Woodford Reserve!

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Oh, while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

We're doing something very special and very hard to get your hands on.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Hard to get your hands on. I mean, we're talking Bourbon 101. If we could do any more basic, um and is there anything more basic than this that you could think of? Bullet.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Maybe bullets. Basic enough that Steve. But this one's a bit older.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Uh this one, this bottle's been open for a while, so maybe it's got some age or it's got some oxidization going on. Yeah, we got we got ourselves uh Woodford. Now, you know what? Uh sadly, no, actually, this nope. Nope. I keep going back and forth in my head. We're we're gonna miss the whole derby. Oh, yeah. But Woodford is like Woodford known for its derby. Oh, Woodford is known for the derby. Uh the mint juleps with Woodford go for an insane amount of money, an ungodly amount of money.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Well, you know what's funny is like non-bourbon people and people getting into bourbon. Like what back in the day, Woodford was kind of like the tits.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

It was, it was the intro.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

It was the intro to Stings. This was your good bourbon. Yes. This was your not bottom of the barrel. This is your straight bourbon. People came over and you poured this.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

People were like, Oh damn.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, you were like, bro, you're a bourbon guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Splurge and top shelf, you went double oaked. You went all the way to double oaked things. Oh man, and that was special. Oh yeah. That was the that was super special.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

People bought that stuff because they knew it was good, like and it was available and it was like, Oh yeah. Well, you think about that.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

So double oaked was what 50 bucks at the time? And people were like, Yeah, that might have been a little bit more. It was probably always around 60 or so. But it was one of those, like, that was a bit extreme. Yeah, that would that was a bit extreme. Yeah, yeah. Now people are like, ah, Woodford double oaked, that's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

That's nothing. I I feel like Woodford really has kind of fallen out of favor unless you're talking about cocktails, which is crazy because it's not a it's not like a cocktail, like it's a bourbon, you know what I mean? Like right, it's done. Like it's not we're not talking about like Jim Beam White, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 2:41

It's never been super cheap.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Woodford? Oh, it's always been around that $40 mark, which is about the going right.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

When I say super cheap, their whole it's never been a it's never been a in you know in the well.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

It's not a well, it's never been in the well, but then when you jump outside of their basic, it's never been a uh it's not a premium either, but it would be a premium in a cocktail. But yeah, so you jump past the basic and it's but before that, it was never a good price, it was a a premium, right? And then you you jump up to double oaked and then you jump up to their mat their their what distiller batch or master batch or master collection, master collection just jumps up and price tagged where it's like, okay, well, what am I doing here? Like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I drank so much Woodford back in the like and everybody did this, right? But like I had like empty bottles, like my soap was a Woodford bottle, my mouthwash was a Woodford bottle.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you would reuse the bottle for other things because I I drank so much of it. It's a unique bottle. I was gonna say the bottle is very unique to it.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

It's very unique for a lot of bourbon out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

It doesn't look like uh it doesn't look like it's a uh a fifth, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't feel like I grabbed a yeah, it doesn't feel like I grabbed a fifth of something.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

No, it's a more elegant version of Gentleman Jack, the bottle, which is funny because Gentleman Jack's supposed to be elegant in itself, but I like the room note on this. I just realized it's a very good note. That's very grandpa grandma. What are we doing? Sunday picnic. Steve picked it.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Oh, that's what you're smoking the uh on Sunday the other day.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everybody listening, this has got 10 years of age on it, which for Crystal is great. Yeah, I mean, it's got 10 years of age on it, and uh uh it's just a unique flake tobacco. One that I bought years ago and I never tried. I bought two, one to try and wanted to sell her. I sellered them both, so um I have another 10 when this one's done, but I do like it, and I didn't realize the room note was this good because now I'm sitting here and I'm smelling it from a non-smoking person's uh person's perspective. But yeah, it's good. I like it, and I'm excited to light this one up once I get this flake rubbed out.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

I'm very curious how this will uh pair with the basic bottle we have.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I think it's gonna pair well because this is kind of a it's kind of a basic tobacco smell.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Uh it's got some unique stuff going on, but for the most part, just good. And that's what this is part of that Cornell and Deal's simply elegant line, I think they call it. It's basically just like good, like really good quality. And I think that this actually might elevate for me the Woodford because Woodford used to be good, and now it's just not worth something I think about.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Well, and I shouldn't say it's not good, it's not it's not that it's not good, it's not Woodford's fault. It's it's that we're no longer 101 drinkers. There we go. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

It went from good to me to just like, but like it's still good. Like, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

It's and you know who would love stuff like this is like the non-bourbon people still, like if I made this in a cocktail for Laura, she would definitely because it is really good in a cocktail, it really it's really friendly and well done and quality and all and all the things you'd want from a I haven't even poured it yet. Have you poured yours? I've got my poured, I haven't taken a drink though. I've been just over here playing with my pipe, getting this thing loaded. Okay, let's light it.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

One thing about Woodford bottles is that there's basically no information on them. There's there's not a back label really to to to speak of. So there's no like story really kind of basic, huh? Or anything. It's kind of basic. Kind of one-on-one. There is now, I get there is a little strip label on the back that just says uh says mentions where they're made or whatever since 1812. And they say there's 200 detectable flavor notes. 200, 200, yeah. I'm curious about those are if I believe that. Uh they do mention some of them: bold grain and wood, sweet aromatics, spice, and fruit, and floral notes. I love how there's two like there is 200, there's definitely 200 flavors, but detectable flavors?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

They they just selected all of the categories. There we go. The basic categories, wood. You get what over the word sweet aromatics, spices, fruit and floral notes.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

You're asking me right now, like, give me 200 flavors of of anything, of everything. I don't know if I could come up with 200 of anything, of everything, of my life. What are the flavors you've tried in your lifetime? I don't think I can come up with 200. I'm I'm no there's more than that, but like that's a lot of words.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

I know this will surprise everyone. I actually don't own uh I own one bottle of Woodford, and there's only one reason why I own this bottle. It's a Woodford double oaked store pick, but it's from the very first Secret Santa whiskey uh exchange that we had. It was the very first one that the roommates and I did, and I got a bottle of Woodford double oaked out of Connecticut, and that's the only bottle I have, and probably will ever own.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

I will say to that, I think everybody should have a Woodford and a Woodford double oaked in their collection.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I really like Woodford double-oaked. Yeah, double-oaked is a is a massive step up from regular Woodford.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Although I will say I've had double-oaked bottles I've really liked, and I've had some that I didn't. Really? And I have one out there right now that I opened up, I bought and opened up a maybe a year ago or something. And I was like, this is not good, which is the first time I've ever said that with double oaked. So I don't know, but and they do make double double oaked. Double double oaked, yeah, which should be interesting. But I I will say if if you have a collection and you like pouring things, if you have a bar for people to come over and drink, you have to have Woodford and Woodford double oaked. Yeah, like and that's the thing is Woodford's become a staple. They have done that to themselves, where it's like they you will have like you will not you will see Snickers on Halloween, period. Like Snickers has become, if you don't have Snickers, you know what I mean? Like everybody, like it is it become one of those things, you have to have it. I mean, you might go with this or that or whatever, but Snickers is a basic, you will have this kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

It's also a name that you can come up with if you're new to bourbon and you're trying to say that you like bourbon, it's a name that you might be able to throw out.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

It's Papa John's. It's in a good way, you know what I mean? Like some people don't like Papa John's, but they know it.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

So let me they've had it. Let me let me do this experiment with you guys. Uh, when I name these events, tell me what whiskey you think of. Brands. Okay. The memorial tournament, PGA Memorial. Any whiskey brand coming to mind?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Well, probably golf. I don't know, probably Woodford. Because golf.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

So Masters, would you think? Yeah, I would think same thing with all golf.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I would think probably Woodford. Probably Super Bowl? Any Beam, maybe? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

There's not a particular brand coming out.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Yeah. Uh what's a Wimbledon?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Like tennis? Anything? I don't watch these things, but if I were to, if you were to ask me, I would probably say Wimbledon. Something fancy, probably. It's something more like I think gin, honestly. Don Hoolie Whiskey. Don Julio.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

Yeah. Okay. Uh, what about uh like the World Series for baseball?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Anything? The World Series for baseball is wild turkey, dude. Yeah, wild wild turkey and uh freaking uh uh Red Man chewing to bet. Well, they don't have Red Man anymore now. Americans, America's best uh you, Steve.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Anything? No Kentucky Derby. Yeah, it's Woodford. Yeah, that's Woodford for sure. So I think I think the reason why Woodford has become a household name is because of the Derby. The Derby. They think of fancy, they think of mint juleps.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Uh, think Old Forster tried haven't been doing Woodford at the Derby for that long, have they? They have for a long, long time.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Oh, yeah, yeah. But it's only been the last few years that they've like changed up the label and done that thing. But they've always they've been like the sponsor.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

And the funny thing is, Old Forster uh a couple years ago tried their hand at competing with Woodford by doing the mint jewelry. They did. And they still have it, but they have it all year round. Yeah, but it didn't, it didn't work. No one can compete with Woodford when it comes to the Kentucky Derby, and I think that's why it's become a household name, is people pair horse racing's not fancy, but you bring these fancy hats out, and it's like this uh like plantation owner. It sounds really bad, but this like plantation owner, rich white person going out and and sitting at the Derby, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

It's my fair lady, dude.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Yeah, and that that's and people think Woodford is like this fancy it's it's a it's a thing that's made fancy with the cocktail and everything else. Yeah, it's madmen, it's this idea of like we're back in the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Dude, it's it's Pim's cups, and yeah, it's just the whole gambit. But I I think that uh it Woodford goes to that, the cocktail and and dark derby, uh the way Bush Light goes to NASCAR, right? Like it's not you're not gonna sit down and drink a uh mint julep at NASCAR, you know what I mean? You will do it at horse racing, both racing, ones with a horse and jockeys and fancy dresses and hats and and and cucumber sandwiches.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

Could you think of a better basic bourbon to have at an event like that than Woodford?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

I don't think I can think of a better basic quality. Oh, you think bet good basic quality bourbon for cocktails in general? Like if if you were like, I'm gonna put a quality bourbon, a basic quality bourbon in a cocktail, this probably would be the best thing because beam is too beam, turkey's too turkey, everything else is too, I don't know, or maybe not enough of I don't know. This is very, you don't think about it, but it is very good for like whatever you want. Straight, mixed, coke, ice, cocktail. You really could do a lot, and it's not gonna be too expensive to do that stuff, it's not gonna be too inexpensive to drink straight. How much is just a bottle of wood for it? No, it's like 40, 50. I don't think it's under 50 bucks. I think it is under 50. It might be close to 40. You could get it on sale probably for for like high 30s, low 40s. I don't even drink it.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

I'm trying to think of last time I've had wood for it in a very regular uh and I remember last time having it being like, oh, this is like water, which it's not even 80 proof, it's 92 or 94 or something like that on there.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

This is uh 90.4. 90.4. 90 proof, so it's uh but honestly, that's the blends 90 proof.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Now, do they have uh a decent history?

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Woodford's got a big history, yeah. Yeah, I mean they've been around for a while, so I would assume they'd have a decent history.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I don't know what it is uh exactly, but I know that they have quite a bit, and their distillery is massive. Oh, beautiful, man, commercial and massive, yeah. So it's part of the pepper story, James E.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Pepper? So it was owned by Elijah Pepper. It was called the Oscar Pepper Distillery when it first started. This would be a a uh uh uh after James E. Pepper. So it'd be like a grandson or a cousin or something, but it's it's post pepper. Post pepper, yeah. This is uh post Malone Pepper. James is is Colonel's this one's this one's been crushed, but uh Brown Foreman bought it later on, right? Right, right, right, right. So they took over in the 40s, sold it in the 60s, but then rebought it in the 90s, so they they owned it and took it back and then all that. So they just kind of played around and with it for quite a while. And they own it now, still, yes, they own it now. Yeah, it was 96 that it became the Woodford Distillery. That's when they like that's when the name became name showed up was in '96. That was the second buy. Was that the second buyout by Brown Foreman? Uh they bought it the second time, yeah, in '93. Okay. So shortly after. Shortly after they renamed it.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Interesting that they own that, but they don't own like JTS Brown. It just kills me. They can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

I guess they can't do it, but they they I mean, they own JTS Brown and they sold it. I know, but Heaven Hill has it now. They probably won't give it up.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Uh well, Brown Foreman didn't want it anymore because they couldn't make money off of it.

unknown 15:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

That that was the crazy, they couldn't make enough money off of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

I don't want Heaven Hill to give it up because it's pretty the way it is. But if I was like, if it was like part of the Brown family, and you didn't own it, and you had like HTS bourbon, which was stood for like, and everybody knew that was like Cuba check, whatever, whatever bourbon. And I was like, Yeah, I'm cool with not having that. Like, but I'm gonna buy Woodford. I need Woodford, you know what I mean? I don't know, whatever. That's it. It just freaks me out that there's JTS Brown out there and Brown Foreman doesn't own it, but whatever.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Anyway, getting back to Woodford, which is interesting because Brown Foreman also owns Old Forester, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

And Old Forester at one point owned Woodford.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yeah, but it's interesting that old Forester try to compete with them for the derby, right? Like even within the same company, the derby could manage this, we could we could compete and do it, and they're like, nope. Because they still own it, right? Yeah, Brown Foreman owns both of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

So technically, you could say old Forester and Woodford are they're in bed together.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

They're there's they're siblings, yeah. So they're kids and cousins for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, and I so were they really competing, or were they just trying to like broaden, broaden, broaden the old Forester lineup?

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Like just trying to get something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

We'll try it with old Forester. And yeah, and don't give me, I mean, I am an old Forester fanatic, right? We know this. So I have had that and I have tried it, and I think it is great. It's just Woodford kind of was the king of the hill, and now you're there. That's it. Like you tried to push him off. Did they're Arnold Schwarzenegger for that? Like, you're not gonna top that like you there's has there been better bodybuilders than Arnold Schwarzenegger? Yeah, but no, you know what I mean? Like, no, like there has been, but no, like even Ronnie Coleman has not Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? So you're just not gonna be able to outdo Woodford when it comes to mint juleps. I think if you make a mint julep without Woodford, it's like what's the point? Turn around and go home. Like, what are what did you do here, loser? You know what I mean? I they've kind of like that's part of it, like it's become one of those things. But yeah, I don't know. What do you guys think about let's talk about the flavor a little bit? Uh for people for I bet nobody doesn't know what this is. You know what I mean? There's no way that people listening have not tried Woodford.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah, if you've gone to some and you decide you're a bourbon guy, you're gonna start listening to podcasts about bourbon, you've probably already tried. You've already tried Woodford, you have your own opinions, but you might be new-ish and still haven't had a lot of them, of these like basic uh one of the the ones that everyone has had the nod craft, not specialty, just the the shelfers.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

The the the Burger Kings and McDonald's is of which this is like Burger King.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

This isn't McDonald's.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

No, Jim Beam's McDonald's. No, I'm saying that it's not, it's the lesser, one of the lesser known. You got McDonald's, Jim Beam, you got Wendy's wild turkey, you got but something specialty, and you equate that to Chick-fil-A, but it but this is like Burger King, it's good, and when you want it, it's good, but it's also like not something you don't ever go like I'm in the mood for a Burger King, yeah, but you do get I'm in the mood for McDonald's or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Uh onion rings and zessy sauce. That's it. That's the best, that's the only thing keeping them alive.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Well, that and the whopper. I will say, I mean, I haven't had it in a while because I can't eat the gluten and stuff, but uh there is something about a whopper, just like there's something about a Big Mac or whatever, you know, like it's unique to itself, and I do like that flame kind of grilled meat, but the tomato and the onion and the lead, like it's having it loaded down.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

You gotta load it down versus like McDonald's or whatever they skimp on all that. You don't get your tomato, you don't get your onion.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, the closest thing the McDonald's ever came to the Whopper was called the Big and Tasty. You remember this? It had tomato and lettuce and whatnot on it, but the big and tasty was good. That was a good sandwich.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

But was it big and tasty? It wasn't that big.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

I used to get two of them, so it wasn't that big. You know, uh Burger King used to have the quad stacker. Remember this? I used to.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

I think they go to a triple still.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

They don't do the quad anymore because it was like uh it was 162 grams of protein. There was like 200 grams of fat. So it was basically their big patties, and it was patty, a whole layer of bacon, cheese, patty, bacon, cheese, patty, bacon, cheese, patty, bacon, cheese. That's how much it was. And I remember one day I ate two of those for lunch. That's a lot. That's a lot of freaking food, dude. Two of those for lunch and a big um, I you know those BFC monsters, the big effing cane. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had one of those and two quad stackers, and my dad was like, You're gonna die. Yeah. I mean, I mean you can imagine that was like probably like over 400, like almost 400 grams of protein in one, like one womp, you know, but that was intense. It was good though, dude.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

It was I imagine it was really good.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, yeah. That's a lot of meat and bacon and cheese and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

But what do you think of the flavor? So it's thin, uh, but it's kind of like floral, sweet.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

That isn't bad, like it's not lends itself to an uh to mint julep.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Yeah, exactly. It's it's it I feel like it it works very well for a cocktail because of how thin it is. It doesn't have a lot of like deep flavors, but there are like floral notes, it's not very like alcohol-y. No, like you don't get a lot of like it's not cheap, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

It's friendly, it's quality, yeah. It's air quote smooth. It's got good, I think it's got the the most flavor kicks in like maybe right after the the the first half, like you get like halfway through that that initial, like when you drink it, then after like that, like what would they be like 60% through, probably around 60%. And then here's the thing though, when it's done, it's gone. Yeah, there's no aftertaste aftertaste, there's no finish, there's no it's almost like when you take a sip of iced tea, uh like it's not lingering on your palate. That's the most you get on your palate is like I've been drinking something, like iced tea is, but it doesn't linger. Actually, this would go really well with like like a tea, like a tea um cocktail of some kind. That's the one thing that I I've always like kind of griped about Woodford is um it's just a flash in the pan. Just not much it there's not much like meat to it, or substance to it, it doesn't like linger around which brings up an interesting concept.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

So you've got within uh distilleries, so within Beam, right? You've got multiple lineups within Beam itself to provide. I've got basic hum hum-ho like Woodford Reserve, then I go up to something else, then I go up to something else. I got different offerings for the different uh flavor profiles or whatever someone's looking for. Woodford, you got Woodford Reserve, double oaked, and then you jump into the master collection. Okay, like it's good, but I mean, like you got three. Is that why Brian Foreman then also has old Forester? To where they think of the two distilleries as siblings and say, hey, Woodford only has three. Now we have a different lineup, which is our old Forester, to give you a different flavor profile, because then they got the Whiskey Row series, they've got different things like that. Whereas this one, they're like, This is our Jim Bean White label. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, but they have cheaper versions in their Woodford lineup that are I like even better. Like, like I think the Woodford 86 is way more of my jam, or I'm sorry, Old Forster 86. Okay, it's like Woodford 86. What do they have? Old Forester 86, which is cheaper and and everything, is better than this. Like, I love that bottle. The 86. And then they have a hundred proof, a bottle in bottom, a hundred-proof, and we're talking like cheap. I mean, in the 30s for those, and then you get into the whiskey row series, but those old Woodfords are uh old foresters, old foresters.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

Old Woodford would be interesting. Old Woodford would be, you know, why not? I know, right? We're already in bed together. Why not have an old Woodford there?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Like that even sounds good. Old Woodford, Woodford Wood Woodfoot, Woodfoot, Woodfoot Woodford, old Woodford?

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Old Woodfood.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

What's that from? I don't know. I don't think it's from that movie. That's from a movie. Old Woolfoot? Yeah, old Woodfoot. What movie?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

I don't know. That's the guy's name. I think Woodfoot? No, it's Woodford, but he says it like that with that accent. Woodfoot. It's like a Woolfred? No. Uh it's gonna come to me.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

It's from a movie. I hope it comes to you because I don't know what this is.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

So Woodford doesn't have much of a history.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

No, I guess we can say and this is what's interesting about Woodford to me is that this came out in '96. So this is before the the bourbon craze. This is early on. But Woodford does not have. I mean, I guess it's part of Brown Foreman, so they have uh well drinks and stuff. But Woodford, that brand, does not have a well version. This is the cheapest thing. They don't go any cheaper than this, yeah. Yeah, so like this is your which is why I think that it became a premium brand because they didn't have a cheap version of it. Now this is a cheap thing, but for people every day. This is your shelfer, always on there. You can mix it, you can drink it straight.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

But that brings up a good point because it's a big distillery, and they only have what this double oaked, and like their special thing.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

They tried their weeded, they tried the single malt.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

They have their so specialty things, yeah. Yeah, their single malt is all I guess. They do have this single malt and the rye, which kind of they have the rye and the weeded then, because they also tried a weeded, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

They do, yeah. But on the shelves today, I've only ever seen that they do have a rye, they still have the malted rye, which is their version of the single malt kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Because I think they call it an American or they call it. Yeah, they don't even call it an American or yeah. Rye. It's malted rye. Malted rye, yeah. Which is like one of the only rye that I absolutely hate is Woodford rye. Yeah, there's been some that I don't like, but that one's one of them that don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

And so they just don't have like a basic offering. Their basic offering is their premium offering, but they don't do a lot of experimental or different things. They they're kind of this is what we are, and this is the end of it. I don't know what else is made at their distillery, and now that Brown Foreman owns it, I don't know if they're being used for other things or whatever else. But to have a name this big be kind of standalone is a little bit impressive in that way.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

And so would you guys uh when you guys hear Woodford, what's the mash bill that comes to your mind?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I expect it's more weeded. It's it's a pretty friendly bottle. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more rye in there than we realize. I think there is rye in it, but I think it's more of a weeded.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

It's uh it's it's uh it's considered a high rye mash bill. Uh it's 72 corn, 18 rye, and 10 barley. So no wheat. Oh, okay. Which I I did not expect because I always thought that's weed, it's a weed, it's gotta be more of a weeded with how how friendly it is, yeah, and how much people gravitate towards.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

We said that earlier that it was gonna be the weeded. I was like, I don't know. Because you said there's I was like, which right weed maker's mark for sure, but I was like, I don't think Woodford's very weeded at all. I remember thinking it was more rye back in the day because we talked about it.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

Maybe back in the day. Okay, so if you can separate it. But can you separate out back in the day and now? So if you had a back in the day, uh you it's a bit more potent, it's a bit more not stingy, it's a bit more like it's on the palate.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

But I just remember I have I remember having conversations about it, and I even think when they came out their rye, we talked about the fact that they just added more rye, yeah. They just added more rye to it, right? But what's interesting is like it does that's not helping it because like I am a rye guy, and there's not it's not like the rye. I you should know, like, hey, this is rye, you know what I mean? Like, but um it's not really doing that anything for it. I think it still sticks with that. Um it could be a high rye bourbon, but it's just a basic bourbon.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

When you were first starting out in the bourbon world and you were starting to drink, and you said you had a lot of this, why did you have a lot of it then? I think I was transitioning the flavor that you liked.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I was transitioning into the probably more into rise and and more. I will say, if like right now to us, we're going on and on about this being basic and whatever. But I think when you are first starting out and like you are not used to drinking a ton of stuff, this is more A, it's more quality, but B, it does have more flavor than we're giving it credit. What it really doesn't have is a whole lot of lasting flavor, right? And we've tried stuff that is just such a, and that just goes to show you that some things we've tried that we've liked, other people would try and just be completely like like it would just knock them on the floor. Like they and they wouldn't be, they wouldn't like it, you know what I mean, because it's just too much too soon. But I do remember drinking this back in the day and being like, this is just so good, so basic, the right price, the right flavor that I'm looking for. It's the what right quality I'm looking for. You know what I mean? Like, and I think you might even appreciate the fact that it doesn't linger when you're new, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

I think when you're new, then that's that's the kind of the thing that's missing from your basic bottles overall is a lasting finish. You tend to not have a lot of that, which I think is a good thing if you're just starting out, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:39

And also something to look for when you're looking for a good quality cheap bottle. Like, like as an experienced guy, what makes a good bottle, like a cheap bottle, a good bottle, that's one of the aspects, is like, hey, this thing lasts, it has a finish and it's $20, you know what I mean, or whatever. Like, this is a good bottle, you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

What you know, there's a few things, Steve. You asked, why would you go after this as a young guy, like a uh a newbie? Yeah, if you knew the history of the story behind it or what they did specifically, I would say this is a bang for your buck bottle. Yeah, it's uh all the bottles there, it's a no-age statement on it, if I remember right, but supposedly it's a seven-year-old bottle. Not only that, but we're in Kentucky, right? So Kentucky's great at this idea of uh temperature fluctuation. We've got hot, cold, hot, cold, and that's what kind of brings out flavor, that's what changes things in the barrel. They're very dead set on we let it fluctuate, go hot, hot, hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold. They do not they have a heat controlled, a temperature, temperature-controlled warehouse for all of their barrels. So during the winter, they turn up the heat. So it's very consistent. The idea is that it's consistent and it brings about more of a rapid aging. So I think that's what as a as a newbie, you try this and you're like, yeah, it's it's high rye. Like it's got some spice to it, it's got a little bit of bite to it, but if I'm thinking as uh not dark as it is, I would never suspect seven years on that guy. No, uh flavor wise, seven years. Flavor wise, I go it's one, it's it's one noted, it ends very quickly. It it's not complex, it's not complex. It hits that kind of maybe a little bit more agey kind of feel without being extremely agey. It's more smooth, end quote smooth when you talk about all throughout.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

I I think with the notes that it does have, the flavors that it does have is are done well. There's just not a lot of them, and they're not very complex. And there's a lot of what you do get is a lot of wood. If you were to if you were to say what's the overwhelming amount of flavor that you're getting, not that there's a lot of wood in this, but I would say that probably somewhere around like the 65 to 70 percent of the flavor is is wood from the barrel, and then you get a little bit of vanilla, I think. Uh what the quin with very basic barb uh brown sugar, caramel, vanilla, yep, the basic bourbon notes, nothing surprising there. Yeah, um, and then there's there's a little bit of rye, and there is the rye is in there, it's detectable, it's just not not not anything more than a condimental kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Bring up the uh an interesting idea of it being wood, like uh more woody kind of feel, and that's what I would pair with like a Johnny Walker blue, like very like oaky, very woody. This is kind of that oak wood that I would expect out of a Johnny Walker blue, but not at the price tag of a Johnny Walker Blue. So if I'm like if I'm thinking back to this idea of Burbon 101, like what am I gonna go after? What bottles are are basic enough but solid enough to go after? I I will spend my time crapping on Woodford and on Buffalo Trace because it's out of my wheelhouse, it's not out of my wheelhouse. I'm out of its wheelhouse nowadays. But if I'm thinking back to when we first started, this is one that we liked. I would probably boast about because it does have that that it has that premium, what you're talking about before, Steve, of that premium flavor, that premium feel without the premium price tag nowadays. Right, it's not the premium price tag now.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

If you went over to somebody's house and they poured this for you, you'd be like, Oh Woodford.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Yeah. Can I have a pipe and cigar with this, please?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

I think uh what's interesting is that after now that I've made that point, typically, if you're smart, you improve upon what you do best. So Woodford double oaked makes sense because the oak is what's shining here, the wood. Uh, and they just doubled it up. And that's probably why Woodford double oaked is really good.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Well, and what fascinates me is people don't realize that Woodford double oaked is a toasted barrel, yeah, and the the old forester very fine, I believe, is is toasted as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

But but they put them in two barrels, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:18

They put them in two barrels. But when you talk about wood for reserve already being the the the flavor of extreme oak because of how they age it and how they store it and the time length of time that they go for, and then they're going, okay, this is extremely oaky. Let's put it in a toasted barrel, let's put it in something that's not as heavy and more light and let it finish in that. You're not gonna find another bottle like wood for double oaked, right? Even though it's a toasted barrel, you won't park it. You're not gonna find that flavor at all. The wood, but then some of the wood is softened right, and yeah, it's and you it's almost like you go from oak, like really like oak wood, to almost more like cherry, like a little bit softer cherry.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

It's not like people think it's not as easy as dumping it in one bottle and then dumping it or one barrel and then dumping it in another barrel. It's there's more to it than it's more nuance to it to than that. And then it comes across in the flavor. Uh but I think they, yeah, they I think they capitalized on what they were doing well with Woodford, and they just made Woodford better. It's Woodford, Woodford double oaked is Woodford plus like 0.2%, you know what I mean? 2.0 or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

If they were to listen to us in our opinion, I would say get rid of the malt whiskey. Get rid of everything that's not right, get rid of the weed, stick with Woodford Reserve, double oaked in your master's collection.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Woodford, and then they should do Woodford double oaked, and then they should do some Woodford double oaked finishings. Why the hell not? You could even do some regular Woodford finishings as well. But I would like a double-oaked cognac cask, kiss my ass. That sounds great, right? Doesn't it? Like, please have that be the name of the bottle.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Yeah, cognac cask, kiss my ass. That sounds great. I'd be like, Yeah, let's just let's just do this, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Let's just do that, and then let's do some mint julep stuff, you know, like more than what they're doing. They could do some other things. Because do they actually bottle a mint julep? Yeah, not Woodford. Well, they they've had pre-made stuff before, yeah. Oh, yeah, they put it out. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

I don't know that I've ever seen it.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

I've never seen that. I've seen like the logo and like the things on the label, but it's just this with a different label.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I'm almost positive I've seen some pre-made stuff come out that like in the in the um the selection, like the area of the store where you get like the liqueurs and pre-made stuff. Yeah, I've seen some. I'm almost positive I've seen some, and that came with like cups, like and everything. That's that's old Forster. You're thinking of Old Forster. Came with the cups?

SPEAKER_04 36:48

Yeah, old Forster doesn't mean julips that come with the cups, the metal cups. Yeah, the julep cups.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Maybe you're right.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Maybe you're right. Well, I get that Woodford doesn't come out with its own cups, it's another that's another like you talk about collectible.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

So, okay, we're talking classy, right? We're talking premium. Steve brought up the idea that they have always and will be premium selection. No one will think of uh of Woodford as a well. What they do is they do a uh a um gift box, yeah, but it's Woodford engraved glasses, like rock's glasses.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

They don't foolish. That's foolish. If if I was Woodford, every year I would come out with a bottle and maybe two uh uh steel or aluminum glasses engraved with the dates for the for the race. Would you consider that classy? So collectible, dude.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

Well, would you consider that premium and classy?

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Yeah, if they did it right. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're known for their mint juleps. So if you don't lean into the mint julep, then that's people would mislead.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

They collect blands, yeah, tops. You know what I mean? Uh, I think coming out with your own glass, like your own, and I would say that the stainless steel ones, because you've seen those, they come in those stainless steel, and uh and just engrave them, and then every year you get 2016, 2017, 2018, 20. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 38:09

I think they should do like ceramic, like mug kind of glass, but like the mint julep style. Yeah, that would be classy. That'd be day classic.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

I just like the uh those aluminum, like like the R 10 cup ones, you know what I mean? Yeah, and uh honestly, and that kind of cocktail goes so well in those because you put ice in it and it sweats and it's effing cold in the summertime, you know. You throw a metal straw in there or whatever, and you're like, this is a good little cocktail. I've had a um what do you call that? A mint uh uh what do you is it a mai tie? Mint julep? No, it was a is it a mite? No, not a mai tie. What do you mean by a mojito the wood the rum, yeah? Dude, mojitos in a like aluminum cup or a stainless steel cup is where it's at, dude. Nice and like almost icy cold, you know, icy. It's good stuff. Have you guys ever watched the Kentucky Derby?

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, you guys watch every year.

SPEAKER_04 39:02

I've got friends, uh Mary and I have friends of ours that live in New Albany, Indiana, which is right across the bridge from uh Louisville, right? Because that's where the Kentucky is, yeah. And she grew up in Louisville, so she grew up every year going to the Kentucky Derby. Like she wear the fancy hat. She would tell stories that school would let out during that week. It would almost be like our spring break kind of thing. They would let out during the week, and all the local they would go throughout the week for the normal run, the races, and that would be their state fair almost or you know, and then it got so popular that people were like, Okay, let's come before, let's come before, let's come before. And so now it's like the week of, yeah, even if you're local, it's like we can't get in. Right. But she was like, It's it's it's wonderful. Like it used to be this amazing, beautiful thing. We could see all the horses, now it's just become so popularized that, like, if you're local, you still can't get in to see anything.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

I was my dad's a big horse race guy, he likes to watch the horse races and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Does he like to bet on the horse races?

SPEAKER_02 40:05

I mean a little bit, but not much. He's not a big better, not like his life saving more. Yeah, he's not a gambler, but it's big, it's probably because like my my grandpa raced horses doing like the the uh the harness racing. So the the the trailer behind kind of deal. Um, so that's what that's what it he normally watches, is that the uh harness racing. But last year two two, three years ago, during the Kentucky Derby, I remember I was with my mom and dad and my sister, and we went out to dinner someplace, and they had it on the TV. And my sister, this is the first time that she ever actually watched the derby. Like I said, this is like three or four years ago, it wasn't that long. And she watched it and she was so angry at the end of it because it's a 30-second horse race. Oh, yeah. If you don't want to do it, it's over, yeah. And so she's like, all of this pomp and circumstance for 30 seconds of horse racing, and she was just like, This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life. She was so angry.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

That's a lot of things are like that in life, all the stuff leading up to something that takes 20 seconds and it's over.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

It's I mean, there's races going all day, so like there's always races going, but there's the actual derby that's just one race, it's just part of the day and stuff. That was always like it was just mind-boggling that this horse race was just that. It's just a couple of laps around a rink, and that's the end.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

You know what though, Steve? That's a very good point. And you could that you could make that statement about life.

unknown 41:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

Of being disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

No, no, no, no. About how all this buildup and all this pop and circumstance, all these things, and then some of the biggest things in life happen so quick, you blink and it's over. Yeah, you know, like that's true though, right? And I think that that's what makes them so important. Absolutely, and that is something to be celebrated. That's why you wait all year for the Kentucky Derby because it is a 30-second thing. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

When you got married, there was a whole day affair, but the ceremony was 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

And you barely remember it. Yeah, it goes by like a flash. Yeah, it's the some of the best things in life are over before you know it, and you only have a a chance to touch them, and they're before you know it, they're they're through your fingers, you know what I mean? And but I think that's what makes them special. And if you had them all the time, you wouldn't appreciate it. You would not appreciate it as much if the if the Kentucky Derby was a two-hour race, right? Right? If there was 500 laps around around the track, like freaking NASCAR. I wonder what they're gonna do now. Turn left. Well, look, we turned took another life. But I I I uh I think that that's what makes it special, and I think that's that's you hit on something that's yeah, with bourbon and life and bottles and and all sorts of things. Uh, I think certain bottles you crack open knowing that you're never gonna have this again or it can never be made again. I think about the orphan barrels. Yeah, it's a fleeting memory. Of uh like this is a one and a done, you know what I mean? And uh special, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

I feel like the older you get, the more you understand that concept, and the more you appreciate that concept. Like, I feel like you and I, Chris, talked about this the other day of like you have bottles that you replace in your collection. There's one bottle that I have I can think of off the top of my head that I have replaced time and time again, and that's LaFroy or Long Valentine 16. That's it. Other than that, every bottle is almost this uh fleeting experience, this fleeting memory. It's gonna change depending on who's there or what is you know is happening. This is a this might be a once in a lifetime experience that we have, and we're done. But we'll remember that. You know what I mean? It's the Kentucky Derby, it's it's one and done. Chris and I have finished uh this month or the past. Month and a half, we finished off two bottles. We opened and finished two bottles. It was like, we may not get those again, but it was the moment, it was the the conversation, you know what I mean? That is the the derby, you know what I mean? And that's that's what makes that special. I get it, it's annoying when you first started like oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

I for her it was annoying because she doesn't even like it, right? But like it's done. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

But that's what makes it, yeah. That's what makes it if you don't watch it, you'll miss it, right? Yeah, and I think that that is something there's something to be said for that, but that is cool, but it's also funny, and I agree with her that that is a lot for a 20-second anything, right? Like, hey, can we at least make it like two minutes? All of a sudden, two minutes, all of a sudden two minutes seems like a very long time.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

Yeah, yeah. So as a as a 101 idea, is this is this a bottle that you so I think about bourbon 101 on the last episode we did with the WAPSE of uh we think of this idea of bourbon bean, yellow den corn, and then something else, right? And then the the the last bottle challenged that idea with it's not yellow den corn, it's something else. It's it's it's a variant of corn. This is very basic for a 101. But why would you recommend this for a 101? Would you?

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Because it's basic, I would. Okay, like that's kind of your goal when you're first starting to get into it. You don't want these unique bottles when you're first starting out because you have to figure out what is unique, and so you don't know what the basic is to know what makes this unique one special. I think this bottle is one it does a good job of showing off of what just bourbon is, just kind of a straight this is you can taste the corn, you can taste a little bit of the spice. Um and it doesn't stick around, which when you're if your goal is to learn, that's kind of a good thing because you can't linger on it. You gotta like figure this out now. Like the derby. Yeah, like the derby. That's the reason they sparse on the derbies because they don't they also last 20 seconds.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right.

unknown 46:25

Fair.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

It's good price without being overcomplicated, uh, good quality without being over overdone, uh, like like what you were saying, Steve, where it's gonna linger, linger, linger. Um, and I think for all those reasons, yeah, it's it's it's a it falls into the 101 category. Yeah. Uh it falls into like for one of the first premium bottles in your collection crack category at the time. Like when, well, I mean, I don't know now, but like at the time when you're spending $20, $30 on a bottle that and this one's closer to $50, you're like, yeah, this is a premium bottle, you know, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

But and it still isn't, it's not a well. It's not like a cheap bottle. You have you have some of those premium qualities that you could start to start to identify some flavors and start to think about some of that without having to worry about the uh like just the acetone kind of flavor that you can get.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

You can get everywhere too. Uh, this is one of those, uh we didn't really hit on this, you know, but yeah, this is one of those bottles that could be your brand. Yes. Like I am a Woodford guy. Hey, when you go to a bar, hey, do you got Woodford? Yeah, you can get it everywhere, right? When you go home, if you didn't want to be one of those guys that like drank all the different things, you were just like brand loyal, you could be a Woodford guy and never go past it. And just when I come home, I drink two fingers of Woodford and that's it. Or when I go to the bar, hey, I got can I get a Woodford neat? You know what I mean? Or that could be your thing, you know what I mean? It's it's like Jim Beam is for that. Like I'm my my poppy. We always said Poppy was a was a was a beam guy, he was a Jim Beam guy. He drank Jim Beam, that's what he did. That's all he drank was Jim Beam. And that's my dad said that, and that was it. So Woodford, you could be a Woodford guy, you know, like Nick drinks Woodford, you know, like that's what he drinks. Yeah. So if you wanted to be one of those people, too, you could, it's got its place for that. You know what I mean? You could be that guy. And I think that that's what makes Woodford Woodford, right? Uh, is all those different aspects, and all that for a good price. Yeah. One-on-one, Woodford. It works. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

Till next time, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Till next time.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychasterspumba.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.