Or a champion of the bottle.

SPEAKER_04 50:01

Yeah, yeah. Am I gonna go out and tell everyone I love this bottle and it's the best bottle ever because it looks cool? No, I think it looks cool on my shelf, absolutely. You know, like will it pot still? Do I do I like Willet? No. Did I like pot still? Absolutely not. Is the bottle awesome? Yes. Do I have that bottle on my shelf as a decanter? Yes. Clearly, I emptied it, but you know, so there is something to it, you know. And and I pick on Willet, and I don't, I'm like I said, we you know, I I love Willet. It was that was just kind of listening.

SPEAKER_05 50:32

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

That was my first introduction to Rye, so I always kind of pick on Willet a little bit. I love what they do, and I and it's kind of a love-hate. I feel like you either love it or you hate it.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

They're a bit of an underdog, yeah, yeah, and very polarizing.

SPEAKER_04 50:44

They're polarizing for sure. But for this, this but for me, this bottle doesn't do much for me. I I'm not saying it's a bad bottle. For me, I try to think of a bottle as a like you have to go out and buy this, or it's a buy at this price, or it's a try before you buy. And for me, this is a try before you buy. I'm curious. You I saw you add some water. What did you think after adding some water? Did it change?

SPEAKER_07 51:06

Drastically changed it for good or for worse, for different. Yeah, not for good or for bad, but it it was like it is like I'm sipping on a completely different whiskey now, completely different bottle. Yeah, yeah. There's like some similarities of like, okay, I got this, I got that, but it like it it oddly enough, like you said, proofed it down enough to where like you talk about that bite that like you can feel it in the back. Nothing, it's not there, it's gone.

SPEAKER_05 51:36

I don't know if I'd like it without that. I don't think I'd like it without it's it's like term. Do you think that it's a challenge, it's it's a challenging bottle, like it or it's an experience. Do you think that this was an trying this was this an experience for you?

SPEAKER_04 51:52

Yeah, I mean, I I definitely think it's a bottle that I would try, or if you had a bottle, or somebody had a bottle and they're like, Hey, you should try this. I would try it. And you and you'd go, wow.

SPEAKER_05 52:01

Or yeah, you it wouldn't be it wouldn't be like I feel like it's polarizing. I feel like this is not a ho hum for me.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

You I mean, hearing you guys talk about it, and it's like, man, I'm like, I don't get in any of that, like like really like that that that love for it.

SPEAKER_05 52:15

Yeah, well, I think there's times that me and Nick love something. That's where I'm getting at. It's because it's a change, because it's a challenge, because it's polarizing, because it's a it's different.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

You know, I like an MGP rye. When you guys talk about MGP, it's like you see a bottle and it's almost like you can tell it's MGP. You don't even have to taste it or smell it. You just kind of like for you guys, and for me, I can't do that. Uh, probably for the same for you, it in terms of like we we I may like it or may not not like MGP, but I can't like that's MGP. I already know. I don't it's a blind, and I'm like that. You know, I'm sure like there's a if you guys if I blinded some whiskey, like MGP, you guys would be like, MGP, I like it so much.

SPEAKER_05 53:01

This is MGP and it's different. Yeah, right. That's why I like I like that it's I got to try something new, I got to have a new experience. That's why I appreciate it. I get to have a new experience. And I approach it more of as like a just this is just as whiskey. This is just like do I want the as a whiskey? Is it good or not good? Maybe for me and not so much. Yeah, it's okay. I get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. I get what you're doing. Should I pay more than 40 bucks for it? Absolutely not. And what's so it's funny? And that's a fair assessment for for for that kind of uh viewpoint on it.

SPEAKER_07 53:29

Yeah, I think what's fun for me is the fact that these two bottles we've never had, never seen, maybe we'll never see or have again. The next two we're gonna have later on are ones that we've either seen, tried, or whatever. Someone's talked about. Chris talks about the experience. I think for me and Chris, when we first started in whiskey, do you remember this? We literally would go to a liquor store. I'd come visit him, we'd go to the liquor store and spend hours just staring at bottles. Our hours. And we would buy a few or a few bottles. We probably had guys like the the store, like uh, probably two guys from the store come up, like, hey, do you need help? And it was they changed shit.

SPEAKER_05 54:07

There was no reason, there was no resources online, so we had to kind of figure this stuff out between like what we could Google a little bit, what we could read, and then what the person would know or not know.

SPEAKER_07 54:18

And granted, I feel like back then, correct me if I'm wrong, Chris. Back then in Ohio, we actually had, I feel like, more of a selection.

SPEAKER_05 54:25

There was more of a selection, but it was more of a selection less regulated than it is now in Ohio.

SPEAKER_07 54:29

So now to find these bottles and go, I've never seen these bottles. I've never tried these bottles, I don't know what these are like. To me, that's worth every penny for the experience of like, let's see what this is gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

And we and we love to try new things, and it's it's always been about the experience.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

That's why we're part of the club. It's like a FOMO thing. Like, there's that fear of missing out. Like, I want to try everything, yeah, right. I may not like it, but I was still want to try. I want to have the experience. You tell me this whiskey is disgusting.

SPEAKER_05 54:56

I I I hate it. And I'm like, how bad is it? I hate riding roller coasters. I don't like it. I get enough excitement as it is, I don't need it. Okay. I've been I've been hundreds of feet above the ground and like you know, been all and almost fallen. Like, I don't need to actually simulate that, I don't need to do it, but I get the idea of experiencing that as an experience, like like wanting to have that as an experience and to save it in your memory. The up and down the road. I did that, I checked, you know, checked that thing off. I get it. So that for me is like what is what trying different bourbons. Well, you could be like, you're gonna hate this, you're gonna hate this so much for these reasons. And then I try and be like, I hate it, you know what I mean? For these reasons, but I'm glad I tried it because it's an experience I got to have. Yep, you get what I'm saying? So I might hate getting on roller coasters, but I'll do it because I've I've not been on this one.

SPEAKER_04 55:52

Yeah, we had a club, we had a club night, and you guys had it was a whiskey, and it was it had some uh some neutral grain spirits in it, and I remember and I remember seeing you guys drinking it, and I had to do something different in my hand, and everyone was kind of like, I was here passing this bottle around. And I'm like looking at it, I'm like, you guys all of a sudden you don't like it. I don't want to try it, and yet I still tried still trying to try it, you gotta have the experience. And I was like, Nope. Like one sip in, I was like, nope, not for me. I'm good, but I still wanted to try that for that experience. Yeah, and like for me, I'm scared of heights. Like, and then to go, like my brother and I went on a trip to Zion and I did Angel's Landing, which is absurd if you're scared of heights.

SPEAKER_05 56:32

Yeah, same, same thing I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

And it's just like, I'm like, I have to do it. He's like, I can't, I can't do it. He goes to the top and like you know you've done it to the like the point of like no return. He was like, I'm done. He's like, You're on your own from here. I'm like, I'm doing it. I don't I'm here, this is my one shot, I'm gonna do it. Terrified, and like now I have that like lasting memory. And he's like, maybe it's bad, maybe it's good. Yeah, it doesn't really matter like why it's it's just gonna be burned in there forever as like a core memory. So yeah, I think we as a group has have that FOMO. And for you guys, I think that's why that this bottle stands out more, is because you're like, Oh, this is MGP, this is what it should be. I think if you guys had not known this was MGP coming in, I don't think you would have the same opinion of this bottle as you do now. Whereas I think you're right, approach everything of like this is just whiskey, like, do I like it or do I not like it? I think I think we would know. Is it different enough that I really love it or whatever? And it does smell. I mean, it has that.

SPEAKER_05 57:26

I would have said it smells like MGP, but I don't think after we drank it, we would have said this is MGP.

SPEAKER_07 57:30

Yeah, if Steve didn't tell us right away, is we'd try and be like, in itself, is what's so amazing.

SPEAKER_05 57:34

Yeah, when's the last time we tried something from MGP that we weren't like it was white white labeled? Yeah, we we we always called it. I don't think I would have said that. Yeah, for it makes it a good experience, it makes it something different, yeah. A good experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:48

Yep, so I think it depends on your we're enjoying it because we're somebody who can really like familiar pick out MGP, not and you're like you're that kind of palette, or you're so familiar with MGP. I think it'll be interesting for you. It's like role-playing.

SPEAKER_07 58:02

Sure. I I think familiar. I view it as you guys trying tobacco from a company that you know this is their flavor, this is normal. You don't know what it is, you try it and you go, Wow, this is this is amazing, right? And and Chris is like, Oh, it's this. You're like, No, there's no way that it's that. Yeah, it's that. Like you you kind of have this idea of like based off of flavor and no idea, you try and you're like, Wow, I've never had this before, I've never experienced this stuff before.

SPEAKER_05 58:33

Well, and that's what we go with pipe tobacco, even more so. Like with pipe tobacco, it's very much like you're chasing new experiences. Because if you already like a certain blend, are you gonna have three or four of that same blend? You're not, you're gonna stick with that one blend, whoever does it the best, and you're gonna move on. Like, I can tell you, like, there's a few vapors I like, but there's but there's basically one or two that I'm like, this is it. Like, that's it. I can do that with a I can't do that with bourbon, I can do that with pipe tobacco. Like, there's a few vapors that I'm like, this is it, I could I could take it or leave the rest, you know what I mean? Same thing with English, English, uh, burlies, you know, whatever it is, but like it's a lot more limited, and I can't think of a lot of blends. Yeah, there's less choices, but I can't say from a quality space. But there's a lot, but there's a lot of vapors out there, and I can't think of like nine or ten that I'm like, these are all must-haves. There's a lot of good ones, but I can think of two or three that I'm like, this this is it, you know what I mean? But there's a lot of bourbons that I'm like, this one and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, this one. These are all must-haves, you know what I mean? That's different, that's interesting, you know.

SPEAKER_07 59:45

I've been trying to figure out since I poured water in this what this reminds you of. And I feel like Chris now has to do a drop of water.

SPEAKER_05 59:51

Okay, do me give me a drop. I I don't have water, I have LaCroix, I'm bougie because I can't.

SPEAKER_07 59:55

It reminds me. I can't put LaCroix in there. It reminds me of uh cognac. No, yeah, that white grape. Well, I have coffee, so I can't drop it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

Small drop, yeah. I guess, yeah. I mean, if you're talking about white grape and like that sourness to it, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:12

Like white cognac, like that white grape almost.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

I'm not as experienced with cognac, so I can't.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:16

It was Nick's water, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:18

It smells like semen.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:23

Just tell him like what I tell my son.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:25

Oh, it's an hermouth.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:27

He's like that's fresh out the. I always tell him, like, that's yep, like he'll fill up his water at bedtime, like, yep, that's fresh out the toilet after he takes a drink. He's like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

Wow, that wow, that really amplifies the salt.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:39

Yeah, but almost like a sour salt.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:41

You can't say that after what he said about where the water came from. Yeah, exactly. It's very salty. I have an aftertaste of salt. That's how salty it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:53

Yeah, it it it yeah, it ain't I feel like for me it it it changed it quite a bit, but it amplified that. The salt, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:00

Yeah, maybe that's what I get for cognac, is like a not in a bad way, but sour salt, like a white grape salt.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

Yeah, it's it's different. Yeah, that's a I mean that yeah, and that and that's what when you say, like, is this whiskey an experience? Yeah, it's an experience. Do you like it or do you not like it? Uh it's not for me. Do would I say hey? Do you appreciate it? That's the that's a different kind of that's a different question. Hey, don't don't buy that. That's a shit bottle. Like, it's gross, right? I wouldn't say that. Uh, I would maybe disclaimer it with like, hey, what is what is your profile? What do you like?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:33

We should we should ask that. We should ask, do you like it? And then do you appreciate it? Because there's some like I there might be some where you like and don't appreciate because it tastes like everything else I've had. Or but there might be some that you don't like, but you appreciate it for what it is. There's might be some that just suck.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

Yeah, I mean for me, that just the Sonoma blows this out of the water just from a pure flavor. There's so much going on, it's so unique and different. I love the Sonoma, yeah. I really enjoyed it. Like, that's a bottle I would look, I would, I would seek out to have on the shelf to be like, hey, one of those nights where you're just like, ah, what I don't want, I don't want I don't want to scotch. I don't want that. Like, what do I want? Like, I want a drink, but I don't want the everyday kind of thing, feel, or like even like just like that kind of more burb. I want to, where do I want to go? Like, uh, let me grab that. Um, and that's where I like that's kind of where that rye, a lot of rye is will kind of fulfill that. Like, yeah, but like for me, it's more of like the flavored stuff, or like not flavored, I guess. The finished, yeah. So like a whipsaw or the um the mezcal finish rye that we got from um uh wiggle, like those type of things. Like this, that's where that Sonoma feels like it fits in that kind of category. It feels like a finish.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:47

I have a hard time. This time, and I think Nick, I think you would agree with me. I have a really hard time pulling back from that like very objective this flavor versus this flavor, and I allow the experience to to warp my um like overall experience, and then and then that will tinge my lover, not hate, but my love for something. Like, I will definitely put something on a pedestal, like Rittenhouse. I will put that on a pedestal, probably higher than it should be, because of the experiences we've had with it, along with along with the flavor and the history and the story and the mash pill and everything else.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:25

I would agree, but ours is something different and unique in the fact that we got started into whiskey for the experience. For the experience, we were at the the the liquor store. Right. It was almost like what's something new, and then we'd come here and we'd open it and we'd probably have dinner afterwards.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:40

And we didn't have we never Googled it, we decided what we thought about it, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:03:44

So it was always the experience. We had some duds and we had some greats along the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:48

We chased the experience.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:50

Yes, it was always we don't chase the whiskey, we chase the experience, and I feel like you two had more of a preconceived notion of what this should be. Yeah, what this probably would be, what you would expect it, and because it was so different.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

Things could also lower very quickly for us versus other people not so much. Something could disappoint us really quickly because we kind of lead with this whole experience type. It wasn't worth the experience. Like, this is supposed to be from this distillery, we know this distillery, we like this distillery, this is not good. All of a sudden, I hate it. I hate it, you know. Or it's the thing of like that bad.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:22

I knew it was locally sourced or told it was now it's not locally. You had the experience, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:26

Like, that was locally sourced from California, so it was not Canada.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:30

But it was that experience of like this is locally sourced, this is something that's local. It all the grains are there, and then we try and we're like, okay, this experience was not what I was told, it was not what I was prepared for. Like, this is something different along the way. Uh, but the guy that's trying to get away from this, Bob. I'm very, very curious. I saw your cringe moment of you would go after the not the Sonoma. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

What what what was that cringe moment? Um okay. Well, first off, I I need to uh take it back just a second because we were talking about Rent House. I need to give a shout out to Ryan uh because he introduced me to that and gave me a cigar pipe after he found out mine was broke.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:19

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:21

Good job, Ryan. I had a boy Ryan. You don't know that kind of scholar. There's not a man alive that doesn't like Ryan that meets him, you know. Before then, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:32

If you don't know him, you don't know him. Yeah, you don't know him, you don't know. Sorry, such a good dude. I'm pretty sure my wife was happy the house didn't smell like cigar or uh pipe tobacco for a while, but uh thanks, Ryan. Um, but I will say with the uh Sonoma and um the doc. So I do I will say for the Sonoma, I do like it. And that would probably be my like morning sipper. I I I honestly. Think that would be a great morning or afternoon sipper, but I'm totally going for the doc for the evening.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:05

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:06

Um, the taste.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:07

There was okay. So Chris and I talk about the moment, the memory. And there was almost this like glimmer in your eye of like Herm saying Sonoma and be like, no. And looking at the doc, like there was a reason you looked at the dock of like this.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

But you but you have to you have to take into account that he said morning versus night. Right. Yeah. And I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. I agree, but you're you're asking a different question.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:31

I mean, I there was something else there.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

So I go. Am I wrong? No, you're not. So uh when I go, when I'm thinking of the doc, I'm thinking of um old school, like I'm thinking of my grandpa listening to the Frank Sinatra, pulling out his bottle, uh grandma cook again, making the top, the toffee, the salt water toffee. So it's bringing back like memories for me. And when I taste it, I can taste that. And I'm not saying this is like some $80 bottle or anything, but this is like to me a good, cheaper bottle that I can enjoy at night and still it's an everyday drink, it's an everyday sipper. And I I honestly I think I have a different palette than most, but I really like the taste of this.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:18

So I love that because Chris and I always talk about the memory that's tied with the bottle, like it brings up something. And I love the fact that Herm's like, guys, the Sonoma's worth it. The doc is okay. Sonoma all day, I'll take that. And for you, you're like, the Sonoma's good, but there's a memory that this just triggers. I'm not saying this is amazing. Yeah, I'm not saying the doc is amazing, but I'm saying I've got this memory that it triggers when I when I smell this, when I drink it, when I look at it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:46

The dock is a porch whiskey. Yes. And if you if you grew up with grandparents specifically, uh, you know, the the type that would wake up at 5 30 every morning and smoke cigarettes the entire day and drink black coffee, no matter if it was 120 degrees outside, and went yard sailing. And it was outside, they know. They went yard sailing in a very old Buick. These are these are your grandparents, right? Uh that reminds me of evenings on my grandparents' porch with the mosquitoes coming in and the cicadas buzzing, and they're making dinner in their smelly, cigar smelly or cigarette smelly house, and you're gonna eat it, right? Uh that does invoke a memory. The Sonoma, uh, but not so much memory, but it is good. I do like it. It's different, it's it's fresh, it's different. It's uh it's a moment versus a memory. Moment versus a memory, yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:43

It creates a moment versus a memory, yeah. Very nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

I can I can agree with that. Like I said, I don't have a memory that I can tie to that bottle. So I I but I see what you're saying is like that's more of that classic, like just it kind of you it's that it's that experience, right? It kind of ties everything together. Whereas if you're just looking for the flavor and for that moment, what's different? And I was you know, I joking to give him a hard time and it's like, is do you think that the Sonoma is your your breakfast or your or your you know daytime drinker because it's it's got some flavor and it's like a meal in a glass, and then your other, you know, the other bottle, this bottle is more of a it's an evening drink because it's boring and I'm ready to go to sleep. You know, for me that's you know it's a little hardier, but it's a little harder. You're hearing him say that, I definitely understand like why you know if you if you have that, if you have that memory that it ties you. We talk about this all the time, like the dusty corn bottles. Like that's the grain forward stuff always gets me. The Barker's Mill, right? Like, I that's like my favorite. Like I can't shake it. Like, I just I keep going back to that bottle because I love that grain forward, dusty barn. Slapping the table. It takes me back to like when I was a little kid. Uh why, I don't know. I mean, I worked in some on some farms, but I was never in like a dusty old cornbell or anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:01

Those sight, sounds, smell like memories.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

Yeah, and I can see where this bottle could have that effect, you know, effect of if you're especially if you're like a salt, like a saltwater coffee or taffy and whatever. You know, I just don't have that. I feel like for me, I don't have that connection to pull it all together. Is the bottle good? Yeah, it's not bad, but hearing someone talk about it like that, it makes me want to like let me let me. I almost like as he's talking, I was like, I don't know, I need to pour another glass in there. Did I try this wrong before? Did I try did I try the wrong glass? Like what we know, did I do something wrong here? Um, and maybe and maybe it's because I'm smoking that it changed it a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:37

That's what spirits is all about. Yeah, you're bringing back past memories and present memories and and and you know, thinking of the future too. Like it's all spirits, you know what I mean? Like that's what it's all about. I I think if we if it was just about the liquid inside, we've talked about this. If it was just about the liquid inside, we would not be talking about this with a microphone in our face. People wouldn't want to hear about it, people wouldn't want to join a club or listen to a podcast or anything. It's more than just uh the liquid.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:08

It's kind of like we mentioned this idea of uh shots versus sips. Yeah, there's there's shots versus sips, but we don't do the shots, no, we're we're the sips.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:18

There are times in your life where you do some shots, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:20

Right, yeah, yeah. But there's sometimes might not be done. There's moments for shots, there's moments for sips. And these are the moments that we're like, this is the sips, these are the conversations, these are the we don't get conversations with the shots, right? Right. There's a reason why we really haven't had much of Jameson on the podcast. Jameson is a shot.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:39

I I like we talked about it. I like to talk about it because of the memories I have, right? But it fond memories of taking shots, right? It's it's a it's a shot. I mean sometimes sipping, but for the most part, it's mostly pretty, pretty black outside.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:51

It gets up there for a season. Pretty blackout, yeah. There there's certain bottles that are like it's a shot. There's some that are the sips, it's the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:59

I don't know. I I I'm just I'm trying to really kind of just find something there. And there is something there. The second time around, so I just kind of clean cleansed my palate a little bit, uh, had some water, sat down the pipe for a little while, and I've I I did pour myself a little bit more of this, yeah. This announcement, no, uh of the dock, the doc whiskey. Um, and I there's something there. And I couldn't I can't put my finger on it. And and for I would like to say that you sold me on it in terms of like the way you talked about it. Like it made me want, it made me want to pour another glass, you know, and it was like I wasn't even sure I liked it or I didn't like it, but your your argument was compelling, and I'm like, man, maybe let me let me go back to that memory, let me see if I can pull a memory a memory, if it's not that memory, you know. And I get a little bit more of like a little bit more of that sweet, that that caramely sweetness now. Still very proofy, still got a lot of bite to it, but different still. Like I said, I I had it, you know, neat with with the smoke, and then I had it with a little bit of water, and now I'm coming back to it neat without the smoke. And it is different, it's got a little bit more to it now. I wouldn't say it's bad. I still I yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't say it's something I would jump to still. I don't know. There's something weird, it's it's it's just a hard. This is honestly, that makes me almost want to buy a bottle of it, which comes back to, I guess it circles back to like I feel like a flake. I can't even stand on my own ground. Like it's that there's something to it, and it's like I don't almost need to buy a bottle and just drink it and be like, do I like this or do I not?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:35

How how amazing. We've talked about this. But how amazing is whiskey. This is this is the stuff, this is the stuff that makes me and Nick geek out and get excited because all of a sudden, perspective changes everything. And with and drinking whiskey without perspective is like a blind person appreciating art. It just does, it's not gonna happen. I can explain it to you, you're not gonna get it. But when you see it, things change.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:03

It's like different, it's like different whiskeys are gonna speak to you differently, right? Like there's certain things, like certain people might try Barker's Mill and be like, that's yeah, that's not good. I don't like I feel like Blake would be like, Nope, don't like that. But but but I love I love that. But like me, I was like, I tried it and it was like, I was like, I was kind of mind blown the first time. I tried it at your house. And after that point, I was like, and I looked for it. I was like, I'm gonna keep my eye out for it, I'm gonna get this bottle at some point. Like that's on my wish list. And I found it recently, but it had been a really long time. It had been almost probably a year, if not more, than since I had tried it. And then I got my hands on it and I was like, I really hope this doesn't disappoint me. Cause I remember loving it, but I didn't remember why. Like, I just remember being like, I remember it's like the first sip I took. I looked at Nick and I was like, I need this bottle. And he's like, Well, not in Ohio. Good luck.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:51

I'm like good luck with that. But I remember listening to the podcast, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:55

And so for me, I'm like, man, I'm gonna find I'm gonna find this bottle. And so when I got it, I was like, Oh, and I cracked it open and I had a drink, and I was like, and it was just like boom, that rush of like all of the flavor, and I'm like, man, this is this is what I look for. This is like it's for me, it's the this is the gold standard of like poetry to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:13

There have you ever read poetry at a certain stage in your life and be like, okay, I don't get it. And later on, you leave you read it and you're like, This hits me, right? Or vice versa, something that hit you when you were a teenager. Now you read it and you're like, God, I was immature. You know what I mean? It's just an interesting thing that a collection of words written down by somebody's uh it expressed feelings that you read at a certain phase in your life didn't touch you, but at a different phase does. And that to me is what makes poetry valuable, whether you like it or not. There's there's room for appreciation in there depending on the stage of your life you're in, right? Well, it's like any good literature, you can't get good literature.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:50

Yeah, you go back and read a book that you were you read in high school that you didn't appreciate or you didn't really kind of get grasp everything that was there, and it's like this is this is like you know, the ultimate, you know, penultimate book or novel. And it's like the the layout that poetry gets over books is there's less words, so it's easier to and then you go back and you read a book as like an adult after you've had kids or after you've had you've experienced loss, right? Like, and then it's like whoa.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:17

The best is when you read something that touched you when you were younger, and you read it again when you're older, and it touches you in a different way. That's powerful. But I I I just I I just love that aspect, and I think that spirits have that. Uh not all, but but we just heard that from Herm. Yeah, and I think that that's that's something that should be taken note of and should be revered.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:39

I mean, I think again, that's that's the experience that I love. Yeah, like we tried something new, and that was like, oh, I didn't like it at first, and then I tried it again. I was like, Oh, maybe maybe it's not that I don't love it. I don't know. But now I have something this different undecided on the bottle.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:55

Yeah, but I think in your indecision, we've seen you mature in the last five five minutes.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:00

You have a different perspective because you're like, this is something, this means something to someone else.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:05

Yeah, you care about it, and then you're like it's like you hear about it. You're like, oh, let me pull that part of your brain, let me feel that to yourself. Right. Because like I know that memory. I've had that, like I've had that experience. Let me tie that memory to this.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:18

Thinking of it in that way, I appreciated it. And that that's that's cool. It is cool, it's a lot of fun to watch. I'm gonna geek out of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:26

Yeah, I mean, I feel like silly because it's like I was so like, man, it just doesn't do it for me. It doesn't do it for me. And now I'm like, well, you kind of sold it. Let me let me go back and try it. The number of times, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:36

The number of times that Chris is like, I hate this bottle, it's not the best. And then Steve when I talk about he's like, okay, well, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:42

Well, hold on a minute.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:43

Hold on, okay. So for me, that's where I stand with Willet, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:46

Like, I keep revisiting that bottle. Because I say nothing but good stuff about Willet.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:50

I bought the Willet four-year rye, and I bought the Willet Pot still. Pot still, I was not a huge fan of. It was just kind of too funky for me. And but the bottle was great. I'm like, the bottle's awesome, it's worth having, like around. And some people love it, some people hate it. It's you're either one or the other.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:04

There's there's only two camps, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:05

And then the four-year rye, I can't, it's I I can't, I'm like walking the line, right? Of like, I like it, I don't like it. Yeah, I hate it. And then next time I try it, I'm like, it's not so bad. But for me, I'm I'm very indecisive. And for like this bottle feels like that, but for me, it feels like I've been and I feel like like almost like dirty, you know, like I've been swayed. And it's like, I don't know, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:32

And he's like, about any other product.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:36

Yeah, I mean, and that's I think that's that's what makes whiskey power experience. It's a powerful product, you know. I feel like most whiskeys I try it and this is good, this is bad, or I'm in I'm very indifferent. And I felt like I was indifferent, leaning towards like I don't really care for this. I could see why certain people would like it, but not for me. And then now coming back to it and revisiting it, I'm like, do I like it?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:00

Like, oh is there a part of me? Was I an a-hole? Yeah, like was I too quick? Yeah, I I've done that so many times. Did I judge this book by its color?

SPEAKER_07 1:19:10

Did I jump on this too quick? Let me let me backpedal here.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:13

And for me, I yeah, it is what would it be some something I would chase? No. Is it something that's worthwhile to drink with friends? Like if if we pulled this out at Whiskey Club, would I have another glass and just kind of talk with the guys about it? Probably.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:26

I mean, let me ask you this. After all, all of this, do you appreciate the the fact that you had it versus not having it? Yeah. I mean, no, that's all that it needs to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:36

I mean, I won't say I always feel that way about whiskey.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:38

Add to your overall, the the overall what makes you Herm, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:45

There's enough of a differential here that I can feel some something. Like it didn't something's happening.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:51

It added it added to it, didn't take away. And now I have this experience.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:55

If I have this class again, I think it will it'll I'll flash back to it and be like, man, I why did I it now and I think if I have this again later, I might be like, yeah, no, I definitely don't like this. Or I will flash back and have this this memory tied to it and be like, yeah, no, I like I do like this. I actually I realize I do like this. The more you drink of anything, the more you're gonna like it.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:18

Let's be real. Any experience, any experience we have that we feel like adds value to us as a hu as a person is such a beneficial thing. And I think that if it didn't either take away from or leave you the same, that's a plus. That's a huge plus. You know what I mean? Even if it takes away from.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:35

Well, I mean, sometimes like this is Kessler's, this is dog shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:38

Yeah, to Kessler's can Kessler's can you make you a better person just by drinking it's this?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:43

And now I know what because you shouldn't taste it.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:45

You will run away from that thing. Yeah. So sometimes I think take now.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:48

I know bad, like it's like learning from someone, like you're like, you can learn from somebody who's like you know, in your profession.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:54

If you're not bad at someone, experience can be a good experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:57

A bad experience can be a good experience because you realize, like, oh, I don't, I don't want to be that person. Yeah, that's a good idea. I want to be more like this person.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:04

Yeah, sometimes you have to see the darkness before you can appreciate the light.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:07

Absolutely. Uh but this whiskey is different. I think I I definitely think it was something I I would be I would be interested to try this again at a future date, only to see, do I like and it's that's how I and with the Willet. I keep coming back to it to see if I later on like maybe I do like it, maybe I don't, because I tried it so early in my whiskey journey that didn't like specifically. Yeah, and it's like I'm gonna come back to it later. And I and I revisit it every every so often, and it's like it still sucks. Like, I don't hate it, but I don't love it. It's somewhere in between, but then there's other whiskeys that you have, and you're just like, Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:46

Yeah, there's some that you have, then you're like, Why did I hate this? This is amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:50

Yeah, this is so good, and that's what I'm hoping.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:52

I'm hoping it can just be the moment you're in when you try it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:56

There, the whole thing with Willet and the family, and like to love them.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:01

I would love for Willet to partner with us, like some of the other places we've had, because I I love Willet. I I love everything about it. I want to love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

I want to love their product.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:14

They're flavored. If you either I always tell people you either like Willet or you don't, there's really no in between. And I I love it, but I uh it but it's the difference between you know, some people don't like you know uh fish or something, and some people do, you know. I or cilantro, I guess that's more of a some people either like cilantro or you're done.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:33

It either tastes like soap or you love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:35

Yeah, and uh, you know, I I'm a liker of cilantro, I like cilantro. So I mean I I don't understand the people that don't like cilantro, but like I get that there's a chemical thing in your head that says not good, not good.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:45

There's something wrong with you that says it's not good. I get that.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:48

I remember talking to you about I could be the wrong guy. I could I could be a chemically wrong, right? And I'm I'm fine with being wrong. I'm I'm completely cool with being a wrong type of individual. Because it tastes so good, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:58

Yeah, because I think this is something I would definitely be interested, like if Nick has it in his cabinet in I don't know, three months, six months at a club night, he pulls it out and uh let me try that again.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:11

Just whip just whips it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:13

Let me try it again and see just whips it out. He tends to do that at club nights, depending on how much he's had to drink, but yeah, or fall down, or fall down, or or or or take a slip, yeah, slip and slide down the stairs. But I for me, I think it's just it's it's it's not polarizing. I'm kind of walking that line of like, do I like it, do I not like it? I don't know because it's it's it has kind of grown on me a little bit. So I would be interested to like come back and retry this without it being tainted by anything else other than this memory to see if like nope, yep, I do like that. And I think if I try it again in six months, I'll be like, yes or no. There's not gonna be an in-between.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:54

We should rem make a reminder.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:56

Yeah, oh, it's a reminder.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:57

Yeah, people listening. Remind us six months from now, even at the barbecue, like in the summertime. Like, hey, try this. Try this. What do you think? Like, just pour me a glass, don't tell me what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:05

I'm just gonna be like, remember this. I tell you what, guys, I'm I'm a I'm an environment guy, so I really like to set my environment for drinks. Again, if you heard me say earlier, Frank Sinatra, I'm a Jack Sinatra guy. So, but um this bottle here, I think. If and you've heard me talk about this before. I've done reenactments. I was an old 1880s cowboy. Oh, dude, that's legit. Um, and I would love reenactments. Yeah, I think I have a plan for the for the clubs.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:35

We're gonna do a reenactment.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:37

I I might have to take you guys as a cowboy. I might have to take you guys down there, but I'd love that, man.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:42

Um I I thought we were gonna be a part of the card. I just be kidding.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:46

Look, I think I might have to put you guys in this. Okay. Perfect. Um, I think this bottle and Herm, let me tell you, I I think you would love this in that environment.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:58

I I I think if you if you had a dusty cowboy and a dolphin in the town with your six shooters on, yep. Got you in some apples sitting outside. We could get you in some chabs. Some chaps looking to play some black jacks, somebody looks at you the wrong way.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:16

Let's just say I think I think that might be a good podcast. I like that thing. Okay, good book. That sounds like a good time.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:23

Hey, don't threaten me with a good time. Cowboy, cowboy, and is sounds like a good time to me. I would do, I would do all about dude. I would role play the crap out of that. I would be so in character, you wouldn't be able to get me out.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:35

Is that chewing tobacco?

SPEAKER_05 1:25:37

Like, what is he doing?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:38

I think we'd have to showered in seven weeks.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:41

Yeah, we'd have to do a podcast.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:43

We don't know how to do the video.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:44

Why do you smell like a horse? He's like, I've actually been rolling in horse movement for three days with my horse. Getting into character, okay. I'm a method actor. I'm a method. I only have this saddle. This saddlebag is all I have to my name. I think circling back to this, I think this is a bottle to try if you can find it. Yeah, is it you know, is it worth a lot of money? Probably not. Is it worth something? I think try it. Try it and see what you think. It has a you know value to try. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's kind of where I was. I was more of a try it before you buy it, but if it's at a decent price, I'd say I say buy it. It's a cool bottle, you know. For me, like I said, once again, I marketing is for me is pretty cool and it's very apothecary forward. You know, you could stick it on your shelf and let it get all dusty and old looking and be like pull it out and be like, check this bottle out. And somebody would be like, This is awesome. Yeah, this is pre-prohibition. Like, no, actually, it's like MGP and it's like two years old, whatever. From last year, actually, but yeah, yeah, but you didn't know that, and now you think it's really good, you know. I think, yeah, I think going back to it, I would be very interested to retry this again at a later date. Maybe blinded. Okay. We should do a we should do some blinds.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:55

Hey, here's some whiskey, try this. Blinded by the light. Chris has to pull out his cop flashlight. Blind us and then try it.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:00

We've talked about doing blinds on the podcast, which I don't think people have done yet, but that would be interesting. We could kind of a blind on blind because you're listening, right? Blind on blind on blind. Yeah. Something to think about in the future. Let us know if you want to do blind on blind. I think it's a good idea. Blind on blind.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:20

You try to uh wrap this up and close this up for everyone. So stay tuned.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:25

We'll be back for some more smoking and drinking.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:27

Until then. And good times. Yes. Until then. Until then. Have fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:36

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspa.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.